Why is the Duchess of Cambridge still referred to as Kate Middleton yet no ones says "William Mountbatten-Windsor"? Doesn't seem right.

[Ellie]

in our house we call her Princess Kate.  We know that is incorrect but we still like to call her that. It is not like the Royal Title Police will be coming to our house.

 

also my dh is a college professor and has his PhD.  He prefers that his students call him Professor rather than Dr.  Other professionals tend to call him Dr. tho.

 

Did y'all ever watch "All Creatures Great and Small"? The vets in that show were Mr., not Dr.

 

It hasn't always been common to refer to pastors of churches/ministers as Rev. Whatsit; unless they were ordained (and not all pastors of churches are) there was a time when they were also called Mr..

[InterestingCase]

I'm quite old-fashioned.  I prefer only medical degree's being called "doctor" socially, which used to be the standard.  cuts down on confusion. (my dd receives her non medical doctorate next year. though it is an ancillary medical field. She starts her rotations in august. I would expect her to continue to go by "miss" socially.) 

 

Not all doctorates are PhDs (re: philosophy doctorate), so I'm not using that abbreviation.  I know other's in possession of doctorates in non-medical fields who also go by Miss/ms. or Mr. socially.  I also know some who are not medical dr's, but who insist on being called "dr." by one and all. one in particular who was insufferably pompous.  (and would have been that way even without any degree.)

 

both of my girls attended a small university - where most profs had at least one doctorate.  1dd said most of the best profs went by their first name and had great relationships with their students - everyone treated them with respect even though they weren't going by "doctor" (even those holding multiple doctorates.) that wasn't her experience with those few who did demand being called dr.  it's that concept of "if you have to tell everyone how smart/great/whatever you are - you probably aren't." 

 

it would be perfectly appropriate to refer to any of the above as "mr".  we do not live in an aristocracy. 

 

I wish I could find miss manners column on the subject, something about old titles,  new titles and opening umbrellas in people faces.  (it is in one of her earlier books, but I'm not up to a hunting expedition.)

 

[InterestingCase]

Actually, the history of the title of Dr. indicates it has as close an affinity with academic as medical professionals. 

 

This being said, I do not insist on my title and most of my students call me by my first name. I don't like being called Mrs. X, because I did not take my husband's last name, so Mrs. X is my mother's name, not mine. I am not a Miss, so that will not work. Students do not use Ms. much in my experience, though I did see it used more in the past.

 

I think one of the reasons that some instructors insist on using Dr. (beyond the fact that they earned it) is so many are working as adjuncts and not granted the esteem or pay of being a professor despite long hours of work. In my department, over 65% of the faculty consists of adjuncts that cannot call themselves professor, but do have every right to claim the title of Dr.

 

Sorry, I know that was a bit off topic.

[InterestingCase]

And, sorry about the trouble with the quote; I am not sure what happened.

[gardenmom5]

Because of a JD degree? That's messed up.

it's a doctorate. One reason I only call medical types Dr.

[InterestingCase]

A Doctor holds a doctorate; it can be in a variety of areas. I am a Doctor of Philosophy and I have my doctorate in Philosophy. 

[gardenmom5]

 

 

I think one of the reasons that some instructors insist on using Dr. (beyond the fact that they earned it) is so many are working as adjuncts and not granted the esteem or pay of being a professor despite long hours of work. In my department, over 65% of the faculty consists of adjuncts that cannot call themselves professor, but do have every right to claim the title of Dr.

 

Sorry, I know that was a bit off topic.

 

this was not the case where my girls attended uni. (or in my own experience.) some of those demanding they be called dr were in their 40's/50's and were full professors.  (their school had about 98% terminal degrees among their instructors. mostly doctorates, but not all.)  the dept heads also went by first names.  even the visiting instructors went by first names.

 

frankly - if any teacher can't command respect by virtue of their personality and knowledge of the subject they are teaching, I tremble to think how they would expect to get students to actually respect and listen to them except out of fear for their grade.  generally, the ones demanding they be called dr were not the "better" instructors, but demonstrated a weakness in their own self-confidence in their worth.

 

makes me think of the fto thread going on.

 

[InterestingCase]

This is getting even more off topic, so I will stop after this, but the increase in adjuncts is a critical issue in academia. I am an adjunct by choice (kids keep me busy enough)and receive benefits and a pension, but many others are not in my situation.

 

I see numerous articles about this, but here is one to support what I am saying: http://chronicle.com/article/Adjuncts-Build-Strength-in/135520/

 

Adjunct percentages at higher learning institutions average about 70%.

 

While I was working on my dissertation, I was hired by a private university to teach freshman composition. I had three courses of about thirty students each. My take home pay per month was $800 (2001). This same institution was charging each of my students about $3000 each to take the course. 

 

In my area, few of my colleagues routinely use their titles, but they have earned the right to do so if they choose.

[LucyStoner]

it's a doctorate. One reason I only call medical types Dr.

Yes, I get that but I've never met any JDs who expected to be called Dr in either a professional or social setting. It's ridiculous.

[fdrinca]

I know from experience that I don't reply when I'm called "doctor." It almost makes me feel like I've faked my PhD :)

 

The culture at DH's new university is to call all professors "doctor." Every time I hear one of his students address him, I laugh a little inside. It sounds so absurd to my ears.

 

(Now, in the right circumstances I am quite fond of adding those three hard-earned letters after my name...)

 

 

 

[Laura Corin]

In Britain, surgeons are called 'Mr', etc., presumably to distinguish them.  I think vets are usually called Mr. etc.  Dentists seem to go either way.  PhDs are often called 'Dr', particularly in academic circumstances, I think because there is usually only one professor per department - all the others are lecturers or readers.

 

L

[Mom in High Heels]

Technically, Camilla is the Princess of Wales, and should be styled.  I know they don't use that title, because of the whole Diana thing, but that is her title since she's married to the Prince of Wales.  She uses his second highest title, Duchess of Cornwall instead or Duchess of Rothesay, when in Scotland, as that's the highest title he holds in Scotland (aside from the PoW).  She would not be called Princess Camilla though, as she is not a princess of royal blood.  Only princesses born to the royal house are princesses in their own rights (Princess Ann, Princess Beatrice, Princess Eugenie).  All others would be called Princess [Husband's first name], like Princess Michael of Kent and Princess Andrew of Greece.  Both were (IIRC) nobility before marriage, but not princesses of royal families.   Camilla would be Princess Charles, or Camilla, Princess of Wales.  When he becomes king, she is technically the queen consort, but has said she would use the title princess consort instead, so she would be Camilla, Princess Consort, and not Princess Camilla.  Clear as mud?

 

A queen married to a king (who is the rightful holder of the throne) is called queen [first name], but other than Queen Mary, of William and Mary, she cannot rule after her husband's death.  William and Mary were given the title king and queen jointly (it's a long story), so had William died first, she would have ruled in her own right, but she died first, and he continued to rule until his own death.  Prince Phillip is is called the Prince Consort, as there isn't an equivalent, such as king consort, for male spouses married to queens who inherit the throne.  

 

I forgot to quote it, but someone mentioned Wills becoming PoW after Charles becomes king, but that's not a given.  The heir to the throne is not automatically the PoW.  It is a title bestowed upon by the reigning monarch, and does not have to be given.  The title is not automatic and cannot be inherited; it must be "bestowed."  Charles was not made PoW until he was 9, and since Elizabeth was her father's heir, there was no PoW until Charles was given the title.  It can only be given to the heir apparent, not an heir presumptive.  If Charles dies before Elizabeth, William would not become the PoW, because he is not the first born son of Elizabeth, IIRC.  Even though he would become the heir apparent, he is not the eldest son of the Queen  Any female heir could not have been given the title, though they were frequently given the income and lands that accompany a title, because if a son was born, she would be bumped down in the line of succession, so she is considered the heir presumptive, not the heir apparent.  There have been long periods with no PoW, and the lands and income are reverted back to the monarchy until the reigning monarch decides to bestow it on their heir apparent.

 

I only know so much about PoW, because I was assigned a research paper on the title for a history class in college.  This was long before the internet and google, so it was real, book research, and a PITA.  I'm amazed that I remember as much as I do.

[Melissa in Australia]

In Britain, surgeons are called 'Mr', etc., presumably to distinguish them.  I think vets are usually called Mr. etc.  Dentists seem to go either way.  PhDs are often called 'Dr', particularly in academic circumstances, I think because there is usually only one professor per department - all the others are lecturers or readers.

 

L

Surgeons and dentists here are called Mr. as well. One dentist did explain it to me one time but I cannot remember exactly - something to do with Mr. being a higher qualification than Dr. or something like that.

 

 

edited to add,

I looked it up and found out that Mr. is considered a badge of honor above Dr. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119265/

[Laura Corin]

 Any female heir could not have been given the title, though they were frequently given the income and lands that accompany a title, because if a son was born, she would be bumped down in the line of succession, so she is considered the heir presumptive, not the heir apparent.  

 

This has now been changed: the first child of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge would have been next in line, whether male or female.

 

Another little-understood title is 'Princess Royal'.  It is not, as often thought, automatically given to the monarch's eldest daughter.  Instead, it was bestowed on Princess Anne in recognition of her charitable work.  There's a day in the life of the Princess Royal here.

 

L

[Mom in High Heels]

This has now been changed: the first child of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge would have been next in line, whether male or female.

 

Another little-understood title is 'Princess Royal'.  It is not, as often thought, automatically given to the monarch's eldest daughter.  Instead, it was bestowed on Princess Anne in recognition of her charitable work.  There's a day in the life of the Princess Royal here.

 

L

 

Yes, I forgot to bring that up.  Of course Will and Kate don't have to deal with that as they had a boy first.  ;)  

 

I don't get the whole Princess Royal business.  I know it's not automatic, and sure, it's nice, but what's the point?

[Laura Corin]

I don't get the whole Princess Royal business.  I know it's not automatic, and sure, it's nice, but what's the point?

 

I suspect that it was to point out that Princess Anne had actually been doing something all these years.  It might even be a recognition that Princess Anne would make a better monarch in Elizabeth's image than Charles will.

 

ETA: Princess Anne has a sense of decorum that her brothers lack - she even pulled off divorce and remarriage without scandal, as far as I remember.

 

L

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I'm old fashioned. I dreamed of being "Mrs. _____" for a long time. No one calls me Mrs. Warde in real life. :( it's weird to me to be called just my first name by friends'/acquaintances' children. I prefer at least "Miss First Name" or "Auntie First Name" as my best friend's kids did. But we moved, and NO ONE does that here. This is why my internet name everywhere is Mrs. Warde. :P

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Oh, and Dh works for dentists and I call all of them Dr. Last Name and so does Dh. Dentists get so often "oh, you're not a REAL doctor" even though they go to medical school and THEN dental school. So I show that respect.

[LucyStoner]

Oh, and Dh works for dentists and I call all of them Dr. Last Name and so does Dh. Dentists get so often "oh, you're not a REAL doctor" even though they ho to medical school and THEN dental school. So I show that respect.

Dentists don't go to medical school before dental school. Dentistry programs are open to qualified applicants with bachelor degrees. I know no dentist who did 4 years of medical school and then went to dental school. I respect my dentist tremendously - he's 17 kinds of awesome but honestly, one reason I like him is he introduces himself by his name.