AP Bio with no intention for exam- should it be a fun course not listed on transcript?

[Emmie]

 

DD took biology W/LAB in 9th grade. On top of that she has environmental science and Chemistry. She will take Physics as a senior (and one semester of Oceanography). She is interested in Thinkwell's AP Bio because she really loves bio, wants to be prepared for college biology, and wants to refresh her memory on 9th grade stuff- she doesn't remember much of it! 

 

Since she has no intention of taking the exam, should I even give her HS credit for it? Would it be weird to have a random second biology on her transcript? 

 

 

[regentrude]

Why would you NOT give credit for the biology course if it is at a different level?

If you are afraid of raising red flags with an AP course but no exam, call it "Advanced Biology".

 

[Emmie]

Why would you NOT give credit for the biology course if it is at a different level?

If you are afraid of raising red flags with an AP course but no exam, call it "Advanced Biology".

 

 

My main worry was about raising flags. Calling it advanced Biology sounds good. :)

 

 

[maize]

It's not unusual for kids to take AP classes but not take the exam, I would not leave it off the transcript.

 

I had three biology classes on my highschool transcript-- in 10th, 11th, and 12th grades. My other science credits were Earth Science in 9th grade and chemistry classes in 11th and 12th. Colleges are used to seeing classes of progressive difficulty in the same science field, especially for a student interested in science.

[Emmie]

 

regentrude- would you recommend we do the same thing we DD's other AP level courses that she won't take the exam for? We have Government and Calculus that are AP level - should we label them as "Advanced Calculus" and "Advanced American Government"? I knew we couldn't label them as AP, even if she was planning on the exam, but I also knew that honors is a useless term with hs'ing, so I wasn't sure what to call them. 

 

 

[In The Great White North]

I had this on ds's transcript:

 

Physics  (Hewitt. Conceptual Physics)

Physics  (Halliday, Resnick, Krane, Physics vol. I)

 

and dd's:

 

Physics  (Hewitt. Conceptual Physics)

Physik (Halliday Physik Bachelor Edition, in German)

 

No AP, no Advanced, no Honors.  None of the colleges they applied to questioned it. 

 

Although I'm sure the Physics department would know that the first one was not calculus based and the second one was, I doubt if all the admissions people did.

 

 

[kiana]

The reason for labeling it "advanced biology" is to differentiate between that and regular biology, and to indicate she is not simply repeating biology.

 

I would specifically not label the calculus course as "advanced calculus" has a rather different meaning in mathematics. It is frequently used for junior-level intro to real analysis (calculus with rigorous proofs). It is expected that calculus is university-level -- if it is not, it would be called something like "intro to calculus" or "applied calculus".

 

For the government, I am less positive, but my gut says that she shouldn't do it unless she took two government courses and needs to indicate that she did not just take the same course twice.

[Mom22ns]

You can't label Thinkwell courses AP on a transcript. My dd will be doing Thinkwell Biology this year and we'll label it Advanced Biology. Ds will be doing their Chemistry and we'll do the same thing there. 

 

This is what we do with any course that is designed as AP, but is not from an approved AP provider. We call them "honors" if it is the only level of the course the kids will do. We call it "advanced" if it is the second level they are doing. However, I would just label Calculus as Calculus.

 

[regentrude]

regentrude- would you recommend we do the same thing we DD's other AP level courses that she won't take the exam for? We have Government and Calculus that are AP level - should we label them as "Advanced Calculus" and "Advanced American Government"? I knew we couldn't label them as AP, even if she was planning on the exam, but I also knew that honors is a useless term with hs'ing, so I wasn't sure what to call them. 

 

You should NOT name it "Advanced calculus", because that title suggests an upper level college math course beyond calc 3.

Has she taken any prior calculus course before the AP course? If not, you should label it simply "Calculus", because there is no need to differentiate between two courses of different level on her transcript.

Ditto for Government: "Advanced" only if she has previously taken another, non-AP, government course, and you want to make it clear that it is not a repetition of the same.

[Emmie]

You should NOT name it "Advanced calculus", because that title suggests an upper level college math course beyond calc 3.

Has she taken any prior calculus course before the AP course? If not, you should label it simply "Calculus", because there is no need to differentiate between two courses of different level on her transcript.

Ditto for Government: "Advanced" only if she has previously taken another, non-AP, government course, and you want to make it clear that it is not a repetition of the same.

 

Ok, that makes complete sense! I had planned to label them 'regularly', but I wanted to make sure that was the right option. ;)

 

 

[KarenNC]

You can't label Thinkwell courses AP on a transcript. My dd will be doing Thinkwell Biology this year and we'll label it Advanced Biology. Ds will be doing their Chemistry and we'll do the same thing there. 

 

This is what we do with any course that is designed as AP, but is not from an approved AP provider. We call them "honors" if it is the only level of the course the kids will do. We call it "advanced" if it is the second level they are doing. However, I would just label Calculus as Calculus.

 

Thinkwell lists their courses as AP courses, just like PA Homeschoolers and other providers. It was my understanding that no course could be labeled as AP without approval from the College Board, so is Thinkwell misrepresenting itself or is there some way to tell the difference between courses labeled AP that aren't from approved providers of which I am not aware? I can understand a particular text being labeled AP, but needing to be part of an approved syllabus, but Thinkwell is providing actual instruction, so I would have assumed it was in line with other providers.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thinkwell labels their courses as "compatible with AP"

 

It doesn't look like they claim to have been approved by CB.

 

 

regentrude- would you recommend we do the same thing we DD's other AP level courses that she won't take the exam for? We have Government and Calculus that are AP level - should we label them as "Advanced Calculus" and "Advanced American Government"? I knew we couldn't label them as AP, even if she was planning on the exam, but I also knew that honors is a useless term with hs'ing, so I wasn't sure what to call them. 

 

 

 

 

Might I ask why you want her to take three "AP level" classes without taking the AP test?  Transcripts are just one part of the applications puzzle, and external validation of mommy grades by AP test and other things can be very useful for getting into college.

 

Also, I'm curious that you state you start your school year in January, and finish in September(?)  How does that factor into the college admissions cycle?

[KarenNC]

Thinkwell labels their courses as "compatible with AP"

 

It doesn't look like they claim to have been approved by CB.

 

I don't mean to be dense, but that is not what I see on their website. All I see is "AP Biology" and I don't see the words "compatible with" anywhere.  Could you help me see what I'm missing? http://www.thinkwellhomeschool.com/products/ap-biology

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't mean to be dense, but that is not what I see on their website. All I see is "AP Biology" and I don't see the words "compatible with" anywhere.  Could you help me see what I'm missing? http://www.thinkwellhomeschool.com/products/ap-biology

 

Oh, that is interesting.  That's a different page than what I found.  When I searched for Thinkwell AP biology I got this as the top result.

 

http://www.thinkwell.com/student/product/biologyap

[snowbeltmom]

Thinkwell lists their courses as AP courses, just like PA Homeschoolers and other providers. It was my understanding that no course could be labeled as AP without approval from the College Board, so is Thinkwell misrepresenting itself or is there some way to tell the difference between courses labeled AP that aren't from approved providers of which I am not aware? I can understand a particular text being labeled AP, but needing to be part of an approved syllabus, but Thinkwell is providing actual instruction, so I would have assumed it was in line with other providers.

 

It is confusing.  My guess is that Thinkwell does not have official approval from the CB because Thinkwell does not offer any live teacher instruction, which is a requirement in order to be granted the right to use the AP designation.

 

[Luckymama]

Might I ask why you want her to take three "AP level" classes without taking the AP test? Transcripts are just one part of the applications puzzle, and external validation of mommy grades by AP test and other things can be very useful for getting into college.

 

If your dd can handle the content and workload of AP classes, why not have her take the tests?

[regentrude]

Might I ask why you want her to take three "AP level" classes without taking the AP test?  Transcripts are just one part of the applications puzzle, and external validation of mommy grades by AP test and other things can be very useful for getting into college.

 

The student is  a senior. Even if she were to take the AP test, college admissions are decided well before the test is even taken.

Unless she would want to test out of college bio , taking the AP exam is pointless.

 

[regentrude]

If your dd can handle the content and workload of AP classes, why not have her take the tests?

 

For what purpose should the kid take the test? She apparently wants to take bio at college. If she does not want to test out, what good does it do to take an AP exam May of senior year?

[KarenNC]

It is confusing.  My guess is that Thinkwell does not have official approval from the CB because Thinkwell does not offer any live teacher instruction, which is a requirement in order to be granted the right to use the AP designation.

 

 

I've sent Thinkwell a direct question about this, so hopefully I will hear back soon. Sebastian, my link was from searching "Thinkwell" and the first link that comes up is www.thinkwell.com, which is where I got my page. It also seems to be the one linked through Homeschool Buyer's Co-op.

 

If one must have live teacher instruction, how is a program like APEX Learning able to offer it without a live instructor being required? I'm not trying to beat this into the ground, but it is going to be critical to me in the next few years as I make choices about possible AP classes. Our local public school offers a new program to homeschoolers using APEX Learning, which is online at your own pace. There are teachers at the school available by appointment for assistance, but they are not doing regular instruction. This program includes a number of AP classes that they say are certified by the College Board. We are unlikely to need AP bio, but are definitely looking at other AP classes.

[snowbeltmom]

I've sent Thinkwell a direct question about this, so hopefully I will hear back soon. Sebastian, my link was from searching "Thinkwell" and the first link that comes up is www.thinkwell.com, which is where I got my page. It also seems to be the one linked through Homeschool Buyer's Co-op.

 

If one must have live teacher instruction, how is a program like APEX Learning able to offer it without a live instructor being required? I'm not trying to beat this into the ground, but it is going to be critical to me in the next few years as I make choices about possible AP classes. Our local public school offers a new program to homeschoolers using APEX Learning, which is online at your own pace. There are teachers at the school available by appointment for assistance, but they are not doing regular instruction. This program includes a number of AP classes that they say are certified by the College Board. We are unlikely to need AP bio, but are definitely looking at other AP classes.

 

I think the fact that teachers are available to answer questions satisfies the College Board requirement.  My boys are taking AP Computer Science with eIMACS.  It is also a go at your own pace online class.  However, unlike Thinkwell, there is a live teacher available to answer questions.

 

ETA: My prior post was a little unclear.  By "live" I don't mean the instruction is in real-time.  By "live" I mean that a human is available to answer questions.

 

The student is  a senior. Even if she were to take the AP test, college admissions are decided well before the test is even taken.

Unless she would want to test out of college bio , taking the AP exam is pointless.

 

 

From the OP's signature, she started her junior year this January, and is even now working on completing it, so she may not be on the traditional admissions schedule.

[Luckymama]

For what purpose should the kid take the test? She apparently wants to take bio at college. If she does not want to test out, what good does it do to take an AP exam May of senior year?

Sorry, I missed she is a senior.

[Emmie]

DD is not taking the exams because she doesn't want to. This is not a hard and fast rule. If she decides she wants to take them, she absolutely can. DD is a senior so these scores do not matter to the admissions process. Some of the schools DD is applying to does not accept the scores, and DD has no desire to test out of Calculus 1 or Biology - she wants to take both, from the beginning, once she is in college. She wants to use these courses as a way to prepare herself for the ones she'll take in college. Government is AP simply because it was the only curriculum she liked. Even if someone had said I should label government as advanced, I wouldn't have necessarily done it because there is a chance that DD will edit out some of the stuff to make it more basic. 

 

 

January start date related question? It is quite simple- DD is going to be finished by August. She'll officially begin senior year in September. It wasn't the most ideal of situations, but she has worked very hard and is finished with most of her courses for Junior year. The only course she may not finish by end of August/very beginning of September is PreCalc, and that is OK- she can work it until she is done and then move on to Calc. 

 

[KarenNC]

OK, here is their response:

"Thank you for your message. Our AP courses are college level online textbooks designed to prepare student for the AP exams. They are not approved by the College Board, but are excellent preparation for the exams."

 

I have strongly suggested that they add some sort of disclaimer or clarification to *all* their webpages, especially as they actively market their courses to homeschoolers as complete.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

OK, here is their response:

"Thank you for your message. Our AP courses are college level online textbooks designed to prepare student for the AP exams. They are not approved by the College Board, but are excellent preparation for the exams."

 

I have strongly suggested that they add some sort of disclaimer or clarification to *all* their webpages, especially as they actively market their courses to homeschoolers as complete.

 

Thanks for chasing this down.  I agree that they seem to be representing the course differently on their different pages.

[Mom22ns]

OK, here is their response:

"Thank you for your message. Our AP courses are college level online textbooks designed to prepare student for the AP exams. They are not approved by the College Board, but are excellent preparation for the exams."

 

I have strongly suggested that they add some sort of disclaimer or clarification to *all* their webpages, especially as they actively market their courses to homeschoolers as complete.

 

This is exactly what I always understood their courses to be. I don't want to go looking for it right now, but I'm pretty sure there is a disclaimer there somewhere. It is no different than Hippocampus or Sonlight labeling courses as AP. When you are just talking about instructional material, not a class, it cannot be approved by the college board. Thinkwell is just providing instructional material, not a class. It can't be approved in that format.

 

Also, be aware, the Thinkwell classes have not been updated in several years. The AP Bio exam changed significantly after the Thinkwell class was developed, so the AP prep is not well targeted to the current exam, even if the information presented is on a college level and covers the general scope and sequence necessary.

 

All that said, we are using a couple of Thinkwell science courses this year as "advanced" courses. My kids will CLEP afterwards. APs are very inaccessible for us anyway. 

 

Be sure to use the group buys on Homeschoolbuyerscoop to get the best deals on Thinkwell. It isn't there now, but it comes up regularly at a good discount.