Too many novels for my 11th grader?

[jpklehm]

As I was reading through this thread (http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/527144-what-does-my-9th-grade-english-lack/?do=findComment&comment=5902479), specifically post #6, I realized that perhaps I'm assigning too many novels for my son to read and not enough variety in other media (essays, poems, etc.).

 

My ds is in 11th grade.  Here is what I'm assigning for this year:

 

Autobiography:  The Diary of a Young Girl  (Anne Frank)

Sci-Fi:  Animal Farm (George Orwell)

Shakespeare:  Macbeth (tragedy)

Epic:  The Iliad (Homer)

German Novel:  All Quiet on the Western Front  (Erich Maria Remarque)

French Novel:  A Bridge Over the River Kwai  (Pierre Boulle)

 

*And possibly The Sun Also Rises (Hemingway), if there's time.

 

Short Stories (+ a couple Hemingway ones):

"The Fly" by Katherine Mansfield

"The Open Boat" by Stephen Crane

"The Interlopers" by H. H. Munro

"To Build a Fire" by Jack London

"The Gift of the Magi" by O. Henry

"The Minister's Black Veil" by Nathanial Hawthorne

 

 

I'm REALLY open to hearing what you all think about this list.  Is it too much?  Should I take a novel or two away and assign more essays and poems?  If so, what would you suggest?

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

Edited The Iliad as Epic.

[JanetC]

The only thing that stands out as huge on that list is doing the entire Iliad -- it's longer and more difficult than a lot of the rest.

 

For any reading list, you will find those doing more and those doing less. Some who emphasize one thing over another, etc. The question is, is this a reasonable step up from what your particular student did last year? Taken as a whole, have you surveyed a variety of good writing over all of high school?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't think this is necessarily too much.

 

However, I have been thinking of the fact that I've done little analysis of poetry with my kids.  Poems, especially some from British literature, were some of my favorite readings in high school.  I've been working on bringing those more into our homeschool studies.

 

On essays, I think there is a lot of value to experiencing well written non-fiction essays.  They can serve as good models for the student's own writing.  Not everyone is cut out to write creative fiction.  But most should be able to learn to write a structured essay that states a position and defends it with evidence.  Looking at how essays are structured can help students find logical flaws in essays they encounter (like opinion pieces in the paper or on the internet).  Also, there is more and more emphasis on non-fiction readings within the standardized testing world and with Common Core.  So there is a growing expectation that the student have a familiarity and ease in dealing with them.

 

Having said that, I think you could add a couple in without taking other things out.  For example, there have been some recent essays about the beginning of WWI that would fit well with reading Remarque.  (Actually, there is some good WWI poetry too.  But then I tend to think in thematic units with lit.)

 

[Matryoshka]

Beats me if I know.  I asked for feedback on what I'm doing for 11th, and so far zilch.  I was also hoping for someone to chime in on whether the 'mix' was good. I started with the novels and am trying to 'fill in' to make it a complete course. 

 

I'm assigning even more novels than you are.  The poetry I'm assigning is much shorter and simpler, but a lot more different kinds rather than one long work in one style   I have even less short stories (I've started by just mining the ones that were in the AmLit text I bought.  Your short stories look to be all American?  I may steal some to add to my list... ;) ).  The drama is simpler (since it's American Lit, no Shakespeare this year, but she did do 3 Shakespeare plays the past two years and will do one next year.  She loves Shakespeare).  I think I currently have about 7 or so essays scheduled?  I forgot to list them.  Do I have it 'right'?  No idea.

 

Of course, after having dd go to that CC Honors Comp course and find out that they'll read only a few short stories, with simple language from only one author along with a few articles, I'm feeling like anything i come up with has to be better than that...

 

PS  May I ask how you're going to be discussing and analyzing the novels?  Will you use guides, Socratic questions, or just wing it?  How are you coming up with writing assignments?  This is the part I'm still trying to figure out about the novels on my list...

As I was reading through this thread (http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/527144-what-does-my-9th-grade-english-lack/?do=findComment&comment=5902479), specifically post #6, I realized that perhaps I'm assigning too many novels for my son to read and not enough variety in other media (essays, poems, etc.).

 

My ds is in 11th grade.  Here is what I'm assigning for this year:

 

Autobiography:  The Diary of a Young Girl  (Anne Frank)

Sci-Fi:  Animal Farm (George Orwell)

Shakespeare:  Macbeth (tragedy)

Poetry:  The Iliad (Homer)

German Novel:  All Quiet on the Western Front  (Erich Maria Remarque)

French Novel:  A Bridge Over the River Kwai  (Pierre Boulle)

 

*And possibly The Sun Also Rises (Hemingway), if there's time.

 

Short Stories (+ a couple Hemingway ones):

"The Fly" by Katherine Mansfield

"The Open Boat" by Stephen Crane

"The Interlopers" by H. H. Munro

"To Build a Fire" by Jack London

"The Gift of the Magi" by O. Henry

"The Minister's Black Veil" by Nathanial Hawthorne

 

 

I'm REALLY open to hearing what you all think about this list.  Is it too much?  Should I take a novel or two away and assign more essays and poems?  If so, what would you suggest?

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

 

Frankly, for a full year of high school English, this looks rather light.  Three novels, a play, an epic poem, and the autobiography, plus some short stories?  I suppose it depends on what you want to do with each -- do you require an in-depth paper on each work?  Do you closely-read each work?

 

Assuming your school year runs about 9 months, this would mean you'll spend about six weeks on each work.  I have a hard time imagining spending six weeks on the 100 page Animal Farm, unless it was closely read, with a lot of related reading to Orwell's life, and Russian/Soviet history, etc.

 

I'd re-read WTM again for more ideas about what to read.

[Julie of KY]

I think you are fine, but my kids tend to read more. I wouldn't add more if it will take away from what you are doing - it's better to do less well than to do more poorly.

 

My kids tend to do a novel a month. We may take a month to do poetry or short stories or just intersperse them between novels.

[jpklehm]

The only thing that stands out as huge on that list is doing the entire Iliad -- it's longer and more difficult than a lot of the rest.

 

For any reading list, you will find those doing more and those doing less. Some who emphasize one thing over another, etc. The question is, is this a reasonable step up from what your particular student did last year? Taken as a whole, have you surveyed a variety of good writing over all of high school?

 

Yes, this is a step up from how much he read last year (although the genres and # of short stories were similar).  I had him read The LIvely Art of Writing as well as Elements of Style, and a lengthy short story unit before beginning reading the novels for the year.

[EKS]

I don't think it's too much, and I *also* think you may want to assign more essays and poems.  To make the novel-length works a little more manageable, you could just have him watch Macbeth on Netflix/DVD and listen to an audiobook of the Iliad.  Also, you can spread the Iliad out on top of the easier works (do a bit of the Iliad and some other reading each day) so that it doesn't seem as overwhelming.

[Lori D.]

Unless you have an extraordinary slow reader, that looks fine on time to me -- and I do think you'd easily have time for The Sun Also Rises. If you have a stronger reader, then this is pretty lite, and you would definitely be able to add more to your list.

 

Animal Farm is a novella and super-short, and wouldn't take you more than 2 weeks to read and discuss. Short stories usually are read in just 1-2 days (depending on length and complexity), and then another 1-3 days to discuss/write about, depending on the story and the assignment -- we usually averaged 2 short stories per week the year we did a ton of short stories.

 

The only thing I would mention is that The Iliad, while written in Ancient Greek epic poetic form, that is much more oral story-telling narrative with sound devices of alliteration and syllables. That is very different from the structure and form of traditional western poetry which is based on rhyme and meter, and while some poems do tell a story, the majority are much more about image, metaphor, and ideas. In short, The Iliad would not be considered and analyzed as poetry is today.

 

Personally, I think you have a good variety of types of Literature in your school year:

1 epic (The Iliad)

1 play (Macbeth)

1 memoir/autobiography (Anne Frank)

1 novella (Animal Farm)

6-8 short stories

3 novels (All Quiet on the Western Front, Bridge on the River Kwai, The Sun Also Rises)

 

If you want to, I think you will have still have enough time in your schedule to add 1-2 weeks of a unit of traditional poetry without crunching your schedule. Maybe some of Progeny Press' Introduction to Poetry: Forms and Elements, or Classical Academic Press' Art of Poetry, every so often -- like fill out a week here and there if you finish a book mid-week...

 

Have a great year of Literature adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[jpklehm]

I don't think this is necessarily too much.

 

However, I have been thinking of the fact that I've done little analysis of poetry with my kids.  Poems, especially some from British literature, were some of my favorite readings in high school.  I've been working on bringing those more into our homeschool studies.

 

On essays, I think there is a lot of value to experiencing well written non-fiction essays.  They can serve as good models for the student's own writing.  Not everyone is cut out to write creative fiction.  But most should be able to learn to write a structured essay that states a position and defends it with evidence.  Looking at how essays are structured can help students find logical flaws in essays they encounter (like opinion pieces in the paper or on the internet).  Also, there is more and more emphasis on non-fiction readings within the standardized testing world and with Common Core.  So there is a growing expectation that the student have a familiarity and ease in dealing with them.

 

Having said that, I think you could add a couple in without taking other things out.  For example, there have been some recent essays about the beginning of WWI that would fit well with reading Remarque.  (Actually, there is some good WWI poetry too.  But then I tend to think in thematic units with lit.)

I agree with your two points regarding reading well-written non-fiction essays. 

 

Is there a resource or two that you would recommend, to find essays?

 

Thank you.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I agree with your two points regarding reading well-written non-fiction essays.

 

Is there a resource or two that you would recommend, to find essays?

 

Thank you.

I started with several essay anthologies that I bought used for about $1 each. I browse and pick what I think sounds interesting. I also browsed through several syllabi for AP English Language which is essay heavy.

[PeterPan]

I agree with your two points regarding reading well-written non-fiction essays. 

 

Is there a resource or two that you would recommend, to find essays?

 

Thank you.

We've enjoyed annuals from this series:  The Best American Science and Nature Writing 2013  They also have them for food writing, crime writing, all sorts of genres.  

 

Also consider reading, discussing, and analyzing rhetorically editorials http://www.nytimes.com/pages/opinion/

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I agree with your two points regarding reading well-written non-fiction essays. 

 

Is there a resource or two that you would recommend, to find essays?

 

Thank you.

 

I started a new thread about essays.  Maybe some other folks will chime in with some of their favorites.

[jpklehm]

Unless you have an extraordinary slow reader, that looks fine on time to me -- and I do think you'd easily have time for The Sun Also Rises. If you have a stronger reader, then this is pretty lite, and you would definitely be able to add more to your list.

 

Animal Farm is a novella and super-short, and wouldn't take you more than 2 weeks to read and discuss. Short stories usually are read in just 1-2 days (depending on length and complexity), and then another 1-3 days to discuss/write about, depending on the story and the assignment -- we usually averaged 2 short stories per week the year we did a ton of short stories.

 

The only thing I would mention is that The Iliad, while written in Ancient Greek epic poetic form, that is much more oral story-telling narrative with sound devices of alliteration and syllables. That is very different from the structure and form of traditional western poetry which is based on rhyme and meter, and while some poems do tell a story, the majority are much more about image, metaphor, and ideas. In short, The Iliad would not be considered and analyzed as poetry is today.

 

Personally, I think you have a good variety of types of Literature in your school year:

1 epic (The Iliad)

1 play (Macbeth)

1 memoir/autobiography (Anne Frank)

1 novella (Animal Farm)

6-8 short stories

3 novels (All Quiet on the Western Front, Bridge on the River Kwai, The Sun Also Rises)

 

If you want to, I think you will have still have enough time in your schedule to add 1-2 weeks of a unit of traditional poetry without crunching your schedule. Maybe some of Progeny Press' Introduction to Poetry: Forms and Elements, or Classical Academic Press' Art of Poetry, every so often -- like fill out a week here and there if you finish a book mid-week...

 

Have a great year of Literature adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thank you for the distinction for The Iliad, Lori.  Yes, I totally agree.

 

I also really like your poetry suggestions.  We haven't done enough poetry; to be completely honest, not much at all in the last couple years, so I'm glad for the suggestion.

 

Thank you!