xpost: Bilingual hs through high school?

[Renai]

Has anyone done it through high school? How did you count the LOE (Language Other than English) vs a foreign language? Was a subject done in the LOE or did you only concentrate on grammar?? Was it done in addition to or in lieu of a foreign language? Basically, how did you do it?

[In The Great White North]

We did not homeschool in two languages all along, but at some point dd's German was good enough to be useful.  Senior year, she did physics in German.  Turns out the same Halliday book people talk about here is also available in German, and I already had the English to refer to if we had problems.  There were no problems, as the only German  she didn't get involved cognates that I remembered from physics in English.

 

On her resume, I simply put in German next to the textbook.

[Renai]

For a little more information, the state has recently allowed for a bilingual designation on high school diplomas (for ps), but I plan on working a similar plan. My 9th grader will be using MFW Ancients this year.   For English lit, she will be reading The Epic of Gilgamesh, Cat of Bubastes, Bulfinch's Greek and Roman Mythology, The Iliad, The Odyssey, parts of the Bible, and the biography Eric Liddell.

 

Technically, one of the classes she's taking should be in Spanish, like math or history or such. Reality is, it won't happen that way. My plan so far for her Spanish LA is read some complementary literature suggested in MFW, but in Spanish. From the library I can get Perelandra by C.S. Lewis, the Golden Fleece and Aesop's Fables in Spanish. The plan was to write essays (in Spanish) on different themes, comparing to the lit, Bible or History being read in English. I also have a Spanish 9th grade grammar from Santillana to work on, and considered current event papers (like a page) every couple of weeks or so.

 

Does this look like enough for a Spanish LA credit? Is anything missing? She will be doing quite a bit of essay writing in English as well, and don't want to overload her.

 

 

[Renai]

We did not homeschool in two languages all along, but at some point dd's German was good enough to be useful.  Senior year, she did physics in German.  Turns out the same Halliday book people talk about here is also available in German, and I already had the English to refer to if we had problems.  There were no problems, as the only German  she didn't get involved cognates that I remembered from physics in English.

 

On her resume, I simply put in German next to the textbook.

 

Thanks for the reply. That is cool she was able to do physics in German (I didn't even get to it in English, lol!). I'm thinking these next two years will be harder as I'm using mostly a put-together curriculum, but the last two years, I will be able to have more flexibility in which class to do in Spanish. She wants to learn French, so I asked if she'd like to learn French in Spanish- she said, sure! Just not enough hours in the day...

[In The Great White North]

I wasn't really looking for a bilingual designation of any sort - just trying to kill two birds with one stone.

 

How about this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/GEOMETRIA-MODERNA-JURGENSEN/dp/B00DXFCSHC/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1410542271&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=dolciani+algebra+spanish

[chiguirre]

Hey, they have Baldor's Algebra book. Dh used that in high school and edition with the guy with the turban is still on the shelf in my in-law's house. It's a classic!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Algebra-Spanish-Baldor/dp/9708170003/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1410542470&sr=1-1&keywords=algebra+espanol

[Arcadia]

For a little more information, the state has recently allowed for a bilingual designation on high school diplomas (for ps)

.....

 

Technically, one of the classes she's taking should be in Spanish, like math or history or such. Reality is, it won't happen that way. My plan so far for her Spanish LA is read some complementary literature suggested in MFW, but in Spanish.

 

If Spanish is the only subject done in Spanish, I won't think of it as a bilingual high school diploma. What difference would it be from another public school high school student doing AP Spanish? Or a high school student doing more than one world languages?

 

Besides reading literature in Spanish, how about being able to translate comfortably and with decent accuracy from one language to another both verbal and written.

 

An example of a school timetable for a private bilingual German K-12 school. You can see at the bottom of the webpage that Math, Physics, Music, Art is done in German while Geography, History, Biology and Chemistry are done in both languages.

 

http://www.gissv.org/podium/default.aspx?t=145065

[Renai]

If Spanish is the only subject done in Spanish, I won't think of it as a bilingual high school diploma. What difference would it be from another public school high school student doing AP Spanish? Or a high school student doing more than one world languages?

 

Besides reading literature in Spanish, how about being able to translate comfortably and with decent accuracy from one language to another both verbal and written.

 

An example of a school timetable for a private bilingual German K-12 school. You can see at the bottom of the webpage that Math, Physics, Music, Art is done in German while Geography, History, Biology and Chemistry are done in both languages.

 

http://www.gissv.org/podium/default.aspx?t=145065

 

She's done different subjects in Spanish throughout her educational career (K-2 were mostly all Spanish, with science and social studies 50/50). I could call it Heritage Spanish- which is what it is called for native speakers here - but although raised in a Spanish household and is a native speaker, she's not Hispanic. I don't know if that would make a difference.

 

I don't know what AP Spanish looks like, I'd have to look that up. But, she's not learning Spanish, she is a native speaker. She translates just fine from either language to the other. I considered comparing literature from two different languages and writing it up in one as a type of translation. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

Just brainstorming here...

 

I could have supplementary materials for history- there are plenty in the library for various civilizations, myths, and legends- and I've been trying to convince her to supplement her Apologia biology with a Spanish version of Miller-Levine biology (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0133687201/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=64JBLN7BHWBM&coliid=I3D9GRSD262B69). I cannot do math in Spanish. I switched to English when she was in 4th because I could no longer teach it in my second language (and she requires teaching). She has a Bible credit in the MFW curriculum. She actually reads that in Spanish already, but the questions are in English, so don't know how to work that, unless she's just going to write out the answers in Spanish.

 

I'm starting this so late in the game...

 

ETA: I see on the German site, they have both languages LA, as well as bilingual classes. So, maybe keep the SLA as I have it (oh, forgot I also have a myths and legends of Latin America book I'll be using too), and supplementing the science and history as noted above. We'll figure out Bible as she feels comfortable going along.

[Renai]

I wasn't really looking for a bilingual designation of any sort - just trying to kill two birds with one stone.

 

How about this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/GEOMETRIA-MODERNA-JURGENSEN/dp/B00DXFCSHC/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1410542271&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=dolciani+algebra+spanish

 

Yes, this is how it should be - killing two birds with one stone. She'd feel comfortable doing math in Spanish, but alas, I don't feel comfortable teaching it in Spanish, and she needs the teaching part.

[Arcadia]

She's done different subjects in Spanish throughout her educational career (K-2 were mostly all Spanish, with science and social studies 50/50). I could call it Heritage Spanish- which is what it is called for native speakers here - but although raised in a Spanish household and is a native speaker, she's not Hispanic. I don't know if that would make a difference.

 

I don't know what AP Spanish looks like, I'd have to look that up.

 

I think you are looking at a dual immersion diploma rather than a bilingual diploma because I honestly do not know how the states interpret/define the term "bilingual".  Maybe check out how your school district defines it?  AP Spanish is likely to be very easy for a native speaker.

 

This is copied from a California school district with Spanish dual immersion for K-12

"Grades 6 - 12

• Spanish Language Arts
• Spanish Social Studies or Science
• English Mainstream Classes"

This link in Spanish is to LAUSD (Los Angeles) dual immersion program

 

You are not late in the game.  I don't know the difference between LOTE and foreign/world language.  For UC (California) anything other than English would be in the category of LOTE.  As in I won't need to declare that my kids are native Chinese speakers taking Chinese for high school if and when they apply to state schools.

[Renai]

I think you are looking at a dual immersion diploma rather than a bilingual diploma because I honestly do not know how the states interpret/define the term "bilingual".  Maybe check out how your school district defines it?  AP Spanish is likely to be very easy for a native speaker.

 

This is copied from a California school district with Spanish dual immersion for K-12

"Grades 6 - 12

• Spanish Language Arts
• Spanish Social Studies or Science
• English Mainstream Classes"

This link in Spanish is to LAUSD (Los Angeles) dual immersion program

 

You are not late in the game.  I don't know the difference between LOTE and foreign/world language.  For UC (California) anything other than English would be in the category of LOTE.  As in I won't need to declare that my kids are native Chinese speakers taking Chinese for high school if and when they apply to state schools.

 

Ok, after a bit more research...

 

Well, I think you've hit part of the problem: there is not specific criteria -yet- on awarding a bilingual seal. There are various bilingual programs, including dual immersion, but so far the only known factor of the seal is that it will be awarded to graduates who are "proficient in speaking and writing a language other than English." This is New Mexico, so Spanish and any number of Native American languages can be included (NM is a bilingual Spanish/English state by constitution). 

 

The bilingual seal was just passed through legislature this past spring, and a taskforce was just put together to start this fall in determining specific criteria for the bilingual designation.

 

My original plan listed above was cobbled together from syllabi from other heritage Spanish courses (not in this state), and focused mostly on grammar and writing (from a native text), literature and composition that ties into the English and history, and current events. That actually is a little more than what the district considers for a Language for Native Speakers class. I think I will stick with just that for this year. That gives me time to plan the rest of the high school years!

 

To qualify as a bilingual program, Spanish and whatever core done in Spanish has to be taught by a bilingual-endorsed teacher. I've already passed the test and am one class away from getting the endorsement (I'm already licensed). According to state, a Enrichment/Heritage program can be either 1 hour or 2 hours a day. A 1 hr only has Spanish LA, the 2 hr is Spanish LA and a bilingual core content. So, I think I should just stay with the LA until I finish my endorsement (this year), so it will count for something more.

 

Of course, as a homeschooler, I can do my own thing, but, ya know...

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

As for us, the kids (native French speakers) are doing all their schooling in English via Kolbe Academy. I've retained only one class: French literature, which I sometimes list as French as 1st language, or French Literature.  I've given up on doing stuff in French, as the course offering is too limited.  :(

[Mabelen]

I would keep an eye on whatever the actual requirements end up being for the bilingual seal and go with that. If you meet them, use the bilingual designation, otherwise I would just state what we did in Spanish and let the University decide its worth.

 

Dual immersion does not refer to fewer hours in one or other language as opposed to bilingual, but simply to the fact that about half of the students will be language 1 native speakers, so they act as role models, and the other half not. There are several bilingual/dual language immersion models used in different programs. I work in an elementary school where we use a dual language immersion model that has K and 1st using 90% of the instructional day in Spanish, 10% English. The percentages change until we hit 5th grade with 50% 50%. When they get to Middle School they can have Social Studies and Science in Spanish. At this moment there is no special programming at the High School level other than AP Spanish Language and AP Spanish Literature. If they were so inclined they could take both and/or another language depending on their graduation requirements.

[Renai]

I would keep an eye on whatever the actual requirements end up being for the bilingual seal and go with that. If you meet them, use the bilingual designation, otherwise I would just state what we did in Spanish and let the University decide its worth.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Yes, this is what I'm going to have to do. I don't know if you saw my above post, but just doing a Spanish LA is all that is needed to be considered a type of bilingual program here in New Mexico (the one hour/day Enrichment/Heritage - I'm already familiar with the different types of bilingual programs, what I did through elementary would be considered dual language, not dual immersion). I would really like to get more in though, but at this rate would be (semi) happy getting the minimum...whatever that minimum turns out to be.

 

I imagine there would need to be some kind of test eventually. I don't see it happening for kids that will be graduating in 2015 though. There is La Prueba, which all teachers have to take to become endorsed. I considered having dd take that just for score purposes. But, I have time to figure it out. I should probably stop busting my brains over this...

 

Ok, I can't stop. If I only do Spanish LA, for some reason it doesn't look like enough literature/reading is being done. 

 

This is what I have on hand to relate to ancient history (or similar themes, for the most part):

 

- De oro y esmeralda- mitos, leyendas, y cuentos populares de Latino America (myths, legends, and popular stories from Latin America) by Lulu Delacre

- El vellocino de oro (the Golden Fleece) by Felix Lope de Vega, published in Spain

- Perelandra by C.S. Lewis

- El mundo antiguo de Egipto, a DK book. I can get more on different civilizations from the library

- En Espanol 9 (Puerto Rican edition- grammar, writing)

 

I imagine some crossover with what we're studying in history and English as well. I also still stuck on this idea of short current event summaries.

[Brad S]

We're in a somewhat similar situation for high school next year. I would not read works in Spanish that were translated from English (e.g., CS Lewis), assuming DC can read it in English. A lot is likely to get lost in translation. On the other hand, if you can find good translations of works from a third language into Spanish, that would seem to work.

 

I'm not sure what the benefit would be of a "bilingual diploma." Maybe that would have some special meaning somewhere, but I have not heard of that carrying special meaning. As for actually becoming more capable in Spanish, it would seem that a variety of spoken and written interactions would help, in addition to formal language and literature studies. The AP Spanish Language and Culture would seem to carry some meaning, although very modest in itself. Apparently, the course was recently restructured to de-emphasize or eliminate grammar from a second-language learner perspective, and to replace it with cultural studies and culturally-aware communication; that would seem to make it a more valuable course for someone who grew up speaking Spanish at home, by making them more aware of different parts of the Spanish-speaking world. It wouldn't seem a bit effort to pull off at home.

 

The AP Spanish Language and Culture course seems, at first glance, to be somewhat comparable to a solid high school English literature course, and would seem to demonstrate a fairly sophisticated facility with Spanish, maybe enough to make DC roughly ready to undertake college studies in Spanish (albeit with a few bumps learning math, science, etc. terms in Spanish, although those technical terms are very similar across the two languages). Again, a lot depends upon what you want to demonstrate by DC's high school studies. How has it been going?

[Joan in GE]

As for us, the kids (native French speakers) are doing all their schooling in English via Kolbe Academy. I've retained only one class: French literature, which I sometimes list as French as 1st language, or French Literature.  I've given up on doing stuff in French, as the course offering is too limited.  :(

 

 

The problem I ran into with doing bilingual coursework was 1. book selection, 2. planning, and sometimes the 3. testing and grades.

 

So you can find some of the books that are recommended here on the WTM forums translated into French - e.g. Campbell Biology (the BIG one)...which means you could find some of the solution books in English (as they haven't translated those).

 

And some math books have been translated into French, so it is possible to find the solution books and even test questions (e.g. Swokowski - Algebra and Trig, Calculus).

 

But if the program doesn't have problem selection - then you run into problems...Eg for Precalculus, I wanted a schedule that would take dc through the program doing block scheduling. But I didn't find that for a translated book. We had tried doing Algebra II with an unrealistic problem selection and dd ran into a lot of problems keeping pace....and didn't work as hard. If she knows what she's supposed to do, then she tends to work in a more focused manner.

 

Then I had Economics books recommended for the local school system (in French) but didn't have comprehension questions that had the answers, nor did I have tests (nor of course answers)...

 

In the past I did make tests for Geography in French - that took a lot of work! And then the grading of the tests that I made - I had no clue if my questions were too hard, too easy or just right...

 

There was a time where I didn't want to use all the questions in our grammar tests and so would try to construct questions that were basically the same just with different subjects, etc....I find test-making and grading to be the worst aspect of home education...

 

With Spanish, there are probably more home ed materials, but there is a paucity of good home ed materials for French...(as C Q says)...

[Renai]

I did not get notified that there were more responses to this thread.

 

Many of the things I asked at the beginning of the thread became a moot point because she auditioned and was accepted into a performing arts charter school. They only had the option of taking Spanish as a second language. They wanted her to take those classes, and I told them it was equivalent of them placing native English speakers in an ESL class. I refused to allow her to take the class this year, but they said she would need something eventually. Whether she takes something elsewhere and transfers the credits or whatnot. At this point, I think I am going to have dd take the Spanish language CLEP this summer and see how she does. It will work in her favor whether she stays at this school, or comes home for the rest of high school.

 

Joan, I couldn't do math in Spanish past 4th grade, even though there were books. I would want to do everything - explanations and all - in Spanish, and I couldn't. Higher level math is outsourced. There are some options for Spanish texts in other subject areas, so yes it would be easier as far as getting resources in Spanish. I found Spanish LA texts, but feel I need the tg that are difficult to find and purchase. I have also found a science and world history in Spanish. 

 

Brad, I realize that native Spanish literature is better, but I am also opportunistic. I will accept what I can get, and if it happens to be a translation, so be it. I've searched for years (not lately) for that elusive list of classic Spanish works - or, I should say, classics written by Spanish-speaking authors (not just Spaniards). Maybe it's out there now (I just now googled and found some sites, actually). But, then, I'd need help determining what level/grade they are appropriate for. I did find a couple of schools with their reading lists online for heritage Spanish. I need to dig those up again. My ideal would be to hire a Spanish tutor to do LA with her, but I haven't found the type of tutor I would need.

 

Decisions, decisions.

[Loesje22000]

We don't have a seal, and I live in Europe what makes things different, and we plan to continue homeschooling bilingually.

Dutch is the mother tongue, English the second language, French and German are foreign languages (we just do language arts and literature for these two)

 

As I'm raised in the Netherlands it seems odd to me to read a book in translation other then your mothertongue.

So for spanish I would expect you read books originally written in Spanish.

But that is my culture.

 

What we do:

In Dutch:

Part of Math, Part of History, Latin, Greek, Literature (no translations)

 

In English:

Main part of math, part of History, Geography, Science, Literature (no translations)

 

French as Foreign Language

German as Foreign Language

 

We don't have transcripts, we do have exit exams in grade 12.

All the exams will be in Dutch except the oral exams for English, French and German, these will be completely in that language.

[chiguirre]

Here's a list of the works recommended for the AP Spanish Literature and Culture test.

 

http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/members/exam/exam_information/219542.html

 

At our state universities you get a lot of credits for this test, at least several classes worth more than AP Language and Culture.

 

ETA: My local cc offers Spanish courses geared to heritage speakers who need to earn a foreign language credit, but obviously, already speak Spanish. They work on grammar issues native speakers face and reading and writing formal, academic Spanish. You might be able to find something similar in your area. You place into these classes by taking the AVANT exam.

[Renai]

We don't have a seal, and I live in Europe what makes things different, and we plan to continue homeschooling bilingually.

Dutch is the mother tongue, English the second language, French and German are foreign languages (we just do language arts and literature for these two)

 

As I'm raised in the Netherlands it seems odd to me to read a book in translation other then your mothertongue.

So for spanish I would expect you read books originally written in Spanish.

But that is my culture.

 

What we do:

In Dutch:

Part of Math, Part of History, Latin, Greek, Literature (no translations)

 

In English:

Main part of math, part of History, Geography, Science, Literature (no translations)

 

French as Foreign Language

German as Foreign Language

 

We don't have transcripts, we do have exit exams in grade 12.

All the exams will be in Dutch except the oral exams for English, French and German, these will be completely in that language.

 

I totally understand this. But Spanish is my second language, although it is one of her first. Perhaps part of my problem is my own fear in trying to tackle this. My daughter would probably understand more than I do. I'll need a guide to help me help her through Spanish literature. Maybe I need to go back to school (again), this time to take Spanish literature classes. Hmmm, not a bad idea.

 

 

 

Here's a list of the works recommended for the AP Spanish Literature and Culture test.

 

http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/members/exam/exam_information/219542.html

 

At our state universities you get a lot of credits for this test, at least several classes worth more than AP Language and Culture.

 

ETA: My local cc offers Spanish courses geared to heritage speakers who need to earn a foreign language credit, but obviously, already speak Spanish. They work on grammar issues native speakers face and reading and writing formal, academic Spanish. You might be able to find something similar in your area. You place into these classes by taking the AVANT exam.

 

That's a good list. So...what do I do with it. I noted above I may need to take a Spanish lit class for myself. Or find an online AP class for dd. I think I'd rather spread the lit out over more than one year, though. It would be harder to get a modification of extended on the AP, than for CLEP. So we could CLEP language, and do literature.

 

If we can come up with a doable high school Spanish literature/language plan for homeschool, that would be awesome. I think I would need the Spanish version of Cliffs Notes for literature in order to get through it. I'd make sure to record what we do and report back here (and my blog). :D

 

Our cc also has a heritage Spanish class. They are in the evenings though, which run into her pre-pro dance classes. Periodically, they also have a grammar and comp, a literature, and/or Spanish film. There's been fewer lately, and all evening courses. :(

 

Ok, I've rambled enough. It's taken me 3 hours to get through this post since I left the house and came back...typical.

[Joan in GE]

Another problem we ran into with "other language - in this case French" textbooks is the "teacher dependency" that they have....

 

At first I just thought it was the European approach to languages...but now I've seen it in other subjects as well...esp here in CH...where the math books for the lower grades would be hopeless in a homeschool setting where typically the student needs to be able to 'self-teach' some subjects at least by having texts which explain everything. (I don't have anything against parental involvement in a subject, only realize that there are certain time constraints for many families).....

 

Another problem is "history"....in that typically the history text is very focused on the history of the country...So if you use French history books, there is thankfully a good dose of world history at the beginning, but by the modern times, it is much more French history, but little American history and of course Vice versa...This can be fascinating to be using "both" texts where you see the different national perspectives of historical events :-)...but you would then need to be reading texts in both languages and it would not strictly be a French history class.

[chiguirre]

There are a couple of composition MOOCs on Coursera. One's from Barcelona:

 

https://www.coursera.org/course/correccion

 

and one from Monterrey

 

https://www.coursera.org/course/escrituraesp

 

Neither is being offered right now, but I think they've both been offered more than once in the past so it's likely they'll open again.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

So you can find some of the books that are recommended here on the WTM forums translated into French - e.g. Campbell Biology (the BIG one)...which means you could find some of the solution books in English (as they haven't translated those).

 

 

FYI.  The German Halliday Physics book was bundled with a German version of the answer guide.