"My brain won't let me"

[arcara]

I have an 11yo dd - smart, creative, out-going - but just CAN'T get get her work done in a reasonable amount of time. This has been going on for years. I've thought of it as a behavior problem (laziness) and tried both rewards and punishments to improve things without success. Today when I was talking to her and asking why she just can't get her work done - all she had completed was math the whole morning - and she said, "my brain won't let me." She said that she's always thinking about other things. I've heard her say something like this before and didn't think twice about it, but now I'm wondering if she actually has a problem, like ADD, and she can't help it?

 

Does this sound familiar to anyone who has experience? How do I know if she has a problem or not? And then what do we do about it?

 

Thanks so much!

[PeterPan]

Uh yup.  Same age too.  Get the evals and be done with it.  Totally changed our lives.  I had heard of the labels (like you), but I didn't realize all the details a neuropsychologist would test for.  We ended up getting shocked by her scores on processing speed, word retrieval, motor automaticity, etc., things we had NO CLUE about.  

 

Fwiw, that same child is becoming a pleasure to work with.  We're constantly using the info from those evals to tweak how we work together and problem solve and get peace.  

 

I tell the story (because it's true), that for the 1st year after a professional told me what the probable label was, I was in denial.  Then it took *3* ladies from the board here writing me privately backchannel, BEGGING me to get evals.  So I always offer to do that for people.  I understand the shock, believe me.  Ds has been even more of a shock, oy.  I'm just saying waiting on evals was the dumbest thing I ever did.  You deserve the info as the teacher to help you teach better, and she deserves the right words for what she's feeling.  The trick is to get a really good neuropsychologist, someone who does enough testing to dig in and someone known for giving helpful feedback.  It is so NOT FUN to teach when this stuff is going on and you don't have the right words for what you're seeing.  And at this age, they're finally able to TELL you something is amiss.  And you've worked with them enough that you KNOW their hearts and KNOW they're trying.  That's when it's time to stop fighting and get the evals.  

[PeterPan]

Ok, that sounded really impulsive.  I just figure if your Momma Gut has brought you this far, it's probably right that there's something worth eval'ing for.  ;)  Anyways, if you want a middle of the road option, you can ask your ped to run an executive function screening tool and give you his take.  Peds will diagnose adhd, yes.  At that point you have a label, a scrip, and none of the INFO and DETAILS that actually help you change your teaching.  The neuropsych eval for us was golden.  But you have to deal with issues of price point, how your insurance works, etc. 

[arcara]

So, did the neuropsych tell you how to help your dc? Im not really interested in drugs (not that I'm judging anyone who uses them) I would just like a lot of other options to work through.

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[OneStepAtATime]

I agree with the others.  You need a detailed evaluation from someone truly qualified to tweak out all the various things that may be going on as well as where the strengths lie.  You don't want a medical professional (such as a pediatrician that usually has limited knowledge and experience regarding tweaking out the real causes of learning challenges) who is just going to focus in on one thing and try to put a band-aid on it without understanding the details of the bigger picture.

 

You might read The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide while you decide what direction you want to leap now...it might help fill in some holes.  See if anything in there speaks to you about your child.

 

Honestly, there could be so many things going on.  An evaluation is almost certainly the best way to find out what all is happening and where to go from there.  I have read many, many posts on this board and others over the past two years.  I haven't read any post where someone said they wished they had never gotten any evaluations.  Nearly all of the posts I have read DID say they wished they hadn't waited, hoping things would just work themselves out.

 

You are not alone in your concerns.  Many here have been where you are and many are still working on answers of their own.  Answers are out there, though.  I applaud you for wanting to seek answers.  I wish I had done so much sooner than I did.  Best wishes.

[Mandylubug]

I've heard that before. I'd seek out an evaluation as well.

[PeterPan]

So, did the neuropsych tell you how to help your dc? Im not really interested in drugs (not that I'm judging anyone who uses them) I would just like a lot of other options to work through.

I'd like to tell you it's a slam dunk you'll get great help just by getting a neuropsych, but they vary just as much as OBs, dentists, and all other practitioners.  You'll find psychs who do 2 hours of testing and give almost no help, psychs who do 4-6 hours of testing and give good help, psychs who do 8-10 hours of testing and give astounding help.  Remember you're also paying $200-400 an hour for that help.  Most psychs I've called have a flat rate.  The psychs in the hospital system will be the most expensive.

 

So you have the eval process, where they listen to you, do a ton of testing, have you fill out mountains of questionnaires, and then there's a feedback process where they give you their take and you get to ask questions.  Then typically a couple weeks later you get a write-up of some sort.  

 

You're going to see variation in how much time they spend and how long their reports tend to be. For me, I realized I need the length of testing.  Sometimes when you get really long reports, what is making them long is their patient summary (stuff I already know) and web links.  I don't know, our psych had recs but mostly were from the ps world.  

 

To *me* what was really helpful was when I sat there for 2 1/2 hours going through every single question I had.  I went through every subject, explaining the range of options I had and asked him what he suggested within that range.  I don't know, for me it was so empowering and freeing to realize this professional was saying that the farther out of the box I took things the better, that a lot of the things people worry about on the boards weren't things I should be worrying about and that some of the things they diss (engagement, creativity, etc.) should be much higher on our agenda.  I needed a professional saying that and listening to all my fears and saying it's going to be ok.  

 

He didn't solve my curriculum problems, but he gave me tools and concepts to sort them out.  He made me a lot more confident to be radical.  He helped me let go of some of the negative ways we had worked together, understand what the precise causes were, and then figure out how to problem solve.  If you actually want someone thing to flesh it all out and get in the weeds with you, that's therapy.  There are educational therapists that are AMAZING out there.  I went to a talk by a couple from a practice, and they blew me out of the way with the way they could pull together concepts and apply them.  Marie from here on the boards is studying to be one.  :D  So yes there are people who will take your money and help you apply the things the psych tells you.  The psych, for that flat fee, is going to do X number of hours of testing, answer your questions for a predetermined amount of time, and then give you a write-up.  The more your psych is known for being helpful and the more time he spends, the more you'll learn through that.  But mainly it's going to give *you* insight that *you* use to solve your problems.  Make sense?  

 

Hmmm, did that answer anything?  I got really talkative there!  I can't promise you'll get a good psych.  Take the time to find one who gives helpful feedback, and you'll get helpful feedback.  Make sure he's not anti-homeschooling.  I already dumped one psych for that.  It's so not pretty to go in and have them say xyz is your fault because you homeschool and don't blah blah.  Spit, spit.  

 

I like to suggest you look at provider lists for therapies like Interactive Metronome or Cogmed.  That will sort of get you in the loop.  Look for referral lists for popular practitioners in your area and see who shows up.  Look for a state level org for the things you suspect and google to see if they have referral lists.  Then cross-reference those lists and see what you get.  

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[geodob]

You wrote that you would like to work through some other options?

Attention isn't a single thing, but something that we maintain at different levels.

So that while we have our primary attention. 

We also have secondary attention, where multiple things can be maintained at that level.

 

Where these 'other things that she is always thinking about' ?

Are secondary thoughts, that intrude on primary attention and thinking.

 

But something that you could try, is to occupy her secondary attention?

 

One simple approach that you could try?

Is to have some music playing in the background.

But music without an lyrics, such as something Classical?

So that it occupies her secondary attention.

Where you could try this, and ask her if it makes any difference?

 

Though another approach, involves replacing he chair with a 'balance ball'?

Here's some examples, in case you are familiar with them?

http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/balance-balls

 

Where basically staying seated on these, occupies secondary attention.

Though they are both options that you could try, and observe whether they make a significant difference?

[PeterPan]

My dd does the music in the background with earbuds a lot.

[OneStepAtATime]

FWIW, DD have to have time to swing and listen to music to process data.  Before, when she had to sit for extended periods without that she retained very little and was so antsy and distracted and frustrated.  And she also does better if she is swinging while we discuss things.  I don't learn that way.  It would drive me nuts.  And it took a LOT of trial and error to discover this was something that worked well for DD but it does.

[wapiti]

One simple approach that you could try?

Is to have some music playing in the background.

But music without an lyrics, such as something Classical?

So that it occupies her secondary attention.

Where you could try this, and ask her if it makes any difference?

 

Just curious - would it mean anything in particular if a child was too distracted by having classical music in the background?

[Snow]

Just curious - would it mean anything in particular if a child was too distracted by having classical music in the background?

Ds does this sometimes. Sometimes music is great and it positively shifts our hs mood. Other times it's like he's just particularly sensitive and it's overwhelming. I've always just assumed it auditory sensitivity flaring up.

 

I'm curious too and will be listening in.

[Mom22ns]

Just curious - would it mean anything in particular if a child was too distracted by having classical music in the background?

 

It would mean they are just like me. :) Classical music in the background makes me want to scream and makes me completely incapable of functioning if I'm focusing on something difficult. 

 

I've never been evaluated, but every seminar I've ever been to, every quiz I've taken and description I've seen, I am very, very ADD. My dh is mildly ASD, ds is more strongly ASD and the only one officially diagnosed in the family. Dd is mildly ADHD. Dd and dh love music in the background. Ds and I are crippled by it. Earbuds are very popular in our house :)

 

To the op: get an evaluation. You can start by talking to your pediatrician for a referral. You've gotten great information on types of evals and types of docs. Your OhE is right, your instinct that is kicking in, saying that something is wrong, means that something is wrong. As parents, we are almost never wrong about this. We remain in denial as long as we can. When our instincts overwhelm that and say it is time to look for help, it usually is. 

 

Will that evaluation provide you help? I really, really hope so. We have had some people work with our ds who have been tremendously helpful through the years. The best, really, the very best, was an OT at the public schools who could explain and give suggestions for how to work with or around any issue. She is amazing. We worked a bit with a private developmental psychologist at one time that wasn't bad and gave some good suggestions. A friend who is the director of special ed for a public school district, not mine, has been able to give me some wonderful advice though the years. We never seriously considered meds either. Knowing what was going on enabled me to do my own research and figure out how to help too. 

 

Knowledge is power. The more you know about what is going on with your daughter, the more you will be able to help her. Whether your initial evaluator gives you the help or not, the knowledge is the first step.

[arcara]

Thanks so much to everyone for taking to time to write so such detailed advice. I have a lot to research and look into. I really appreciate your support!