Red Wagon Tutorials

[emzhengjiu]

Are these tutorials worth the cost?  I'm considering them for chemistry.  From the website, it appears the tutorials are only available for a limited period of time.  That seems so strange.

[EowynR]

We took RW General Science this year. You will be the enforcer at home -- you will need to put in the time to ensure that the labs are done at home and that the lab reports meet a high criteria before submitting them.

He's highly engaging, but there's no talking in the class. They're lectures, not really discussion where the students interact. We have a local chemistry teacher with a master's degree in chem - the labs will be done as a class. I really think that's a better way to spend my outsourcing dollars. Community college will have the proper equipment, too. It just depends on how much you want out of a chemistry class, I think.

[Pemberley]

We have a reserved spot with RWT for this coming year for chemistry, but something is not feeling right about it now, and I don't know what it is.  
I watched his sample video of his lecture and it's really that...a lecture while the students look at screen shots of webpages.  I emailed the teacher and asked if the students are supposed to read the text on the screen or what.  
Example:  He shows a wiki page on Newton and talks about Newton.  There was a lot of text on my computer screen to look at while he talked...if he just wanted to show a picture of Newton, he could have chosen something more appropriate for that.

Anyway, his email response was a tad demeaning...it was basically, "I'll do what I think is best. Mind your own business."

That didn't really turn me off since, let's face it, he is the expert and I am not, but the thought of spending an hour looking at wiki pages for science and knowing that my teacher is demanding near perfection might be a bit much for me...and my son...thereby sucking the "fun" out of science.

 

I honestly don't know what we will do as fall approaches.  Obviously RWT has quite a following or they wouldn't have full classes up through the year 2016!  

 

The only reason we looked at them was because Dr. Wile made the suggestion that we look into RWT.

 

Anyway, that may not help much, but that gives you and anyone else reading an idea of what we have seen so far.

 

We LOVE Dr. Wile's books - but we are also considering Conceptual Chemistry since it has free videos to correlate with the book lessons made by the author himself. :)

[Tenaj]

My son used the Red Wagon DVD's for Chemistry and it seemed to really help him through that class.  He hated the lectures but we figured out quickly that if he took notes, he did really well on the tests.

 

OTOH, he also used the DVD's for Physics this year and it didn't work out so well.  He bombed several tests in a row so we went back to just reading the text and taking good notes and it's been the magic cure.  Not sure if there was a difference or if it's just the subject matter.

[Hope44]

We have a reserved spot with RWT for this coming year for chemistry, but something is not feeling right about it now, and I don't know what it is.  

I watched his sample video of his lecture and it's really that...a lecture while the students look at screen shots of webpages.  I emailed the teacher and asked if the students are supposed to read the text on the screen or what.  

Example:  He shows a wiki page on Newton and talks about Newton.  There was a lot of text on my computer screen to look at while he talked...if he just wanted to show a picture of Newton, he could have chosen something more appropriate for that.

Anyway, his email response was a tad demeaning...it was basically, "I'll do what I think is best. Mind your own business."

That didn't really turn me off since, let's face it, he is the expert and I am not, but the thought of spending an hour looking at wiki pages for science and knowing that my teacher is demanding near perfection might be a bit much for me...and my son...thereby sucking the "fun" out of science.

 

I honestly don't know what we will do as fall approaches.  Obviously RWT has quite a following or they wouldn't have full classes up through the year 2016!  

 

The only reason we looked at them was because Dr. Wile made the suggestion that we look into RWT.

 

Anyway, that may not help much, but that gives you and anyone else reading an idea of what we have seen so far.

 

We LOVE Dr. Wile's books - but we are also considering Conceptual Chemistry since it has free videos to correlate with the book lessons made by the author himself. :)

We did this course last year.  Save your money.  His emails and tone only worsens the more questions you ask.  This was the biggest mistake I ever made homeschooling.   The Apologia text is awesome.  Steve Rosenoff's class and his behavior is unbearable.  I have no idea why people continue to use him.  My experience: you can't do ANYTHING perfect enough and it is all your fault if you don't understand his 25 + page of instructions.  Don't ask questions about file attachments.  Don't assume that the samples of lab reports is really what he expects.  If you follow the example he sends, it won't be good enough.  If you question what your student is lacking, you will be dealt with in stunningly demeaning verbiage.  If you need a live class, I would try just about any of the competitors.  

[mjbucks1]

My ds used the DVDs for biology and chemistry (NOT the live classes).  Ds really enjoyed them, and I felt the optional tests were better than the Apologia tests (more essay questions).  He went on to take AP Chemistry and AP PhysicsB.  He will be taking AP Physics C this year.

 

However, I started biology with my dd this spring using the RWT DVDs and she really dislikes the videos.  She did well on the first test, but did not do well on the next two.  I am going to start again with her this fall, probably just teaching her myself.  

 

Two different kids with two different experiences!

 

 

[Running the race]

My son did the live RWT Chemistry class. He still needed me to hand-hold him a lot. Some of that was this particular child. We also use the recorded lectures. My kids don't like them that much, but they get the job done. I do like the optional tests and the blank notes to fill in during the lectures.

 

I agree that Steve Rosenoff is abrasive and sometimes defensive at times. On the other hand, I didn't find his grading unfair, and his expectations were clear.

 

My experience is that his recorded lectures are often promoted as available for only a "limited time." Don't let that rush you into a decision.

[Guest2]

My kids did not take the live class, but the videos were not helpful in Biology. They said he would go on rants and basically express his opinion frequently, but not add much to the topic, and that they were not impressed by his scientific knowledge. To be fair, my DH does have a degree in chemistry, so they have grown up hearing the thought process he uses. They were pretty harsh in their criticism, but overall the opinion was that he didn't teach good science and the videos wasted time. On the other hand, they did like the DVD from apologia (I think we bought both for Chem and Physics). If you want a live class, isn't The one through Apologia around the same price?

[Pemberley]

We did this course last year.  Save your money.  His emails and tone only worsens the more questions you ask.  This was the biggest mistake I ever made homeschooling.   The Apologia text is awesome.  Steve Rosenoff's class and his behavior is unbearable.  I have no idea why people continue to use him.  My experience: you can't do ANYTHING perfect enough and it is all your fault if you don't understand his 25 + page of instructions.  Don't ask questions about file attachments.  Don't assume that the samples of lab reports is really what he expects.  If you follow the example he sends, it won't be good enough.  If you question what your student is lacking, you will be dealt with in stunningly demeaning verbiage.  If you need a live class, I would try just about any of the competitors.  

 

Update and response to the above:

My husband sees great value in learning how to write a "proper" lab report for college.  He was never taught how to do that in high school and had to spend a fair amount of time learning it in college.  He felt that if Mr. R. could prepare our son for just that very thing through RWT, then it was worth the money.

 

*I* am the enforcer of this program at home and there is a LOT of hand-holding for my son since this is his first exposure to strict guidelines with an online class. 

 

I agree with EVERY. SINGLE. THING. you said above. 

 

I have emailed a few questions to Mr. R. and to be honest, *I* am totally afraid of the response I will get!

 

Mainly it's "If you will read the instructions you will have your answer."

or, "If you paid attention in class you would have your answer." <---so, a few times we have had to go back through hours of lectures to find the 3 seconds it took him to answer the question.  I appreciate the accountability he puts on his students, but c'mon...at some point it might be easier (for his paying students) to simply answer the question!

 

His lectures are not incredibly enlightening and I have found that sometimes videos found on the internet can be more informational and effective in explaining a concept.  

 

I think that we have benefited from the deadlines he gives (chemistry is the only class we are on track with this year in school) and from the formal lab reports, but I'm not positive that we will use his class in the future...

 

Here is one example of his most recent behavior ...

Some parents reported that while their student was taking the online test, the server crashed, or something happened and their student was unable to finish the exam by the deadline.  

He wrote a mass email to all of us and said "It's not my fault that happened (technology at its finest).  If you would have taken the test earlier in the day, you would have had time to fix the problem. Too bad for your student."

 

and then... last week...our LIVE lecture was disconnected...

 

He emailed saying that his system was down and that students needed to watch last year's lecture.  Funny how technology glitches are not his fault but he wanted understanding from his paying members for the error on his end.  I don't know that he apologized for his glitch, but it would have been nice if he had.

 

Just that one example made me think...humility in all areas of life go a long way.

:)

[klmama]

I considered them, but I could tell that his approach and ours would not be a good fit. We are trying virtualhomeschoolgroup.com's at-your-own-pace high school science lectures/lessons this year, with the online quizzes, and they are very helpful to us as a supplement for the Apologia texts. We have a local scientist help us with the labs. We still do the written tests, but there are online tests, too, if you prefer that format. They do seem a bit easier than the Apologia written tests. Did I mention that these are free? The live classes are free, too, and they are full for this year. If you are considering something for next year, though, you could enroll in the at-your-own-pace course now to check it out. I think you'd have to reenroll next year, as would your dc.

[Pemberley]

UPDATE TO MY UPDATE!

:huh:  :huh:

 

This is 100% true...and so, so frustrating. 

 

So, my son submits his first formal lab report last week from his personal email account, which he doesn't check every day.

 

On Wednesday Mr. R emails my son and tells my son that the email did not have the correct subject line and the paper could not be graded until the email was RESENT with the CORRECT subject line.   :confused1:

As my son didn't see the email ... he didn't resubmit.

 

On Saturday, Mr. R. emails my son again and says that because the paper was not resubmitted (due date was Friday), the paper could not be graded! :cursing:

 

HUH?! :crying:

 

FOR SURE we will NOT be back to use his program again. 

No way.  

A good teacher HELPS students along...he doesn't bark orders and expect perfection the first time around.

A good teacher will teach to the heart of a student.  
For a man who proclaims his devout Christianity, I would think that following his Master's way would be at the top of his priority list. 

 

*As an aside, he allows students to send in a report draft that he will review and suggest corrections or revisions.  If our subject line was incorrect on the draft, THAT would have been a perfect time for the teacher to correct it ... or at least remind my son to review the student manual or go back through hours of lecture videos to see what the correct format should have been.

 

Wow.

Just wow.

:thumbdown:

 

Edited December 5, 2015 by Pemberley

[Heather in WI]

 

So, my son submits his first formal lab report last week from his personal email account, which he doesn't check every day.

 

On Wednesday Mr. R emails my son and tells my son that the email did not have the correct subject line and the paper could not be graded until the email was RESENT with the CORRECT subject line.   :confused1:

As my son didn't see the email ... he didn't resubmit.

 

On Saturday, Mr. R. emails my son again and says that because the paper was not resubmitted (due date was Friday), the paper could not be graded! :cursing:

 

Oh my gosh! I would be livid!

[cbollin]

UPDATE TO MY UPDATE!

:huh:  :huh:

 

 

I remember in the previous update, your husband was interested in making sure your son learned how to do lab reports.  RWT uses apologia, right?  Well, in the intro section of the textbook there is a link to "book extras" on apologia site.  You'll find a free how to and sample lab report.  (It's been a year since I've looked. I'm guessing it's still there)

 

Also, do a search for "how to write lab report" and pick a high school teacher who has something... here.... I"ll go random and this looks good.  has simple template and a sample.

 

http://www-lhs.beth.k12.pa.us/departments/science/Science%20Department%20Lab%20Report%20Format.pdf

 

or if you search on "how to write a lab report in high school" and see a link to a document from seabreezehigh...  try that.  I don't think this will link... but it pops up quickly from google search....

seabreezehigh.org/academics-tab/.../LabReportRubric&HowTo.doc

 

 

hope that is somehow helpful to you. 

[Hope44]

Update and response to the above:

My husband sees great value in learning how to write a "proper" lab report for college.  He was never taught how to do that in high school and had to spend a fair amount of time learning it in college.  He felt that if Mr. R. could prepare our son for just that very thing through RWT, then it was worth the money.

 

*I* am the enforcer of this program at home and there is a LOT of hand-holding for my son since this is his first exposure to strict guidelines with an online class. 

 

I agree with EVERY. SINGLE. THING. you said above. 

 

I have emailed a few questions to Mr. R. and to be honest, *I* am totally afraid of the response I will get!

 

Mainly it's "If you will read the instructions you will have your answer."

or, "If you paid attention in class you would have your answer." <---so, a few times we have had to go back through hours of lectures to find the 3 seconds it took him to answer the question.  I appreciate the accountability he puts on his students, but c'mon...at some point it might be easier (for his paying students) to simply answer the question!

 

His lectures are not incredibly enlightening and I have found that sometimes videos found on the internet can be more informational and effective in explaining a concept.  

 

I think that we have benefited from the deadlines he gives (chemistry is the only class we are on track with this year in school) and from the formal lab reports, but I'm not positive that we will use his class in the future...

 

Here is one example of his most recent behavior ...

Some parents reported that while their student was taking the online test, the server crashed, or something happened and their student was unable to finish the exam by the deadline.  

He wrote a mass email to all of us and said "It's not my fault that happened (technology at its finest).  If you would have taken the test earlier in the day, you would have had time to fix the problem. Too bad for your student."

 

and then... last week...our LIVE lecture was disconnected...

 

He emailed saying that his system was down and that students needed to watch last year's lecture.  Funny how technology glitches are not his fault but he wanted understanding from his paying members for the error on his end.  I don't know that he apologized for his glitch, but it would have been nice if he had.

 

Just that one example made me think...humility in all areas of life go a long way.

:)

I'm so sorry that you had this happen as well!  Apparently, this mentality is not new for Mr. Rosenoff.  I find it fascinating that there are some reviewers who consider his lectures interesting.  I can tell you there are other live online classes or even on demand classes that we consider far more engaging.  You will never find out the details of what it is your son is not fulfilling on these reports and what boggles my mind most is that there is almost never any time left at the end of the class for questions from the students. 

 

My son is with one of the best online schools in the country now and he is grade point average is above a 4.0.  He has no problem understanding content. Stuff just comes easy to this kid in the academic sense.  He was doing labs with a college professor (Chemistry) and the professor thought his lab report was awesome.  

 

The power of social media and forums is awesome and whenever I get questions from other parents about high school science, I tell them to avoid RWT.  Oh and yes, about the technical malfunctions.  There is no grace if it happens to you, but if he encounters it, of course you are expected to just find a way to participate anyway.  F

 

For the life of me, I can't understand why Dr. Wile ever recommends RWT.  The only thing I can think of is that RWT uses Dr. Wile's material from before the sale of Apologia.  

[firsttimehomeschooler]

My daughter likes Mr. R's lectures. They can be a little long, but he does seem to "know his stuff" by making the lectures informative. The screenshots are only there to supplement his lecture. He goes from slide to slide/web page to web page to supplement whatever he is talking about at the time. The wiki pages are not meant to be read, sometimes if he is talking about an element (Chemistry), he will show a picture of the element's Wiki page so the students can see the element's chemical formula/picture while he discusses it. If he is talking about a certain figure in the textbook, it will be on one of the slides/tabs for students to see while he discusses it. He also goes through the fill-in-the-blank notes throughout the class. If there are calculation problems, he will upload the problem onto the screen and ask the class to solve it, then he will scroll down and go through the solution and explain it to the class.

 

My daughter also took one of the recorded classes a while ago. I believe the "limited time" length was one school year (August - May), if I am not mistaken. 

 

He can be a little abrasive at times, but if I am not mistaken, he and his wife are a two-person team handling over a thousand students, so I understand. Everything is pretty specific in his class--make sure that your formatting in formal reports is correct, title your subject lines correctly, if you have any questions about due dates, look at the Student Notebook, and there is a pretty specific question/answer lingo (? for question, y for yes, n for no, ! for answering a question, m for me, etc.,) in the chat, but this is really all to make things correct and concise. To be fair, a lot of the questions the students in my daughter's class asks is in the Student Notebook or he has previously mentioned it before.

 

Overall, this experience has actually helped my daughter to be more careful and double-check before submitting. I would say that my daughter has learned a lot from both Dr. Wile's text and Mr. Rosenoff's class. 

[MarkT]

If these are really high school classes maybe the instructor is annoyed that the parent is contacting him.  I would suggest that the student send emails for material clarification and other questions etc.

 

(I would say that this guy should understand that the parent is the purchaser of the services provided and should respect that to keep growing the business!)

[Vida Winter]

My dd took the live chemistry class with Mr. R. I agree that he can be a bit of an @ss. However, it prepared her for writing long chemistry lab reports in college and she subsequently made A's in college chemistry her freshman year, so I have to give him some credit for that. My next child will probably end up taking chemistry with Kolbe since she is enrolled there and I prefer a Catholic perspective.

[Hope44]

If these are really high school classes maybe the instructor is annoyed that the parent is contacting him.  I would suggest that the student send emails for material clarification and other questions etc.

 

(I would say that this guy should understand that the parent is the purchaser of the services provided and should respect that to keep growing the business!)

 Nope...I always have my teens do their own communications with teachers and other adults in supervisory roles.  

 

His tone was not just rude, but demeaning as well.  I give him no excuses such as "he has so many students," or "it's just a small company," or "he's also a pastor," or "he has several businesses."  If you have too many students that you can't answer a simple question with a courteous tone EVER, then you are in the wrong business.

 

I'm sorry, but I have other adult kids who have taken scores of online classes at various colleges, and NONE were to this level of unprofessional attitude.  

 

I am sincerely glad others have not had this experience, but I assure you, there are quite a number of us who have.  I DO think he knows his topic.  I do NOT think he's the best at presenting information and I think his student interaction is as low as it can get.  

[...................]

Wow gee I thought we had it bad with our exacting and annoying teacher in Apolgia Academy online. Maybe we will stay with them and just choose a different teacher.

 

If nothing else, the communication has been respectful and the demands, while very high for the age range and more specific, were clear but not capricious.

 

The lectures are boring, the standards high for the age range, it's taught like a college class with the syllabus and it's certainly not fun but anyway it sounds better than RWT so maybe you can check out Apologia Academy.

[FloridaLisa]

I have no experience with RWT, but I've found these kinds of classes actually helpful for the very reason you are frustrated Pemberly. Because of the nature of our homeschooling, my kids have little experience with hard deadlines that carry consequences.  So it can be a hard reality -- but reality nonetheless -- when they take outside classes and begin to have to work under the deadlines.  I want my kids to experience these when it doesn't cost quite as much, though a couple of my dc have learned about deadlines and following a syllabus when it really counted in dual enrollment.  It stinks, but it *can* be a good lesson.  Learning how to work with different teachers (or bosses or coaches) is helpful as our dc transition from school at home to school in university setting. 

 

Lisa

[Hope44]

I have no experience with RWT, but I've found these kinds of classes actually helpful for the very reason you are frustrated Pemberly. Because of the nature of our homeschooling, my kids have little experience with hard deadlines that carry consequences.  So it can be a hard reality -- but reality nonetheless -- when they take outside classes and begin to have to work under the deadlines.  I want my kids to experience these when it doesn't cost quite as much, though a couple of my dc have learned about deadlines and following a syllabus when it really counted in dual enrollment.  It stinks, but it *can* be a good lesson.  Learning how to work with different teachers (or bosses or coaches) is helpful as our dc transition from school at home to school in university setting. 

 

Lisa

I agree.  These types of classes CAN be very helpful.  We've utilized both live feed and on demand classrooms from high schools and colleges.

 

However, it isn't the accountability to someone other than mom that is the problem with my experience with RWT live classes - it is the customer service - and I DO believe not only is the parent the customer, but the student also.  In my experience, there are other educational companies providing live online classes or on demand classes with a superior product.  

[Pemberley]

 

 

The power of social media and forums is awesome and whenever I get questions from other parents about high school science, I tell them to avoid RWT.  Oh and yes, about the technical malfunctions.  There is no grace if it happens to you, but if he encounters it, of course you are expected to just find a way to participate anyway.  F

 

For the life of me, I can't understand why Dr. Wile ever recommends RWT.  The only thing I can think of is that RWT uses Dr. Wile's material from before the sale of Apologia.  

 

Which social forums do you see discussion of his product?

He seems to follow one and talked about it, but I don't know where it is.

:confused1: 

 

Also, he and Dr. Wile have parted ways! 

Dr. Wile still says that Mr. R is a "master teacher," but that's as far as he goes. They had a very heated email exchange and that led to a separation. 

:hurray:

[Hope44]

Which social forums do you see discussion of his product?

He seems to follow one and talked about it, but I don't know where it is.

:confused1: 

 

Also, he and Dr. Wile have parted ways! 

Dr. Wile still says that Mr. R is a "master teacher," but that's as far as he goes. They had a very heated email exchange and that led to a separation. 

:hurray:

 I don't want to sort of give away my identities on the other sites because of the trolling tactics on them by certain um online teachers who then completely slam any unfavorable reviewers on their Facebook page etc...  But you can google homeschool review sites or method sites and RWT and sometimes they come up.  

 

As to the email exchange, this is the first I've heard of it.  Dr. Wile is always a pretty genuine and gracious man.  Can you enlighten?