Tired of discussing every.little.thing with DCs....

[MerryAtHope]

Yes, absolutely way too much conversation. I think he's become very skilled at arguing in such a way that he won't get in trouble. It's a common stall tactic, which I find many kids learn around age 7 or 8. They know that "no" will only land them in trouble, but they become skillful little lawyers. Here are your examples and how I would respond.  

 

Example #1:

Me: Ok, get out your Latin book please.

DS: But we haven’t even done math yet. <we often do math before Latin>

Me: Yes, I know. Please get out your Latin book.

DS: Ummm, do you know it’s already 12:00? <implying it is lunchtime>

 

You're arguing. Are you choosing to disobey?

 

Example #2:

During piano practice:

<as he is playing a new piece in his Suzuki book>

Me: You should put a lift between those two phrases there.

DS: But that isn’t how the recording sounds.

 

You're arguing. Do the song as written. 

 

 

Example #3:

<I bumped the banister as I walked by with my arms full of laundry and knocked down DS’s sunglasses.>

Me: DS, please don’t put your sunglasses on top of the banister. They will get broken.

DS: Actually, those aren’t my sunglasses. They are DD’s.

Me: Ok. Please pick them up. <ETA: by "pick them up" I meant literally pick them up off the floor so I wouldn't step on them - I was not telling him to put them away; they belong in our car, so they don't really have a proper place to be inside the house>

<He picks them up and puts them BACK on the banister!>

Me: DS, please do not put those on the banister. Why would you put those on the banister when I JUST said not to put them there?

DS: You said not to put MY sunglasses on the banister. But these are DD’s.

 

Go put them (specify where you want them) with no more arguing.

 

I let my kids know that choosing to argue was choosing to disobey. Sometimes I gave them a reminder, such as simply stating, "You're arguing." Or sometimes I asked, "Are you choosing to disobey?" Choosing to disobey was the same as saying "no" to something I told them to do. "When you choose to disobey, you choose a consequence." 

 

Someone told me early on in my parenting that arguing is an act of cooperation. It takes two to argue--and by arguing back with your son and continuing the conversation, you are communicating that he is on your level and he has the authority to choose what he should and should not have to do. If you do not mean to give him this authority, don't argue with him. 

 

He is not offering you legitimate objections. He is merely stalling and/or trying to assert his right to decide rather than respecting your decision. I would cut the conversations much shorter unless he actually gives you legitimate reasons why he should or shouldn't do something. Legitimate examples might be:

 

Example 1, Latin Book:

 

I have art class at 12:30 and it's 12. Can I eat lunch now instead and do Latin later?

 

Example 2, piano practice:

 

My teacher told me to do it just like the recording. Do you still want me to use a lift here?

 

These would be legitimate petitions to do things differently than you said. They have actual information that you might not have known or that you might have forgotten about, and they are respectfully phrased--it's obvious the child intends to obey and is asking a clarifying question. 

 

HTH some!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Farrar]

:zombie: Zombie thread, guys. Funny how these get churned up sometimes...

[mamamoose]

I have only read the OP, but I personally think allowing children to question and petition everything is harmful to them. Is there a reason a speed limit is set at 25 and not 26? Not really, but it is what it is, and questioning that won't do anyone any good. I do allow questioning and often feel the same way but for certain there are times when I make it known the request is non-negotiable and because I said so! My kids are so very talkative I feel completely drained by dinner time!

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I have a child like this, and her "warning" before I move to disciplinary action is when I say "we are not going to argue about this". When I'm up for discussion, I don't say it. When I want the task done a sap, I say it. This has worked well after training.

 

For a book suggestion, you might try Soul of Discipline. It should help to convince you that these sorts of discussions are not helpful to what you are trying to achieve in your family (which I assume are things like critical thinking, self control, etc)

 

I didn't read the other replies, so I hope I'm not repeating too much!

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

:zombie: Zombie thread, guys. Funny how these get churned up sometimes...

Ack! I got bit!!!

[El...]

DH and I have decided on a middle of the road approach to "Yes, Mom/Dad" obedience.  The only time we require that immediate response is when we say a child's name to get his attention.  Whether right next to him, across the room or across the house, when I call, "Peter..." or "Elliot...", I expect to promptly hear, "Yes, Mom/Mama?"

 

At first DH was opposed to requiring the "Yes, Mom/Dad", but I asked him to listen to the adults around him and see if responding to one's name with "Yes?" was really that unreasonable.  Almost everyone says it; it is the polite way of acknowledging that you hear someone call you.  Peter calls "Mom?" about 3 kabillion times a day, and each time I respond, "Yes, Peter?"  Training him to respond the same way is simply common courtesy and preparing him to interact politely in society.

 

So, if I say:

"Peter, please go get dressed."

and Peter starts to fillibuster:

"Mom, did you know that I have three shirts with dinosaurs.  Could I wear one of those today?  No, I want to wear my guitar shirt...I think I left it out in the sandbox.  What day is today?  If it is a T day I want to wear a t-shirt..."

 

Then I break in with a kind, but firm: "Peter..." and I wait until he replies, "Yes, Mom?"  After I am sure I have his attention (rather than his mind still being off on a tangent), then I redirect him back to the task at hand: "Peter, you laid out your clothes last night, and you may not rummage through your dresser to choose something different now because we need to leave soon for speech therapy.  If you are going to want your guitar shirt tomorrow, I suggest you make sure it gets into the hamper as soon as you are dressed.  Now, I don't want any more discussion, and I want to see you hustle to get dressed like I asked."

 

Wendy

The perfect word for this dynamic: "filibuster!!"

 

OP, you are not the only one.  If you find the magic balance of encouraging growth while maintaining leadership... write a book.  You'll make a ton of money.

[El...]

Ack! I got bit!!!

What?  No!  :zombie:

[mamiof5]

In our home we talk, a lot. But, there's a time for everything, and sometimes talking just can't happen, we have to focus on doing. Otherwise we wouldn't get anything done!! And yes, we explain and discuss certain things with our kids, but not every little thing. I'd go batty :P

ETA: lol! Just read it's an old thread. Oh well! Maybe someone is needing to read about it...you never know :)

Edited April 6, 2016 by mamiof5

[OneStepAtATime]

IN CASE OTHERS CLICK HERE....

 

 

  :zombie: ZOMBIE THREAD.  LOL.   :zombie:

[abacus2]

On the Latin book thing, I would have said, "Please do what I have asked and then I will talk to you about it." 

 

I definitely sometimes tell my kids that I am not up to talking right then and put it off until tomorrow, after I eat, after math is finished, etc. 

[SereneHome]

:zombie: Zombie thread, guys. Funny how these get churned up sometimes...

 

Old thread or not, I still loved reading your response!!

[JessieC]

Your descriptions are so funny (and familiar). I've picked up some good strategies from the book "How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Your Kids Will Talk." I recommend it--I think it will help in some of these situations! I totally get it--I'm an introver too and being around my family and having to converse all day can be maddening. What about the beauty of silence, people??