Would you sign this?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Originally Posted by OhM

I would have asked for a list of planned or possible film choices. I'm okay with some more mature themes for my 13yo, but *I* want to have a say in "reasonable" for my dd!

This is why I homeschool. You generally give-up that right while they are in public school.:glare:

I can't speak for all schools, but that's certainly not the case here. When I was teaching school here in NW GA, we had to get everything approved unless it was a simple educational video from the school library.

[Mosaicmind]

Well, because some of us actually have 18 year olds who still seek our opinions on movies. My 18 year old knows I've watched many more movies than he has (many watched during years I didn't censor my viewing at all) and he also knows I have access to www.screenit.com. He will very often ask, "Mom, is _______ fit to see?"

 

Believe it or not, some of us (like me) still "censor" or choose carefully what we put before our eyes, and my 18 year old son is following in those footsteps. We happen to feel that nudity, for example, is something that should be reserved for married couples.

 

We've never rely on the MPAA (or whatever that organization is called) to determine if we will watch a movie, we just let our own conscience decide. We don't call it censoring either, we call it choosing what's best for us. I don't see an age limit where certain things all of the sudden become acceptable. Regardless of how old I get, there are just some things I refuse to watch others act out. It also has nothing to do with what Jedi Arts refers to as a grasp on entertainment vs reality. It has to do with actually believing that the things we watch do indeed impact us regardless of whether they are true or not.

 

Exactly, Thank you. It has nothing to do with censorship imo. It has to do with what are we going to allow ourselves and our dc to view, that could stay with them for a life-time.

 

Take the movie, "Jaws" for instance. I was in grade school when this first came out in theaters and my parents took me to see it. I thought they were the coolest to take me to that movie because alot of my friends weren't allowed to see it. Even to this day, I still have nitemares because of that movie and I cannot go swimming in a lake, river, ocean or any other body of water that is not a swimming pool.

 

I say that allowing yourself or your children to watch questionable movies is just like allowing your sons to view p*rn, what they see will stay with them forever, even if you don't think it will.

[Mosaicmind]

I think I would have to disagree with that. I can tell my 13 yr old they can say something or leave, but I think peer pressure would be too much for many. Maybe not all but many.

 

:iagree: Plus here a child isn't allowed to just leave the classroom, which is why I had to sign my dd's note even though she was 18.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

What I think a lot of people lose sight of is that every child is different. My dd saw Jaws when she was 4. It is one of her dad's favorite movies. No nightmares whatsoever, and as a matter of fact she was laughing at how fake the shark looked. She is still talking about how cool the Joker's makeup was in Dark Night and says she wants to learn to do makeup like that one day.

 

I don't think the teacher is intending to show Debbie Does Dallas in the Spanish class, and I can not think of anything in most rated R movies that would be harmful to a child who was well informed, did not scare easily, and had a good grasp of entertainment vs. reality.

[OhM]

I can not think of anything in most rated R movies that would be harmful to a child who was well informed, did not scare easily, and had a good grasp of entertainment vs. reality.

 

Now see, this is where I think people differ greatly in sensitivity, because I feel that I've been harmed by several R-rated movies! I found out the hard way that I am overly sensitive to rape scenes. They just put me over the edge and disturb me for days. No need to send hugs or anything, I don't have some humongous trauma in my past (but there have been unpleasant episodes that could have become something terrible). But I'm just overly sensitive, and have a great imagination, and get completely wrapped up in movies - the wonder and the violence. I'm not overly concerned with my 13yo hearing a dirty word or a naked backside, but context is everything!

 

So I guess from what you've said - I must not have a good grasp of entertainment vs. reality. Which is okay with me, because I really get into fiction - movies, books. Maybe this is the start of a new thread? Who here gets completely transported by books and movies? Are there others who feel a friend has gone when they finish a particularly engrossing piece of fiction?

 

So I agree with what Nest of 3 (Dawn?) said a couple of pages ago - it's important to guard what you put into your head. You can't un-see it or un-think it after it's done. I wish I had been more careful when I was younger.

[Ashleen]

You said it, "The violence...." Why would she or I want to expose her to something so needless than that? This is one of the reasons for it's rating of "R" Here is what plugged in online had to say that cinched it for us:

 

Dreamlike with its dark creativity and littered with subtext, Pan's Labyrinth is a Spanish-language nightmarish fairy tale that's decidedly not for children. Even most adults won't want to (and shouldn't) indulge its grim excesses. Just as the fairy tale medium began many centuries ago, there are no singing, dancing dwarves or candy-covered gingerbread houses to be found here. Those age-old fables were originally intended to keep both children and grown-ups in check using fear. This story seeks the same result—in reverse. By that I mean that it seeks to keep people from submitting to what can sometimes be mindless checks by filling them with the fear of what happens when you don't think for yourself. (Fascist ideals carry the day, for instance.)

Instead of juxtaposing a beautiful imaginary world with a horrific real one to illustrate how bad things have gotten for Ofelia, writer/director Guillermo del Toro (who helmed Hellboy and Blade II) masterfully parallels Ofelia's ghastly reality with an equally terrifying and ghostly fantasy. The monsters she faces in the ripped-apart wonderland she enters serve as reflections of the ones she interacts with above ground—most prominently, her callous and cruel stepfather.

"I have been fascinated by fairy tales and the mechanics at work in them since my early childhood," del Toro explains. "I have enjoyed reading the original versions of Grimm's Fairy Tales and have always found that the form itself lends easily to deeply disturbing images. Hans Christian Andersen and Oscar Wilde, in fact, have some tales of thinly veiled S&M, full of horrific and brutal moments."

With that in mind, the Mexican filmmaker set out to disturb audiences with horrific and brutal moments. The result is a Saw-meets-Narnia-like film that includes intensely graphic and nauseating violence. Del Toro's unspoken argument is that, to create the effect of humans as monstrous and unfeeling as the beasts that reside in the labyrinth, such atrocities must be shown rather than just hinted at.

That endure-for-the-message approach is somewhat plausible in theory. But when moviegoers begin to notice how much the camera seems to enjoy every gaping gunshot wound and flesh-ripping knifing, it gradually becomes less convincing. And by the time the lens zooms in—and camps out—as the captain takes a needle and thread to his own decimated face, it seems the method has lost all reason.

There's a not-so-fine line between scorning the darkness of humanity and reveling in it. For all the film's well-deserved accolades—and indeed, it is as well-made, thought-provoking and creative a fantasy/war/horror film as you'll find—Pan's Labyrinth smears that boundary just about as frequently as Ofelia crosses back and forth between fact and fiction

 

That about sums it up for me.

 

Sounds like something I wouldn't want to watch either.

[Ashleen]

Exactly, Thank you. It has nothing to do with censorship imo. It has to do with what are we going to allow ourselves and our dc to view, that could stay with them for a life-time.

 

Take the movie, "Jaws" for instance. I was in grade school when this first came out in theaters and my parents took me to see it. I thought they were the coolest to take me to that movie because alot of my friends weren't allowed to see it. Even to this day, I still have nitemares because of that movie and I cannot go swimming in a lake, river, ocean or any other body of water that is not a swimming pool.

 

I say that allowing yourself or your children to watch questionable movies is just like allowing your sons to view p*rn, what they see will stay with them forever, even if you don't think it will.

 

Hmm. I can see what you're saying. For what it's worth, I don't like to watch violent movies or the like. My dad never let me watch horror movies growing up even though all my friends were allowed; he believed the images would stay with me for life. I am glad he didn't allow me to see them, and I've seen only one or two as an adult and have no desire to see more.

 

However, my dad also had other rules about what was allowed or not in movies I saw, and as I got into my late teens I did start to resent it. One time he turned off a movie that was on TV that I was more than an hour into watching because he disapproved of some of the content. I was angry with him then, and to this day I see it as an example of the wrong way to handle a situation.

 

Some of the major ways I rebelled in my late teens and even early twenties were in reaction to what I felt were ridiculous and arbitrary restrictions on what I was allowed to watch. So I can see both sides. I do selectively choose what to watch -- horror and p#rn do not exist in this house -- but I also have strong feelings about censorship (believe me, every book my mom didn't allow when I was a teen was a book I read in secret...I was extremely interested in what exactly she didn't want me to find out!).

[dragons in the flower bed]

:iagree: Plus here a child isn't allowed to just leave the classroom, which is why I had to sign my dd's note even though she was 18.

 

The note specifically said to inform the teacher so she can set up an alternative if the child is uncomfortable. That isn't an issue in this case.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I think I would have to disagree with that. I can tell my 13 yr old they can say something or leave, but I think peer pressure would be too much for many. Maybe not all but many.

 

I guess I think the opposite: that most 13yos would love to show off how different they are. If one of my kids was hesistant to pipe up about his needs and desires, I'd take this as an opportunity to work with him on ways to deal with that. There are some great books out there for young teens on asserting oneself in positive ways.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Now see, this is where I think people differ greatly in sensitivity, because I feel that I've been harmed by several R-rated movies! I found out the hard way that I am overly sensitive to rape scenes. They just put me over the edge and disturb me for days.

 

I freaked out in the middle of Clockwork Orange and had to stop watching, and requested that DP not leave me alone for a day. But I wouldn't really say I was harmed, as in physical injury, material effect, or danger. I was just deeply disturbed.

 

I avoid R rated movies. I saw The Dark Knight, but that's because I love Batman as much as each of my children. I was disturbed there, too, particularly by the audience reaction. It seems that sometime in the past five years, the Joker has become the hero in American consciousness.

[Gretchen in NJ]

This is why I homeschool. You generally give-up that right while they are in public school.:glare:

 

I can't speak for all schools, but that's certainly not the case here. When I was teaching school here in NW GA, we had to get everything approved unless it was a simple educational video from the school library.

 

Our school gave an outside group permission to read a book about Uncle Harry who touches children in bad places in Kindergarten. This happened on a Thursday. That Saturday she was introduce to everybody in the family's favorite uncle, Uncle Harvey. It was not a pretty picture. Her scream could be heard for quite a distance. She would not go near him.

 

In first grade, the same group taught the children to hide from their parents if they drink. You need to have a secert place that your parents do not know about. :001_huh:

 

I was able to pull her out the in 1st grade, but recent court decisions in CA and MA have ruled against a parent right to be able to pull your children out of the classroom during certain lessons.

[Raders Fan]

When we lived in Nevada, our local schools regularly showed R-rated movies. The administrators and teachers didn’t really care what parents thought. To protest was to invite a lower grade and difficulties with administration for the rest of high school. My 12th grade bil continued to protest one film and was offered the alternative assignment of a term paper. He didn’t have time to write the paper and so had to watch the movie, which he labeled “pure porn.â€

[dragons in the flower bed]

To protest was to invite a lower grade and difficulties with administration for the rest of high school.

 

Yikes. In that sort of environment, I wouldn't sign the form.

[tibbyl]

Jaws? Fantastic. My favorite horror flick. The antagonist is at his scariest when you cannot see him but just anticipate his presence.

 

Liked your brief analysis of Pan's Labryinth, nmoira. But I do have to have a certain mindset to watch unwarranted human to human violence. At that time in our homeschool, we had been studying Pinochet's ousting of Allende. Film inspired us to spend a few hours on the Spanish Civil War, the International Brigades, and the unavoidable suffering of civilians in wartime.

[lighthouseacademy]

nope- I wouldn't sign it. I don't agree with allowing my child to view any movie and I wouldn't give a blank check either.

[cathmom]

you are all very wise!

 

i taught spanish last year and searched hard for appropriate spanish movies to show in one of my classes. i am now convinced they don't exist!

 

the school counselor recommended pan's labrynth to me twice, but after reading the reviews i knew i didn't want to see it myself!

 

sorry no caps - sleeping baby on my right arm!

[JudyJudyJudy]

Our school gave an outside group permission to read a book about Uncle Harry who touches children in bad places in Kindergarten. This happened on a Thursday. That Saturday she was introduce to everybody in the family's favorite uncle, Uncle Harvey. It was not a pretty picture. Her scream could be heard for quite a distance. She would not go near him.

 

In first grade, the same group taught the children to hide from their parents if they drink. You need to have a secert place that your parents do not know about. :001_huh:

 

I was able to pull her out the in 1st grade, but recent court decisions in CA and MA have ruled against a parent right to be able to pull your children out of the classroom during certain lessons.

That's awful. Things apparently are quite different here. Regardless, my time as a public educator convinced me even more that my son would be homeschooled. I taught five years before ever having a child (before even being married), and then I taught in a temporary position for 21 weeks last school year (dh is self-employed and took care of ds during that time). I couldn't believe how much worse things are now than they were when I taught 15 years ago.

[Haiku]

dd has a good grasp on entertainment vs. reality.

 

So do I. But disturbing images are disturbing images, be they real or "entertainment." If they didn't have power, movies wouldn't exist. No point in rushing to desensitize children.

 

FTR, I found Pan's Labyrinth gross. I was very disappointed with that movie.

 

Tara

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

So do I. But disturbing images are disturbing images, be they real or "entertainment." If they didn't have power, movies wouldn't exist. No point in rushing to desensitize children.

 

FTR, I found Pan's Labyrinth gross. I was very disappointed with that movie.

 

Tara

 

 

Remember that some people are more disturbed by images than others. I am not "rushing" to "desensitize" my child. She is just the kind of kid that can handle certain things. Our whole family is like this though.

[Haiku]

Remember that some people are more disturbed by images than others. I am not "rushing" to "desensitize" my child. She is just the kind of kid that can handle certain things. Our whole family is like this though.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative. How old is your daughter? She's somewhere between and 7 and 10, isn't she? Are you saying you would allow her to watch Pan's Labyrinth? If you would, you think she wouldn't be disturbed by it?

 

Tara

[OnTheBrink]

No, I wouldn't sign it.

 

Yes, I'd most likely correct the spelling and grammar.

 

And, my 21 year old son left the theatre during Pan's to throw up.

[Kris]

Well, I was definitely not the only parent with "concerns", but I may have had the mildest response! By the time dd got to 3rd period Spanish, the teacher already had a printed note copied with a response to the uproar. It says that she made a mistake and gave the Spanish I and Spanish IV kids the same form - but Spanish I kids wouldn't be watching anything w/nudity, and everything would be rated no worse than PG-13.

 

See -- this wouldn't make me feel any better. Okay, so the Spanish I kids wouldn't be watching anything with nudity, but I don't think the Spanish IV kids should be watching it *at school* either!

[LilyK]

I took 4 years of excellent high school French, and 5 years of college French. In 9 years, I never saw one movie. We did listen to language tapes in lab, but class time was for teaching and practicing conversation. I wouldn't sign the form for many of the reasons that have already been stated, but I really wonder why these teachers need to show movies instead of actually teaching. I would politely ask this if I were you. But then, I'm a pill.

[Haiku]

I really wonder why these teachers need to show movies instead of actually teaching.

 

Probably because it's a practical application of learning a foreign language. In high school and college German we watched Deutsche Welle, a German-language news program. It's a whole lot different watching a tv program than it is conversing with your classmates and your teacher.

 

Tara

[LaMere Academy]

You said it, "The violence...." Why would she or I want to expose her to something so needless than that? This is one of the reasons for it's rating of "R" Here is what plugged in online had to say that cinched it for us:

 

Dreamlike with its dark creativity and littered with subtext, Pan's Labyrinth is a Spanish-language nightmarish fairy tale that's decidedly not for children. Even most adults won't want to (and shouldn't) indulge its grim excesses. Just as the fairy tale medium began many centuries ago, there are no singing, dancing dwarves or candy-covered gingerbread houses to be found here. Those age-old fables were originally intended to keep both children and grown-ups in check using fear. This story seeks the same result—in reverse. By that I mean that it seeks to keep people from submitting to what can sometimes be mindless checks by filling them with the fear of what happens when you don't think for yourself. (Fascist ideals carry the day, for instance.)

Instead of juxtaposing a beautiful imaginary world with a horrific real one to illustrate how bad things have gotten for Ofelia, writer/director Guillermo del Toro (who helmed Hellboy and Blade II) masterfully parallels Ofelia's ghastly reality with an equally terrifying and ghostly fantasy. The monsters she faces in the ripped-apart wonderland she enters serve as reflections of the ones she interacts with above ground—most prominently, her callous and cruel stepfather.

"I have been fascinated by fairy tales and the mechanics at work in them since my early childhood," del Toro explains. "I have enjoyed reading the original versions of Grimm's Fairy Tales and have always found that the form itself lends easily to deeply disturbing images. Hans Christian Andersen and Oscar Wilde, in fact, have some tales of thinly veiled S&M, full of horrific and brutal moments."

With that in mind, the Mexican filmmaker set out to disturb audiences with horrific and brutal moments. The result is a Saw-meets-Narnia-like film that includes intensely graphic and nauseating violence. Del Toro's unspoken argument is that, to create the effect of humans as monstrous and unfeeling as the beasts that reside in the labyrinth, such atrocities must be shown rather than just hinted at.

That endure-for-the-message approach is somewhat plausible in theory. But when moviegoers begin to notice how much the camera seems to enjoy every gaping gunshot wound and flesh-ripping knifing, it gradually becomes less convincing. And by the time the lens zooms in—and camps out—as the captain takes a needle and thread to his own decimated face, it seems the method has lost all reason.

There's a not-so-fine line between scorning the darkness of humanity and reveling in it. For all the film's well-deserved accolades—and indeed, it is as well-made, thought-provoking and creative a fantasy/war/horror film as you'll find—Pan's Labyrinth smears that boundary just about as frequently as Ofelia crosses back and forth between fact and fiction

 

That about sums it up for me.

There are movies out there I hope my children as adults don't even want to see and I tell them that. Just because someone made something sick and disgusting doesn't mean we need to watch it and have those images in our minds. I know I see movies and what's in them stays with me...I'm thinking right now of Gone Baby Gone...the little boy? It haunts me. I will censor what my children see until they move out of our home. There's too much sick garbage out there. If they choose to see it on their own as adults, then that will be their choice. No way would I give permission for my child, even at 18 to view the movie described above.

[LilyK]

Probably because it's a practical application of learning a foreign language. In high school and college German we watched Deutsche Welle, a German-language news program

 

 

I can understand that. A news program is very language dense. It would serve the same purpose as the tapes in languagae lab that I mentioned in my previous post. Pan's Labyrinth, however, is minimal in dialogue,and in my imho, a waste of valuable class time (if learning Spanish is your objective.)

 

That said, my daughter is in her first year of Spanish. Every weekend, I plan on assigning a viewing of a kid's dvd dubbed in Spanish. I believe nearly all dvd's have this option, so we will literally never run out of choices. We are going to start with Saw I- IV :eek:. JK. We are going to start with Penelope and then go through all the Pirates OTC movies.