butterfly113 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 If your dc are STEM / engineering oriented students, which Geometry texts/curriculum have you used? Liked the most? Found to be the best fit? Foerster's is the text we will use for Algebra 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I am going to try that Jurgensons for geometry. I used Jacobs last time. Honestly, I think Jacobs is an incredible book, I didn't like the style that much. But it is high quality. I would pick between Jacobs or Foersters every step of the way, depending on the style you prefer. Both seem to be wonderful and complete texts. I already own Foersters algebra 2 and trig and precal book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 We used Saxon Geometry for DS18 because he liked Saxon. We used it again for DD because I had it on hand. It's a solid geomey book with plenty of proofs. I also liked the Jacobs book, but didn't buy it since we had the other already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Listening in. AOPS is on my radar, as is Birkhoff's and Solomonvich's per Raptordad's suggestions in this thread: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/514183-epic-thread-of-geometry-programs-or-geometry-thread-of-epic-proportions/?p=5641621 DD will do the geometry chapters in Singapore DM so if we do decide to do a separate geometry course, I want it to be a step up in challenge level from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 We loved Foerster's. Tried to use Jacob's Geometry, but had to abandon it because it did not fit ds's learning style nor my teaching style. We used Discovering Geometry by Michael Serra. More in this thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I have used AoPS Intro to Geometry with both of my students. They learned a ton. Lots of proofs - they prove absolutely everything (with the exception of a few formulas that would require calculus to prove). Very strong on analytical geometry, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterfly113 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 We loved Foerster's. Tried to use Jacob's Geometry, but had to abandon it because it did not fit ds's learning style nor my teaching style. We used Discovering Geometry by Michael Serra. More in this thread. I checked out that thread, as well as the "Epic Geometry" thread... Now, with keeping in mind that DS is headed into an aerospace engineering career, with becoming a pilot as a top priority, I'm trying to find balance with it all. How heavy in proofs should the text be for a student interested in this direction? Our high school goal math wise is for him to complete calculus... And depending on test scores he is considering the AF Academy, Naval Academy, possibly Merchant Marines Academy.... Embry Riddle, GA tech, Liberty University, University of North Dakota... So heavy of a concentration of proofs should there be? AoPS would probably drive him out of his mind... I've read good things of Jacobs, is it sufficeint with his goals? Jurgensen's? Geometry: a Guided Inquiry with math without borders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterfly113 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 I have used AoPS Intro to Geometry with both of my students. They learned a ton. Lots of proofs - they prove absolutely everything (with the exception of a few formulas that would require calculus to prove). Very strong on analytical geometry, too. Is this necessary heading into the field of aviation? He wants to be a pilot. If that is not his actual job, he says he will still get his private pilots license. He's a determined kiddo! He is also interested in the design, research and test aspects of aviation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Is this necessary heading into the field of aviation? He wants to be a pilot. If that is not his actual job, he says he will still get his private pilots license. He's a determined kiddo! He is also interested in the design, research and test aspects of aviation... I am not sure what you mean by "this". If you refer to AoPS - no, this is not the only good math curriculum. If you refer to proofs and analytical geometry - yes, absolutely. I have no idea what becoming a pilot entails, but if he is interested in design and research, that would be aerospace engineering and require a ton of higher math ( at our school required: calc 1-3, differential equations, linear algebra and/or statistics) ETA: the main reason why a student heading for a STEM career should study geometrical proofs is that this is the field where it is easiest to be introduced to the idea and technique of mathematical proofs, making it much easier to deal with proofs in higher math. Not to mention that this is unsurpassed training of formal logical reasoning . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in MA Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 We used Jurgenson's Geometry and liked it a lot. We also used the other books in that series: Algebra Structure & Method, Books 1 & 2 and Advanced Mathematics. From what I've read, these aren't as intense/time consuming as AOPS, but they gave my son a very, very good foundation in higher maths. He has gone on to do well in Calculus and on the SAT math section. I liked the fact that Jurgenson's had built-in algebra review so the student didn't forget Algebra 1 the year he was doing Geometry. I also used the Saxon series with my other son and would not recommend it. He learned to memorize algorithms with Saxon and not really think deeply about math. Brenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 If you refer to proofs and analytical geometry - yes, absolutely. I don't remember proofs in college but that was a long time ago. Ds at USAFA, OTOH, mentioned having to write a paragraph style proof for every problem in calculus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I also love AoPS Geometry. I did it first with my math loving son. I thought I'd head a different direction with my second as he doesn't like math as well. After looking at a bunch of Geometry textbooks, I decided that I'd at least start AoPS geometry with my second and see how it goes - it is going well. I have also used AoPS in tutoring students that are behind in math - but in reality just needed math explained better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterfly113 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 I am not sure what you mean by "this". If you refer to AoPS - no, this is not the only good math curriculum. If you refer to proofs and analytical geometry - yes, absolutely. I have no idea what becoming a pilot entails, but if he is interested in design and research, that would be aerospace engineering and require a ton of higher math ( at our school required: calc 1-3, differential equations, linear algebra and/or statistics) ETA: the main reason why a student heading for a STEM career should study geometrical proofs is that this is the field where it is easiest to be introduced to the idea and technique of mathematical proofs, making it much easier to deal with proofs in higher math. Not to mention that this is unsurpassed training of formal logical reasoning . I have read that AOPS is definitely an excellent geometry curriculum, and is known to be one of the most rigorous. I am just afraid to push him over the edge of no return... I also agree that geometrical proofs are essential in building his foundation in higher math. And with his interest in design and research, it should not be overlooked. I am just trying to figure out the best balance for him with more than adequate foundational preparation for college level maths and sciences in his desired field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 How heavy in proofs should the text be for a student interested in this direction? So heavy of a concentration of proofs should there be? AoPS would probably drive him out of his mind... I've read good things of Jacobs, is it sufficient with his goals? Jurgensen's? Geometry: a Guided Inquiry with math without borders? Jacob's is considered a rigorous Geometry program. I had not heard of Jurgensen's back when I was investigating options. I would definitely investigate it if I had to do it over again. Holt is another one I would investigate. I never really investigated AoPS because I suspected that it would not have gone over well here. I will say that Discovering Geometry was "lite" on proofs. FWIW, I have a bachelor's in math and computer science and a master's in Industrial Engineering. Geometry was the only math class I ever hated, and it was because of the proofs, thus I chose to slack a bit in that area. I don't think it hurt ds. He's heading to an engineering school in the fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateLeft Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterfly113 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 My University of North Dakota engineering kid used Chalkdust for Geometry. :) SkateLeft, DS14 has his eyes on UND for their Aerospace Engineering Program and flight school! How has your dc's experience been? Did he/she complete calculus in high school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I've read good things of Jacobs, is it sufficeint with his goals? It worked for ds, graduating from USAFA this year and heading off to flight school. However, that was our first year homeschooling and I had never heard of, much less investigated, AOPS, Jurgenson or Birkhoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Many well regarded prep schools use Jurgenson for good reason. It's a very well written classical Geometry text. Currently I am reviewing online Geometry courses for the Fall and am leaning toward Wilson Hill Academy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGrief Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 We used the dreaded Teaching Textbooks geometry. :-) My then-ninth grader got a 76 on her PSAT math score, and a 750 on her Math 2 SAT subject test score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I checked out that thread, as well as the "Epic Geometry" thread... Now, with keeping in mind that DS is headed into an aerospace engineering career, with becoming a pilot as a top priority, I'm trying to find balance with it all. How heavy in proofs should the text be for a student interested in this direction? Our high school goal math wise is for him to complete calculus... And depending on test scores he is considering the AF Academy, Naval Academy, possibly Merchant Marines Academy.... Embry Riddle, GA tech, Liberty University, University of North Dakota... So heavy of a concentration of proofs should there be? AoPS would probably drive him out of his mind... I've read good things of Jacobs, is it sufficeint with his goals? Jurgensen's? Geometry: a Guided Inquiry with math without borders? Engineers generally need more applied math and future theoretical sciences people tend to need proof based. It sounds like he is going for the applied science route. If so, I would not worry about proof heavy. Also, Jacobs has a lot for proofs, not proof-lite at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterfly113 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Engineers generally need more applied math and future theoretical sciences people tend to need proof based. It sounds like he is going for the applied science route. If so, I would not worry about proof heavy. Also, Jacobs has a lot for proofs, not proof-lite at all. He has first choice plans to be a pilot. He is also interested in UAV/drones, design, research and testing aspects. Do you have any thoughts/comments on Jacobs vs Jurgensen, or Geometry: A Guided Inquiry, or AoPS?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 We used Jurgenson's Geometry and liked it a lot. We also used the other books in that series: Algebra Structure & Method, Books 1 & 2 and Advanced Mathematics. From what I've read, these aren't as intense/time consuming as AOPS, but they gave my son a very, very good foundation in higher maths. He has gone on to do well in Calculus and on the SAT math section. I liked the fact that Jurgenson's had built-in algebra review so the student didn't forget Algebra 1 the year he was doing Geometry. We have done the same math sequence as Brenda, and my kids have all excelled at both the math parts of standardized tests and math at the college level. This sequence does an AMAZING job teaching kids both math skills and a solid understanding of the concepts involved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half-Elven Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I am going to try that Jurgensons for geometry. I used Jacobs last time. Honestly, I think Jacobs is an incredible book, I didn't like the style that much. But it is high quality. I would pick between Jacobs or Foersters every step of the way, depending on the style you prefer. Both seem to be wonderful and complete texts. I already own Foersters algebra 2 and trig and precal book. Hello Elisabet1, We used Foerster Algebra 1 this year, it is going well. I'm in such a quandary about Geometry though. Wanted to know how Jurgensen's went this year? I need to decide and get one for my DD for the fall. I borrowed Jurgensens from our library. It looks thorough, but there are only 2 examples per lesson! This is what is "stopping" me from getting it. I like the many examples in Foerster. Seems like the examples need to come from the "Class Exercises" where I would have to demonstrate and work the examples out. I'm not afraid of math, but it will take more time. Would you recommend Jurgensens? What do you like about it? Pros and cons over Jacobs Geometry? Any information would be helpful, hard being so undecided. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 We used Euclid's Elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 While it is true that engineers need more applied math, the power of learning proof in AoPS is not for the skill of writing mathematical proofs, but the logic and thinking skills developed along the way. I think it is fantastic for engineering minded kids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Hello Elisabet1, We used Foerster Algebra 1 this year, it is going well. I'm in such a quandary about Geometry though. Wanted to know how Jurgensen's went this year? I need to decide and get one for my DD for the fall. I borrowed Jurgensens from our library. It looks thorough, but there are only 2 examples per lesson! This is what is "stopping" me from getting it. I like the many examples in Foerster. Seems like the examples need to come from the "Class Exercises" where I would have to demonstrate and work the examples out. I'm not afraid of math, but it will take more time. Would you recommend Jurgensens? What do you like about it? Pros and cons over Jacobs Geometry? Any information would be helpful, hard being so undecided. Thanks! Not Elisabet1, but we've used Jurgensen this school year and are nearing the finish now. It has been an excellent text with a strong emphasis on proofs. We thoroughly enjoyed using it while attending WilsonHillAcademy. Having a highly skilled instructor available to provide elaboration of the concepts, grade the proofs and answer all ds13's questions was money well spent, worth every penny for us. There are actually a lot of support options for Jurgensen including these free, full lectures covering the entire text: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6BEUDglnGZv5miNh-nMTtpHCM-HHhk2A Here is one recent thread discussing some of the other support options: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/542377-jurgenson-geometry/?hl=%2Bjurgensen&do=findComment&comment=6216417 Are you open to an outside teacher? Or do you prefer doing it yourself? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Whoops, zombie thread. My apologies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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