Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Hi, we are feeling very cheated. My husband was out of town, our air conditioner broke and we had our "trusted" a/c guy come look and replace it. He said, "I have a scratch and dent one that is perfect and it'll be less expensive and it doesn't show any problems." Ok, so we went with it. Fast forward- we have just discovered that he replaced our a/c unit with a unit made in 2005!!! It's almost 10 years old! No disclosure - it may have been not used, but still, it's 10 years old!!! And it was $5000. Anyone know if we have a legal leg to stand on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 FYI this happened this July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Wow $5000! We replaced our interior and exteriors units for under 5000 new which included the install. I can't imagine that there is much you can do unless he gave you one that was not working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Do you have paperwork with the specifications of the unit? Was the $5000 for the unit itself or for unit plus installation? I think I'd start there, and then look at what a unit from 2014 would cost new. I'd also see what a unit from 2005 of that particular make/model would cost usually -- maybe call around. It certainly sounds like he implied the unit was new (like a buying a book with a mark on it) rather than than used, so I'd look into what the paperwork says and what the numbers say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 Yes I do have a booklet and the model number on the unit says 2005. However, it doesn't say "2005 Lenox a/c" the model number indicates the age. Not knowing how to read the age of the unit based on a serial number, I took him at his word that it was a new machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 This was discovered by a home inspector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Is it possible the unit was unused, just sitting around waiting to be used? He said "scratch and dent' so maybe it's been in the back of a warehouse in a box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Oh I misread where he implied it was a new unit. Well there could be a chance although it would be hard to prove he misled you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 My husband just spoke with him and said "we don't just have 2005's laying around." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 My husband just spoke with him and said "we don't just have 2005's laying around." $5k was for installation too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 "New" could easily mean unused. What is the problem with a 2005 unit? Does it not work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 My husband just spoke with him and said "we don't just have 2005's laying around." $5k was for installation too Does he mean to say that the unit is not from 2005? If so, I think I'd ask him to explain why the model/serial no etc indicate otherwise. Perhaps you can call the manufacturer and ask them if there is a reasonable explanation or for further information that might help figure out what happened. I think I'd try first to ascertain the facts, both from your side and from his, then establish clearly what the differences are -- do you disagree on the facts or the interpretation of the facts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 What are your damages? Does it not work? Is your home worth less because of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Is he licensed? One place to start is here. Even if they can't help you, filing a claim may prevent someone else from being swindled by this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Hi, we are feeling very cheated. My husband was out of town, our air conditioner broke and we had our "trusted" a/c guy come look and replace it. He said, "I have a scratch and dent one that is perfect and it'll be less expensive and it doesn't show any problems." Ok, so we went with it. Fast forward- we have just discovered that he replaced our a/c unit with a unit made in 2005!!! It's almost 10 years old! No disclosure - it may have been not used, but still, it's 10 years old!!! And it was $5000. Anyone know if we have a legal leg to stand on? Do you have anything in writing? What does the receipt say? What representations did he make or warranty did he give? Sounds like he did not represent it as brand new, just from what you say, and you did not ask, but the paperwork may differ. Is it working well? $5000 is ridiculous for an old unit, or even a new unit, and certainly for a scratch and dent. Did you price them out in your area? Should not have exceeded $1000-2000, tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 What are your damages? Does it not work? Is your home worth less because of it? I wouldn't think a 9 year old unit would be nearly as efficient as a unit made in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Yes I do have a booklet and the model number on the unit says 2005. However, it doesn't say "2005 Lenox a/c" the model number indicates the age. Not knowing how to read the age of the unit based on a serial number, I took him at his word that it was a new machine. It could be a new unit that simply remained unsold and was still sitting in the warehouse. Manufacturing age alone does not tell the full story. Also, you are probably aware that the older Freon-using units are being phased out and the new R-40's are being used now. He isn't going to be able to get newly manufactured unit that still uses Freon, if that is the type you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I wouldn't think a 9 year old unit would be nearly as efficient as a unit made in 2014. They would be two different types of units. Freon units are being phased out. It depends on whether OP was installing an entirely new system that requires new ventilation, or simply replacing an existing Freon unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Not a lawyer but I'm not sure you would have any legal grounds, since you accepted a scratch and dent model. I'd be livid too! That price sounds normal for brand new where I live, but depends on the size of your house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at the beach Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Have you called the manufacturer? Find out based on the serial number whatever you can about this unit--like was it owned by someone? Hopefully, the manufacturer can give you details about the unit. I would also closely review the contract you signed, looking for specific details regarding price of the unit, labor costs, warranty info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 We represented the a/c as new to new owners scheduled to close. Their inspector caught that it is a model from 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Hi, we are feeling very cheated. My husband was out of town, our air conditioner broke and we had our "trusted" a/c guy come look and replace it. He said, "I have a scratch and dent one that is perfect and it'll be less expensive and it doesn't show any problems." Ok, so we went with it. Fast forward- we have just discovered that he replaced our a/c unit with a unit made in 2005!!! It's almost 10 years old! No disclosure - it may have been not used, but still, it's 10 years old!!! And it was $5000. Anyone know if we have a legal leg to stand on? I don't know what he said besides what you've said here but it looks to me like 1. He really did have a scratch and dent one 2. (not sure if it was less expensive - did you get quotes on a new one vs. this one?) 3. It really didn't show any problems So unless you asked how old it was, then I don't see how you have a legal leg to stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 He tried to make it sound new because, technically, it may have been a new (left over) unit. The fact that he said they don't have any laying around from 2005 sound like he is trying to play dumb now. I would report him to the BBB and let them handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The damage is that a 2005 AC unit has no warranty on it. A newer unit should. OP, we just priced a brand new Trane unit and it is under 5k. You either live in a very high COL area or this guy is a crook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 I would say our col is not that high here. It is a big unit - 5 ton. Still in shock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Call the manufacturer to verify the age of the unit. The inspector may (or may not) be wrong. Then you will at least be working with accurate information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 He tried to make it sound new because, technically, it may have been a new (left over) unit. The fact that he said they don't have any laying around from 2005 sound like he is trying to play dumb now. I would report him to the BBB and let them handle it. Have you ever reported anything to the BBB? It is pretty useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 That's a tough call............ I know we bought a new unit about two years ago. It is a hybrid unit (it's not a heat pump but I forgot exactly what it's called) just for the downstairs, and it cost around 7000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 Just frustrated. It was a 100* day, my husband was out of the country, and he's been our a/c heat guy for 13 years! He kept talking about his marine corps son (my husband is in the Marines) and I truly just feel stupid and duped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 We have indeed verified the manufacturing date. Queenkath, wouldn't it tick you off after spending $7k to find out it's almost a decade old unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 We represented the a/c as new to new owners scheduled to close. Their inspector caught that it is a model from 2005. I would first verify the age of the model with the manufacturer. I would probably plan to give a copy of your receipt to the buyers. Whether there's a possible misrepresentation by you to the buyers is another question - I would consult with your real estate attorney (who is handling your closing). Eta, if the unit is in good working condition, it's hard to imagine that this would constitute a material misrepresentation that would endanger the deal. But, certainly it doesn't make the buyers feel good, IYKWIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Around here, air conditioners are frequently stolen, though usually from churches and businesses. Is it possible this could be a stolen unit that was "sold" to the salesman by thieves? Any way you could use a serial number to ask police if it was reported stolen? I'm reaching here, I know, but that's the first thing I thought about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 We have indeed verified the manufacturing date. Queenkath, wouldn't it tick you off after spending $7k to find out it's almost a decade old unit? Oh, I'd be ticked....... I meant that it's a tough call legally. I doubt you'd be able to prove he misrepresented what you were buying. I'd think scratch and dent might be a year or two old, sitting in a warehouse, but not almost ten years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmtzc2009 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Manufacture date and sales date are two different things. You would need to get the original sales receipt from the installer to know when it was sold to him. Based on the high price he charged it's doubtful he'll provide that to you. We are in a high COL area and my dh is in the business. Even with installation that's a hefty price you paid. If the unit was scratch and dent the installer would have bought it at a discount. The only way I think you'd have a legal case is if he misrepresented the unit to you and you could show that with whatever paperwork he did provide you with. I'm sorry, this situation just stinks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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