How can I help my daughter? Language Processing

[Joyful Journeys]

My daughter age 4, was recently evaluated through our county services and qualifies for a special education preschool. The first team she saw called it a language processing disorder, though no further label was ever given at her IEP meeting. If you were to meet her out and about, you'd think nothing was wrong. But after talking with her for some time you see that she can't answer "wh" questions consistently, often mixes up tenses, verbs etc. She can't answer abstract questions like "what do you do if "x"? She just repeats what you said or talk about something else entirely. Conversations rarely follow more than one turn. She cannot follow multi-step directions. They put her expressive language in the realm of an 18-36 month old. Academically she knows numbers, colors, letters and sounds. I will ask the teachers too when I met them in a couple of weeks, but I can't turn off my brain in the meantime. What can I do to help her make these connections? I know for certain we'll homeschool for K, what types of programs should I look for with respect to reading and math? Thanks in advance.

[OneStepAtATime]

Hello!  I'm not certain I can give you any concrete answers but I did want to respond and give you hugs.  Those are tough questions with a child that young, especially since the diagnosis is rather general.   Who actually did the evaluation?  What was their background and qualifications?

 

Honestly, she may need you to just have her on a much slower track for a bit.  I know with DD and DS there are certain things I just had to really SLOOOOOOW down on.  DD13 is only now getting to fractions, for instance, and we have had to work quite a bit, with many different approaches to help her with elapsed time, reading a calendar, etc.  Both kids had to go back to the very basics of reading, as in sound discrimination even before linking sounds to letters, even though they are both highly articulate and were able to recognize letters very early.

 

What really helped me was getting an evaluation that went into a lot of detail and showed me strengths as well as weaknesses.  But both of my kids were older than yours.  DD was 11 and DS was 8.  Also, certain things were not evaluated that I am looking into getting evaluated now since they still have the odd glitch.

 

As for specific curriculum, I don't know that that is what you really need right now but I will mention what I have found helpful for my kids.  I know that Ronit Bird's book Overcoming Difficulty with Numbers has been a big help here.  We also use Barton Reading and Spelling to help with reading and spelling issues. 

 

At this point I guess I would be using a lot of math games, reading a lot to her, listening to audio books with her, playing games with letters, doing fun explorations outside, etc. 

 

If you don't mind my asking, what is the school supposed to be accomplishing for her for this next year?

[Lecka]

I would talk to the speech therapist and her teachers when she starts pre-school.  I hope they will be really helpful.  

 

My son mixes up wh questions.  This is what I am told for him:  who is often easiest.  Then where.  Then when.  Then what.  (Though kids go in different orders and can work on more than one at a time.)   Why and how are the hardest.  There are very concrete wh questions:  who is that? those are easier than questions like "who comes at Christmas," where you have to think of something.  For my son -- he answers questions first with a visual prompt -- this means there are 3-5 pictures out, and the answer is one of the pictures.  Copied from google image most of the time.  I have liked the Level 1 Dora and Diego books for asking very simple comprehension questions, too.  My son does like Dora and Diego, but they are very simple but still have a little bit of a plot.  (For asking questions -- maybe use an easier book than what you would otherwise read her some of the time, it may be easier for her.)  If I ask a question that he can answer with help from the picture in the book, that is easier for him.  For him he is always working from visual to abstract (no picture) b/c that is how he does best.  But I think -- talk to the teachers.  But do remember -- there is a big difference between a question "what is that" that will have a label object as an answer, and "what is Dora doing?" that may require an action verb.  My son spent a while (weeks) labeling pictures (purchased card sets or from google image) of action verbs like running, walking, kicking, jumping, drinking, brushing, etc etc b/c that was a prerequisite skill for him.  Then it is easier if the answer is just saying exactly what is happening in the picture, and harder if you need to understand the content of the story in order to answer.  If she likes a story and will listen to it a few times, but you think she is not quite getting it, just keep explaining when you read it.  Even if you can't see it directly in one or two days, it is helping her over time.  

 

For tenses -- one of his recommendations is to make a visual chart of his schedule or a few things we will do.  Then you can talk about what you did, and use the past tense.  And, talk about what you will do, and use the future tense.  That is like -- more for exposure.  It is a chance to use "first, next, then" language.  It is a chance to talk about the order things happen.  It is more for exposure at first but over time we will be able to use it to ask him questions and have him answer in the past tense for what he did.  Plus -- a visual support to help him remember.  They can be very simple.  A line drawing of a car for a car ride, a picture of a slide for going to the park.  

 

For the "what do you do if..." questions.  Now, my son does not talk like this yet, at all.  I think -- I would talk about simple stories and ask her some simple comprehension questions in a low-key way.  If she doesn't exactly know -- tell her part, get her started, or say it.  Maybe you can read that book again the next day and maybe she will answer more then.  Or after two days or three days.  That is how things start -- while she is just getting the hang of it.  But pick things that are her interest and that she likes, not where she is not interested and you have to quiz her.  

 

Some of the time it is good to really talk simply to her, too, so that you think she is following what you are saying.  If there are some abstract questions she can't answer, ask less abstract questions, or more concrete questions, so that you are asking her things she is able to answer.  Let her answer questions you know she knows the answer to, fairly often, so she will like talking and you have a chance to tell her she is doing great and you are so proud.  Say you are impressed you know her colors and that she can count things.  Just mix in the harder things or things she doesn't know as well a little bit, make sure a lot of your interactions are ones where she can shine with what she can say and answer.  

 

For multi-step directions -- start with one direction, then two.  Make sure she knows what you said.  Maybe have her hold up one finger and say first this, and then he next finger and say and then this.  You could have a picture card for her if you wanted.  If she is not doing two-step directions, don't give her three-step directions, she will probably not be able to do them.  Work on two-step.  If she has trouble with one step -- work on one step.  If she can follow a one step verbal direction -- hey, that is a lot better than if she were not.  

 

If conversations don't continue b/c she does not respond with a question or appropriate comment, you can fill in the blank or tell her "now you ask me blah blah."  Or play it with teddy bears.  But -- don't try to go back-and-forth 10 times, start with modeling or helping her with one more than she currently does.  

 

Those are some strategies we have done.  

 

I hope that you can find out more from the speech therapist and pre-school teachers.  My son has been in special needs pre-school, and I have seen a lot of kids really bloom.  Good luck to you and your daughter!  

 

Edit:  my son who has lower expressive language also has lower receptive language.  Since his receptive language is lower -- I do need to talk to him and read to him at the level of his receptive language a lot of the time, that is where he can understand and do well.  If her receptive language is higher -- then you can read to her and talk to her higher, and you should.  Some kids do have a big gap, my son is one where they are both delayed about the same amount.  You may be able to find this out looking at paperwork if you have that much paperwork yet.  Or -- you may just have a sense of it.  But if not -- hopefully the speech therapist can tell you soon.  

 

[Joyful Journeys]

Thank you so very much!! I will respond in more detail later, my post went poof.

[SandyKC]

My daughter age 4, was recently evaluated through our county services and qualifies for a special education preschool. The first team she saw called it a language processing disorder, though no further label was ever given at her IEP meeting. If you were to meet her out and about, you'd think nothing was wrong. But after talking with her for some time you see that she can't answer "wh" questions consistently, often mixes up tenses, verbs etc. She can't answer abstract questions like "what do you do if "x"? She just repeats what you said or talk about something else entirely. Conversations rarely follow more than one turn. She cannot follow multi-step directions. They put her expressive language in the realm of an 18-36 month old. Academically she knows numbers, colors, letters and sounds. I will ask the teachers too when I met them in a couple of weeks, but I can't turn off my brain in the meantime. What can I do to help her make these connections? I know for certain we'll homeschool for K, what types of programs should I look for with respect to reading and math? Thanks in advance.

 

Similarly, my DS had an "Arena Evaluation" when he was 3 and he had quite a few expressive language issues.  It's difficult, though, at that age to pinpoint the neurology for learning disabilities to know what is simply a developmental delay versus what is definitely an LD.  As your DD gets older and has some help with her language issues, you may see her problems disappear. As she gets older, it will become clear to you whether she has LD issues or not.  

 

So for now I'd focus on the basics with multisensory or audio-visual types of programs so as to maximize the effectiveness of any program you use.  The easiest route is to use audio-visual apps or programs.  I have some free programs listed (scroll down) for reading, math, and spelling on this webpage: http://learningabledkids.com/multi_sensory_training/free-multisensory-curriculum-online.htm.  I have a page specifically listing interactive reading programs at: http://learningabledkids.com/reading/online-interactive-reading-games-and-programs.htm.  

 

You probably wouldn't need to do a heavy-duty program yet.. Just keep it on the fun side and see if she progresses with the programs you select.  As she approaches 6-7, if you're seeing signs of significant issues with learning to read and do math facts, then you might want to consider a more intense, structured approach.  

 

I don't know if that's the kind of input you were looking for at this time, but feel free to ask questions if you have specific criteria you're wanting to apply to your search for programs.

[geodob]

Hi Lilbit,

I've written here about study and research I've been doing for 6 years into something called 'Inner Speech'.

Which you are using as you read this? Where you hear the words, without saying them out loud.

 

But we don't just use Inner Speech for reading?

If you consider how you respond to questions like: "what do you do if 'X' ?"

No doubt you would use Inner Speech to first talk through in your mind, what you would do if X?

So that you can come to a conclusion, and then give a reply.

 

Also if you are given some multi-step directions to follow?

You would also use Inner Speech to recall the directions, as you work through them.

 

But without Inner Speech, one can't reflect on one's thinking and form a considered response?

So that replies are more of a reflex, and not considered.

Where repeating what you just said, out loud.

Needs to be done out loud, if one can't use inner speech.

 

Though inner speech is something that one has to learn how to use.

Where girls often use their dolls for this, where they practice having imaginary conversations with their dolls.

[PeterPan]

Hi Lilbit, welcome to LC!   :grouphug:  with your evals.  That's always rough to start to get labels.  No matter what, this is not something you did to her or a failure on your part.  However, that said, it is something you can work on throughout the day, like Lecka said, to get those seeds planted and see what can nurture in time with the brain.  My ds has no intellectual disability, but indeed his SLP has worked explicitly with him on wh- words, etc.  In fact, it was pretty much the same age (4.5) when she was bringing those into focus.  It's good that you're catching it so early now and intervening!

 

Lecka's ideas for how to bring it into your day were fabulous.  My ds just needed little nudges.  The more speech you integrate into your day, the better.  When she wants something, have her talk.  Any time you can add little dialogues, do so.  So you might look at a picture book together and add dialogues like "what is it?  It's a ball!  Where is the ball, it's on the dog!"  That kind of thing.  Little efforts you make like that plant seeds.

 

Multi-step directions are hard!  That can be working memory as well as the language processing.  What you might do is separate it out from speech and see what happens.  By chance do you have the preschool activity cards from MFW?  They're really terrific.  You take basic things you have lying around the house and play little games.  Or just wing it and make it up yourself.  So you might spread a field of the little pieces and say pick up the heart and the circle.  Find one green and one blue.  That kind of thing.  Just start low and work up.  At that point it's just working memory.  THEN when her working memory gets higher, then backtrack, take it back down to 1, and have her repeat the instructions.  So you say "find one red" and she repeats "find one red" and then does it.  Then you give her an m&m for doing the task, yum.  But don't just right to doing the working memory AND the speech.  Separate them, kwim?  To repeat the directions is working her motor control, language processing, AND she's using her working memory.  So build one thing up to eliminate it as a problem.  At least that's what our SLP told us to do.  There's a really cool game for it Fistful of Coins.  It's a great game, but the SLP told us to play it this way to build him up to it slowly.

[Lecka]

Geodob -- my son's therapists do work with him that way, it is helpful for me to see the reason why.  I do it, too, but it is nice to know the background reasons besides just knowing "it is a good thing to do."  Right now we are happy when he narrates on his own, too.  It is something we look for.  

[Jennifer-72]

Though inner speech is something that one has to learn how to use.

Where girls often use their dolls for this, where they practice having imaginary conversations with their dolls.

I would take this a bit further. We know that pretend play at the most basic level needs to be present to have language at all! Therefore, any work you do to move to more complex pretend play pays huge dividends in speech and language development. Play really is the work of children!

 

OP I would really urge you to work on moving her play forward and also look at some materials from super duper publications. They have the language processing program which may be a helpful one for you to look at - especially if her receptive language is in the 18-36 range along with her expressive. You may also want to look at playing barrier games with her. There was a great blog post about barrier games that I have bookmarked on my PC. I am just on the iPad now, but will try to link that later for you.

[PeterPan]

Jenn, what is more complex pretend play, and how do you do it?  And yes, I'm not the op, but barrier games are on my we need to do this list because of you!  :)

[Jennifer-72]

Okay here is a link on barrier games  http://www.playingwithwords365.com/2011/11/barrier-games-great-for-language-enrichment/  Her blog has lots of great information all around.

 

OhE - I was just meaning to keep moving the pretend play forward and having them engage in more of it.  Many children with language difficulties will not generally engage in much pretend play and what they do is often at a more rudimentary level then their peers.  We did lots of role play stuff.  We also use to interrupt ds's play to try and move it forward.  Much like the model, match, more principle that Hanen uses.  With ds having autism his play would often get stuck so he would engage in the same play with say his playmobil set and never really change the script.  When I would see that happening I would come over and throw an extra character into the mix and have them do something dramatic to steer the play away from ds's original scripted plan and on to a new adventure. 

[Lecka]

I totally agree with play skills!  

 

They are a separate-but-related area to language here.  

 

There are different kinds of play.  Independent play -- the child playing with toys.  That has different kinds.  I know there is child-as-agent where the child pretends to be the doctor or pretends to cook food.  Object-as-agent play is the child playing with a toy and the toy is doing the things (making the pirate figurine climb up a ladder).  Then group play.  

 

We are not "doing this" but I read a book recently with a chapter about a video modeling program.  My son does well with video modeling (he concentrates well, fewer distractions to him, he likes it) in general and I have been doing it some with him.  

 

There are so, so, so many things to do with play, I think there are great ideas from all areas, not just speech/language.  

 

But this talks about some stages of play http://www.neccautismplay.com/curriculum.html and it is what I read about in this book, and seemed like it would be good for my son.  

 

But there are so many things to do, I try all kinds of things.  

 

We do "introduce new play elements" when he is playing repetitively,but playing repetitively is a start.  It is supposed to be a very, very good way to work on flexibility, too.  

 

I have read through one of the Hanen books and loved it, too.  

 

When my son's therapist does it, examples are -- people are walking across a bridge.  The second time she has her guy fall in and he gets muddy, then he needs a bath.  That is "varying play" and "introducing a new play element."  Or maybe they decide to go swimming and jump in the water.  

 

I am not good at it  but I can try.  

 

My son started out not knowing how to play with a toy car at all, he did not really know to roll it and say vroom vroom.  So that is like -- good for him when he started doing it.  But then he needs to keep going.  

 

But this video modeling thing says to teach 3 play routines with the same set of toys, then vary between them, then add new elements, then hopefully the child will also add new elements.  Using more than one routine from the beginning is supposed to reduce rigidness in how they play with the toy.  

 

My older son made a set of 5 a while ago, for my son to play with an Imagenext castle.  It worked well.  He does not create new things (yet) but he can go along and play *with that play set.*  

 

But I took him to a church event at someone's house last weekend, and he went in the kids' play room and he was able to sit down and play with a little toy set (making some people climb up a ladder and get in a car) that he had never seen before.  It is really good for him, even though -- it is still far from cooperative imaginative play, which is kind-of the pinnacle I think.  

 

OP -- maybe not pertinent toy your daughter, but play is so important, wherever she is at.  

 

At my son's pre-school they have kids who have goals to initiate play and expand play, and then my son spent a lot of time needing to respond to initiations.  So -- it seemed very win win, that those kids could practice with my son, and be able to be good helpers in the class.  I liked that a lot.  My son had some strength areas too, that was just not one for him.  I really liked his pre-school program and he did have IEP goals for things like this, too.  He had a social-emotional section, that is where it would be, instead of under his speech/language goals.  That is just how they do it here, even though one activity could address goals from more than one area, and usually they do.  

 

 

[Joyful Journeys]

Ok serial posting activated, you all are amazing  :grouphug:

Hello!  I'm not certain I can give you any concrete answers but I did want to respond and give you hugs.  Those are tough questions with a child that young, especially since the diagnosis is rather general.   Who actually did the evaluation?  What was their background and qualifications?

 

Honestly, she may need you to just have her on a much slower track for a bit.  I know with DD and DS there are certain things I just had to really SLOOOOOOW down on.  DD13 is only now getting to fractions, for instance, and we have had to work quite a bit, with many different approaches to help her with elapsed time, reading a calendar, etc.  Both kids had to go back to the very basics of reading, as in sound discrimination even before linking sounds to letters, even though they are both highly articulate and were able to recognize letters very early.

 

What really helped me was getting an evaluation that went into a lot of detail and showed me strengths as well as weaknesses.  But both of my kids were older than yours.  DD was 11 and DS was 8.  Also, certain things were not evaluated that I am looking into getting evaluated now since they still have the odd glitch.

 

As for specific curriculum, I don't know that that is what you really need right now but I will mention what I have found helpful for my kids.  I know that Ronit Bird's book Overcoming Difficulty with Numbers has been a big help here.  We also use Barton Reading and Spelling to help with reading and spelling issues. 

 

At this point I guess I would be using a lot of math games, reading a lot to her, listening to audio books with her, playing games with letters, doing fun explorations outside, etc. 

 

If you don't mind my asking, what is the school supposed to be accomplishing for her for this next year?

 

Her evaluation was done by a school psychologist, speech therapist and occupational therapist. A special ed preschool teacher was also on the team among others. Having nothing to compare it to, I feel they were really thorough, seeing her on 3 different occasions and doing a home visit.

 

Per her IEP the goals are:

 

1. Sequence 2-3 steps of a short story or activity given visuals 80% of the time.

2. Follow 2 step directions including spatial concepts (If asked, where something is, she does not regularly say "in", "on" etc.)

3. Respond to "wh" questions given prompts 80% of the time.

4. Given at least 5 pictures, label multiple characteristics. For example once she started saying the animal sounds in Brown Bear Brown Bear, she couldn't say that it's a "brown bear". It's either brown, or a bear, not both.

5. GIven a model, imitate a 3 step pretend play sequence & ascribe feelings/emotions to a figure or herself 80% of the time.

 

I agree yes, we are in no way going to do any sort of "school" this year or maybe even next and I'm really glad I can give her all the time she needs at home! I will check out that book, thank you.

 

I would talk to the speech therapist and her teachers when she starts pre-school.  I hope they will be really helpful.  

 

My son mixes up wh questions.  This is what I am told for him:  who is often easiest.  Then where.  Then when.  Then what.  (Though kids go in different orders and can work on more than one at a time.)   Why and how are the hardest.  There are very concrete wh questions:  who is that? those are easier than questions like "who comes at Christmas," where you have to think of something.  For my son -- he answers questions first with a visual prompt -- this means there are 3-5 pictures out, and the answer is one of the pictures.  Copied from google image most of the time.  I have liked the Level 1 Dora and Diego books for asking very simple comprehension questions, too.  My son does like Dora and Diego, but they are very simple but still have a little bit of a plot.  (For asking questions -- maybe use an easier book than what you would otherwise read her some of the time, it may be easier for her.)  If I ask a question that he can answer with help from the picture in the book, that is easier for him.  For him he is always working from visual to abstract (no picture) b/c that is how he does best.  But I think -- talk to the teachers.  But do remember -- there is a big difference between a question "what is that" that will have a label object as an answer, and "what is Dora doing?" that may require an action verb.  My son spent a while (weeks) labeling pictures (purchased card sets or from google image) of action verbs like running, walking, kicking, jumping, drinking, brushing, etc etc b/c that was a prerequisite skill for him.  Then it is easier if the answer is just saying exactly what is happening in the picture, and harder if you need to understand the content of the story in order to answer.  If she likes a story and will listen to it a few times, but you think she is not quite getting it, just keep explaining when you read it.  Even if you can't see it directly in one or two days, it is helping her over time.  

 

For tenses -- one of his recommendations is to make a visual chart of his schedule or a few things we will do.  Then you can talk about what you did, and use the past tense.  And, talk about what you will do, and use the future tense.  That is like -- more for exposure.  It is a chance to use "first, next, then" language.  It is a chance to talk about the order things happen.  It is more for exposure at first but over time we will be able to use it to ask him questions and have him answer in the past tense for what he did.  Plus -- a visual support to help him remember.  They can be very simple.  A line drawing of a car for a car ride, a picture of a slide for going to the park.  

 

For the "what do you do if..." questions.  Now, my son does not talk like this yet, at all.  I think -- I would talk about simple stories and ask her some simple comprehension questions in a low-key way.  If she doesn't exactly know -- tell her part, get her started, or say it.  Maybe you can read that book again the next day and maybe she will answer more then.  Or after two days or three days.  That is how things start -- while she is just getting the hang of it.  But pick things that are her interest and that she likes, not where she is not interested and you have to quiz her.  

 

Some of the time it is good to really talk simply to her, too, so that you think she is following what you are saying.  If there are some abstract questions she can't answer, ask less abstract questions, or more concrete questions, so that you are asking her things she is able to answer.  Let her answer questions you know she knows the answer to, fairly often, so she will like talking and you have a chance to tell her she is doing great and you are so proud.  Say you are impressed you know her colors and that she can count things.  Just mix in the harder things or things she doesn't know as well a little bit, make sure a lot of your interactions are ones where she can shine with what she can say and answer.  

 

For multi-step directions -- start with one direction, then two.  Make sure she knows what you said.  Maybe have her hold up one finger and say first this, and then he next finger and say and then this.  You could have a picture card for her if you wanted.  If she is not doing two-step directions, don't give her three-step directions, she will probably not be able to do them.  Work on two-step.  If she has trouble with one step -- work on one step.  If she can follow a one step verbal direction -- hey, that is a lot better than if she were not.  

 

If conversations don't continue b/c she does not respond with a question or appropriate comment, you can fill in the blank or tell her "now you ask me blah blah."  Or play it with teddy bears.  But -- don't try to go back-and-forth 10 times, start with modeling or helping her with one more than she currently does.  

 

Those are some strategies we have done.  

 

I hope that you can find out more from the speech therapist and pre-school teachers.  My son has been in special needs pre-school, and I have seen a lot of kids really bloom.  Good luck to you and your daughter!  

 

Edit:  my son who has lower expressive language also has lower receptive language.  Since his receptive language is lower -- I do need to talk to him and read to him at the level of his receptive language a lot of the time, that is where he can understand and do well.  If her receptive language is higher -- then you can read to her and talk to her higher, and you should.  Some kids do have a big gap, my son is one where they are both delayed about the same amount.  You may be able to find this out looking at paperwork if you have that much paperwork yet.  Or -- you may just have a sense of it.  But if not -- hopefully the speech therapist can tell you soon.  

 

:grouphug: Thank you, I'm going to print this out! She'll be on a year round schedule, and I don't want her to lose skills over the break. Just having some things to add to our conversations is perfect. With 3 here, I need to make time to focus on her. I always here "Marsha Marsha Marsha" in my head when I'm telling her to wait as I have to do work with my oldest. It's such a gift to be able to have her go get this assistance and give me a couple hours with just the baby interrupting lol. 

 

Similarly, my DS had an "Arena Evaluation" when he was 3 and he had quite a few expressive language issues.  It's difficult, though, at that age to pinpoint the neurology for learning disabilities to know what is simply a developmental delay versus what is definitely an LD.  As your DD gets older and has some help with her language issues, you may see her problems disappear. As she gets older, it will become clear to you whether she has LD issues or not.  

 

So for now I'd focus on the basics with multisensory or audio-visual types of programs so as to maximize the effectiveness of any program you use.  The easiest route is to use audio-visual apps or programs.  I have some free programs listed (scroll down) for reading, math, and spelling on this webpage: http://learningabledkids.com/multi_sensory_training/free-multisensory-curriculum-online.htm.  I have a page specifically listing interactive reading programs at: http://learningabledkids.com/reading/online-interactive-reading-games-and-programs.htm.  

 

You probably wouldn't need to do a heavy-duty program yet.. Just keep it on the fun side and see if she progresses with the programs you select.  As she approaches 6-7, if you're seeing signs of significant issues with learning to read and do math facts, then you might want to consider a more intense, structured approach.  

 

I don't know if that's the kind of input you were looking for at this time, but feel free to ask questions if you have specific criteria you're wanting to apply to your search for programs.

 

Great point indeed, I'm really hoping that after this school year, she'll have made enough progress that we don't need to continue services. She would only keep getting it if she goes to public school and that's just not going to happen. Thank you for the links!

[Joyful Journeys]

Hi Lilbit,

I've written here about study and research I've been doing for 6 years into something called 'Inner Speech'.

Which you are using as you read this? Where you hear the words, without saying them out loud.

 

But we don't just use Inner Speech for reading?

If you consider how you respond to questions like: "what do you do if 'X' ?"

No doubt you would use Inner Speech to first talk through in your mind, what you would do if X?

So that you can come to a conclusion, and then give a reply.

 

Also if you are given some multi-step directions to follow?

You would also use Inner Speech to recall the directions, as you work through them.

 

But without Inner Speech, one can't reflect on one's thinking and form a considered response?

So that replies are more of a reflex, and not considered.

Where repeating what you just said, out loud.

Needs to be done out loud, if one can't use inner speech.

 

Though inner speech is something that one has to learn how to use.

Where girls often use their dolls for this, where they practice having imaginary conversations with their dolls.

 

This makes so much sense. She rarely plays with dolls for anything other than just carrying them around. I caught her yesterday with her My Little Ponies, actually talking (though I understood none of it) and I think it's the first time I've ever caught her doing this. When asked by the therapists about her pretend play, I said she's fine. But really, after thinking more, she depends on her sister to facilitate all of the speech. Gabi will say "Lili say..x" etc. She'll set up a tea party and bring me food, but doesn't invite dolls or anything else to the floor. 

 

Hi Lilbit, welcome to LC!   :grouphug:  with your evals.  That's always rough to start to get labels.  No matter what, this is not something you did to her or a failure on your part.  However, that said, it is something you can work on throughout the day, like Lecka said, to get those seeds planted and see what can nurture in time with the brain.  My ds has no intellectual disability, but indeed his SLP has worked explicitly with him on wh- words, etc.  In fact, it was pretty much the same age (4.5) when she was bringing those into focus.  It's good that you're catching it so early now and intervening!

 

Lecka's ideas for how to bring it into your day were fabulous.  My ds just needed little nudges.  The more speech you integrate into your day, the better.  When she wants something, have her talk.  Any time you can add little dialogues, do so.  So you might look at a picture book together and add dialogues like "what is it?  It's a ball!  Where is the ball, it's on the dog!"  That kind of thing.  Little efforts you make like that plant seeds.

 

Multi-step directions are hard!  That can be working memory as well as the language processing.  What you might do is separate it out from speech and see what happens.  By chance do you have the preschool activity cards from MFW?  They're really terrific.  You take basic things you have lying around the house and play little games.  Or just wing it and make it up yourself.  So you might spread a field of the little pieces and say pick up the heart and the circle.  Find one green and one blue.  That kind of thing.  Just start low and work up.  At that point it's just working memory.  THEN when her working memory gets higher, then backtrack, take it back down to 1, and have her repeat the instructions.  So you say "find one red" and she repeats "find one red" and then does it.  Then you give her an m&m for doing the task, yum.  But don't just right to doing the working memory AND the speech.  Separate them, kwim?  To repeat the directions is working her motor control, language processing, AND she's using her working memory.  So build one thing up to eliminate it as a problem.  At least that's what our SLP told us to do.  There's a really cool game for it Fistful of Coins.  It's a great game, but the SLP told us to play it this way to build him up to it slowly.

 

Thank you for saying that. I'm happy that I listened to my gut and had her evaluated. At 2 she seemed ok, at 3, a little behind so maybe just one more year to be sure. I'm very much in the "let them be kids" camp and develop at their pace. We moved and I put it off, and I see now that large gaps in where she should be and it kills me that we waited. But had I listened to everyone that said "Oh she's fine!" goodness where would we be?

 

For instance when asked her full name, she said “Because, because I went, I just went tomorrow to my birthday.† She went through a phase and still does at times start everything with "because, because". 

 

Other things she said during play, â€œCan we bubble catch?â€, “Their wings are called flying.†It was hard to read some of it! I've just gotten so used to the way she speaks, filling in the blanks and ordering things, that until I saw it written down, did it really hit me.

 

I would take this a bit further. We know that pretend play at the most basic level needs to be present to have language at all! Therefore, any work you do to move to more complex pretend play pays huge dividends in speech and language development. Play really is the work of children!

 

OP I would really urge you to work on moving her play forward and also look at some materials from super duper publications. They have the language processing program which may be a helpful one for you to look at - especially if her receptive language is in the 18-36 range along with her expressive. You may also want to look at playing barrier games with her. There was a great blog post about barrier games that I have bookmarked on my PC. I am just on the iPad now, but will try to link that later for you.

 

Thank you! I will look into those links, you are so right. I'm looking at her play much more closely and can see how vastly different it is from my oldest. 

[Joyful Journeys]

I totally agree with play skills!  

 

They are a separate-but-related area to language here.  

 

There are different kinds of play.  Independent play -- the child playing with toys.  That has different kinds.  I know there is child-as-agent where the child pretends to be the doctor or pretends to cook food.  Object-as-agent play is the child playing with a toy and the toy is doing the things (making the pirate figurine climb up a ladder).  Then group play.  

 

We are not "doing this" but I read a book recently with a chapter about a video modeling program.  My son does well with video modeling (he concentrates well, fewer distractions to him, he likes it) in general and I have been doing it some with him.  

 

There are so, so, so many things to do with play, I think there are great ideas from all areas, not just speech/language.  

 

But this talks about some stages of play http://www.neccautismplay.com/curriculum.html and it is what I read about in this book, and seemed like it would be good for my son.  

 

But there are so many things to do, I try all kinds of things.  

 

We do "introduce new play elements" when he is playing repetitively,but playing repetitively is a start.  It is supposed to be a very, very good way to work on flexibility, too.  

 

I have read through one of the Hanen books and loved it, too.  

 

When my son's therapist does it, examples are -- people are walking across a bridge.  The second time she has her guy fall in and he gets muddy, then he needs a bath.  That is "varying play" and "introducing a new play element."  Or maybe they decide to go swimming and jump in the water.  

 

I am not good at it  but I can try.  

 

My son started out not knowing how to play with a toy car at all, he did not really know to roll it and say vroom vroom.  So that is like -- good for him when he started doing it.  But then he needs to keep going.  

 

But this video modeling thing says to teach 3 play routines with the same set of toys, then vary between them, then add new elements, then hopefully the child will also add new elements.  Using more than one routine from the beginning is supposed to reduce rigidness in how they play with the toy.  

 

My older son made a set of 5 a while ago, for my son to play with an Imagenext castle.  It worked well.  He does not create new things (yet) but he can go along and play *with that play set.*  

 

But I took him to a church event at someone's house last weekend, and he went in the kids' play room and he was able to sit down and play with a little toy set (making some people climb up a ladder and get in a car) that he had never seen before.  It is really good for him, even though -- it is still far from cooperative imaginative play, which is kind-of the pinnacle I think.  

 

OP -- maybe not pertinent toy your daughter, but play is so important, wherever she is at.  

 

At my son's pre-school they have kids who have goals to initiate play and expand play, and then my son spent a lot of time needing to respond to initiations.  So -- it seemed very win win, that those kids could practice with my son, and be able to be good helpers in the class.  I liked that a lot.  My son had some strength areas too, that was just not one for him.  I really liked his pre-school program and he did have IEP goals for things like this, too.  He had a social-emotional section, that is where it would be, instead of under his speech/language goals.  That is just how they do it here, even though one activity could address goals from more than one area, and usually they do.  

 

I'm trying to envision her play more. She'll take her magformers for instance and link a bunch of them together to be different things (a book, ice skates etc). So she can abstractly use objects in different ways. Though, there is a repetitiveness to it for sure, I've not seen her take it much further. She plays dress up but mainly acts out scenes from movies so I'm not sure what she could play out on her own. This is all quite fascinating, play is amazing.

[Lecka]

My son is over 5 1/2 and he is not quite pretending an object is another item, and not quite acting out scenes from movies.  I think you can ask at pre-school, but for her age, her pretend play might be fine.  I don't know -- but it is good she is doing those things, they are fairly advanced in the scheme of things.  

 

On my son's IEP the wh questions and how are broken down individually.  This may just be b/c he has a need to have it broken down and she doesn't.  But, he is very, very early on why and how, but very decent with who, what, and where, and getting there with when.  If she is farther along she may not need to spend a month on just who questions.  Just commenting.

 

For number one, my son has done things like that, though I am not sure of the goal.  http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Resources-Sequencing-Puzzle-LER1577/dp/B000NZN874/ref=pd_sim_t_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=023TV3TM4A9XFCVN6C4T  I just found this on Amazon, it is not a specific card set he has done.  But it is these kinds of cards.  He learns to put them in order and say things like "first the girl climbs up the slide, then she sits at the top, then she slides down the ladder."  That is the kind of think that goal would mean.  I have bought card sets like that at Target or whatever.  He has needed a lot of practice to grasp the concept but now I think he can do it with new things (not one he has practiced with help).  It is also things like -- there is an egg in a nest, then the egg is cracking, then there is a bird with an egg shell on the ground.  

 

The one with "spatial concepts" -- I think they just mean prepositions.  My son picked up prepositions pretty easily, just by chance that was easier for him.  If you have a box you keep in the kitchen, you can do a little "in, on, under, behind, in front" every time you give her a little snack, with her snack.  That is an easy thing to build in.  I think bath time is another time it is easy, if you just have a box or container things can be in, on, under, or behind.  There is also "next to" and "through."  For through -- through a tunnel can come up in playing if you keep a toilet paper rolll with the toys.  When you have a chance to use prepositions -- some of the time say it really slow and clear for her benefit, to help her pick it up.  I have seen cute things where the mom goes behind a chair and in front of a chair, to make it more fun -- my son liked to do it with his Star Wars guys, though, they were a preferred toy at the time.  

 

For feelings -- my son does sorting and labeling of feelings with pictures from google image or purchased pictures. He needs to see a few examples of the same emotion to get it (not so much -- pointing it out incidentally in a story.... that is still good, but it is not how he picks things up the fastest).  Happy, sad, sleepy/tired, and sick were the ones he started with.  They are easier.  Excited, angry, and scared are next easiest.  I don't know what comes next, that is where he is.  That is pretty good for the age, I am not sure how much that age is understanding embarassed and frustrated and others that are harder.  For him the pictures start with clues beyond the face, like -- happy is a child blowing out birthday candles, sick is a person blowing her nose, sleepy is a child slumped over with eyes closed.  Then the pictures start to have less clues.  That is how it is for him.  Some pictures can be excited and happy, too, that is not wrong if he says the wrong one, it can just be "and happy."  But if she picks things up from incidentally pointing it out -- that is great, she does not need to do it with pictures.  My other kids learned to associate emotions without it, just from talking about things and reading stories and watching tv even.  

 

The other things I am not sure about, but those are some things my son has done.  

 

For the imitating play goal -- it may be more of an imitation goal (can she imitate a 3-step action?) than a "play" goal.  It may just be set up as doing it with play.  Like -- my son has imitation goals that are to copy 3 actions, and it can be "clap, clap, touch his head."  And it can be with toys.  But it is not a "playing" goal, if it is more focused on "can she copy 3 things?"  If it is more about playing, then that is fine, too.  For my son -- he has to be able to imitate/copy easier things and then generalize that to imitating/copying a play sequence, so it is like a prerequisite goal for him.  But I think that seeing if she can copy a pretend play sequence is good, too.  Maybe after that goal is met the next goal can be to play appropriately with a new play set, including 3 actions.  They might have a list of goals in order, and be able to let you see a copy so you can see where things are heading.  But unless you ask -- I don't know if that goal is more about her play skills, or more about her ability to copy a 3-step action.  They might be the same for her, but for my son it makes a difference b/c he might need more instruction in the middle, if that makes sense.  If she can already imitate 3 actions in other ways -- then I think it would be more about play.  But my son has things where it is like -- they say "do this" and put their hands in the air, then on their shoulders, then touch their nose.  Then see if he can do that.  That is not a play skill but it is imitating a sequence of 3 things.  That might be a total non-issue for her, though, just mentioning it I guess.   All the "wheels on the bus," "head shoulders knees and toes" "i'm a little tea pot" "itsy bitsy spider" stuff is good for that --- if it is something she likes and does.  But they are a lot more difficult than saying "do this" and clapping your hands, and seeing if they can imitate that.  My son started there and had to work up to being able to do all the hand motions for wheels on the bus.  He does love wheels on the bus, though, it is a real favorite of his.  

 

But he was able to do that before he copied a video model of my son playing some little play scenarios.  He loved them, though.  They were like:  a car drives up to the castle, someone gets out and knocks on the door and says "can I come in?", someone from inside lets him in, then they climb up a ladder and jump down and ride off in the car together and say "let's go."  That is one of the play scenarios he had.  He does like video modeling, but there is no reason to do it if she does fine with just playing.  If she does not seem to pick it up after a while -- that is a time  you might consider it as an option.  But if she picks it up, it is not something to do.  He had 5 for his castle and a few cars and some Star Wars and Imaginext figurines he liked.  But with your daughter already playing together with her -- that is very good, too.  That means she has a really good play model!  

[geodob]

You wrote: '... she depends on her sister to facilitate all of the speech. Gabi will say "Lili say..x" etc. She'll set up a tea party and bring me food, but doesn't invite dolls or anything else to the floor.'

But if she invited her sister to the tea party?

Then she might invite some dolls, as she would have her sister there, to speak to the dolls for her?

 

But then when the dolls reply, who will speak for them?

Her sister or herself?

Where replying as the doll, requires thinking outside of ourselves,  in the position of the Other?

Then forming a reply from the position of a doll, who has been invited to the tea party?

Then creating a dialogue between herself and the doll.

 

Where I would highlight, creating a dialogue.

As opposed to recalling 'scripts' for a dialogue?

Where I was interested in to read that she will 'dress up but mainly acts out scenes from movies ... .'

Where she is recalling a script, rather than creating a script ?

 

Though I'm looking at this in relation to my research into 'delayed development of inner speech'.

Without the ability to use inner speech, to form sentences/ statements?

What people develop, are a whole range of 'verbal scripts'.

These 'verbal scripts', are then used as a reply/ response.

With scripted replies.

As opposed to using Inner Speech to reflect and form a reply?

 

But then you wrote that you: 'caught her yesterday with her My Little Ponies, actually talking (though I understood none of it) and I think it's the first time I've ever caught her doing this.'

Where this could represent a turning point, in developing a dialogue with the other ?

While you heard her speaking?

What is perhaps more important?

Is whether she was imagining their reply?

Where an imagined reply, would use inner speech.

 

Though a major problem with Inner Speech?

Is that we can't observe or hear someone else using it?

It is a well kept secret.

So that every Infant is left to recognize this ability and develop it on their own.

It is something that is never talked about.

But through my research so far, I have found that a major cause of delayed development of Inner Speech?

Is basically because people never became aware of it, and then developed it.

Where they never even knew that most people can imagine words in their mind.

Where a major step in resolving it, it is to let them know about this secret thing called Inner Speech.

[Joyful Journeys]

So much to think about! Yes, whenever she is playing with her sister, her sister is the one running the show, doing most of the talking. If anything, dd2 will insist that she is a certain character and takes on that role spouting the script verbatim. She's quite good at that actually, reciting things. If she's ever playing alone, there's usually no spoken dialogue as far as I can tell, so yes I was surprised that she was speaking for the ponies at all. It was muffled and tried to ease over and figure out what she was saying and couldn't.