I talk to the trees Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Now that we have the realtor thing straightened out (see yesterday's thread,) we are headed out to look at a small farm tomorrow. Dh and I have always wanted to do this, and now we might just have the chance. I'm not talking about full-time farming, just chickens, and maybe a few sheep and goats. And produce, of course. We are also contemplating starting an orchard or vineyard. Those of you with experience in this area, what should we look for? I know what to look for in a house- foundation, roof, plumbing, structural stability, no pests, etc..., but what about the land itself? Outbuildings? Anything else we should know or look out for? How much land is too much to keep up? It's 26 acres, but about a quarter of that is wooded. I'm not letting myself get too excited just yet. It may be a bit of a disaster. But we won't know until we look! Feel free to advise us to rethink this farm thing. We really may not be fully aware of just what we would be getting into! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Water and septic inspections are a must. Years ago DH tried to power-wash the roof of a church building in an area that is not very developed. And he ran the well dry after only 30 minutes! Not long of that, the church got a notice that the water in that area is not drinkable, and there have been ongoing septic issues. It was a big farming area 40 years ago, but most have given up now because of the water issues. If you plan for an orchard, vineyard, or garden, the soil is very important. I'm not sure who you'd call to look at that. How you site those features is critical as well. You need both good drainage and sun. We used to belong to a CSA that owned about 100 acres, but only about 1/4 of it was good for farming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Contact the County Extension Service and Soil and Water District for the area you are considering and talk to them about the viability of the land for what you want. You definitely need a good water supply, good drainage (when you have a rainy season), good soil, enough flat/tillable ground for your produce garden, adequate pasture for your animals, etc. The amount of land you would need for half a dozen sheep or whatever will vary greatly depending on the richness of the soil and the prevalence of natural vegetation. In some areas, that might require several acres, in others less than 1. Regarding the house, check all the regular stuff you would check in an urban home. If the house is older, especially check for termite damage, dry rot, electrical and plumbing problems, roofing issues, and leaky basements. Keep in mind that old fashioned windows are very drafty and often hard to open after the house has settled for several years. And they are crazy expensive to replace. Check the sewage system - how well do the drains work? Are there any unusual odors? Is there any wetness or odor outside where they tell you the septic tank and leach field are located? If the house is on a well, make sure the well is tested for potabilty - make that a condition of your offer. If possible, also try to find out whether it has ever gone dry. What kind of heat does the house have? Most older farm houses are pretty drafty and can be expensive to heat with fuel oil or propane. In most places, electric heat will bankrupt you in short order. Fireplaces are beautiful to look at but only rarely can heat a whole house. Woodstoves or fireplace inserts do a better job of this. If you plan to burn wood in any of these, have the chimney inspected by someone who knows what they are doing. (Again, make this a condition of the offer, since a bad chimney is a real headache to repair and usually expensive) Think about how you will be moving around the property. Is it easy to get from the house to the barn and back again? If you get animals, you will be making the trip at least twice a day, often more. Can you easily get vehicles back to the barn so that you can unload hay and grain directly and not have to transport it from a distant driveway? How are the fences? Sheep need fairly decent ones and you would be shocked to learn how expensive fencing can be. (We could use about $23,000 of it right now, but just can't swing the cost...) Are there any wetlands or sensitive or protected areas that might have some legal restrictions on how you may use them? Unless you are in complete agreement with these restrictions, this could be a problem if you and the govt ever disagree with how the land should be used. What are the neighbors like? Large commercial farming operations often have noise, dust and odor problems that make them pretty bad neighbors, not to mention how their runoff can contaminate your water sources. Would their GMO crops contaminate your organic ones? Are they farmed by renters and basically abandoned as homesites? This can often attract partiers and druggies looking for a place to flop and become a problem for you as they decide to steal your stuff to feed their habits or to take pot shots at your stock for their entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Check the lands microclimate. We r in a valley near a river. Our flowers bloom a week later than in town 5 min away and our property is really gravelly-almost impossible to get trees to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in OH Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 You ask " how much land is too much to keep up?" The answer will depend on your definition of "keep up." When we mowed 5 acres, we planned on abour 1 hr. per day on a rotational basis for most of the summer. We had a zero radius golf course mower, so we mowed fast. If you are mowing around trees/saplings, landscaping, etc. it will take longer. If you just want to let the grass get long and rough mow, you'll need some sort of tractor and pull behind mower. That type of mowing works best for open space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 We mow about 3 acres with orchards etc. It takes a total of about 4 hours just to mow. That doesn't count field work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I talk to the trees Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 You guys have given us a lot to think about. Thank you all! I'm making a list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 ZONING ZONING ZONING-----check and double check with the township or zoning authority for that area on the exact zoning for THAT piece of property---which might well be different from the piece next door or across the road. Check the taxes on it.....what they would be for YOU, not what they are for the current owner. If the property has been in the same hands for decades the property taxes are likely WAY lower for them than they will be for you at the "current" tax rates, etc. with no caps, etc. Find out if any of it is protected wetlands---you own it, you just can't do anything with it. Find out zoning for the areas around you----can they put in an industrial park next door? See what the neighbors are doing with their properties and if you are OK with that..............in our area many people were complaining about the noise of tractors early morning/late evening, smell of manure spreaders, slow moving tractors on the roads, etc...............well, if you move to the country that is what it is like. Check to see if there are any upcoming or in the thinking stages plans for road/highway improvements. We are in the midst of that in our rural township now. 36 square miles of rural living that just got our first traffic light last week and they are putting in a 4 lane expressway just 1/4 mile behind my house (and through my previous house). Some poor folks bought right along that line and now are looking at an expressway instead of the nice wooded area they did have. Water and sewer are important as well as heating sources---will you have natural gas or not? We love rural living but remember, you can only decide what happens on YOUR property, you can't control the neighbors cutting down their trees, putting in a pig farm, etc. if zoning allows it., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 We love rural living but remember, you can only decide what happens on YOUR property, you can't control the neighbors cutting down their trees, putting in a pig farm, etc. if zoning allows it., Yes, I was thinking about this today in relation to this thread. We carefully checked the zoning and long-range plans for the area on our property, and are very, very unlikely to have any problems down the road with zoning in the next few decades at least. Several other issues... A friend of mine bought rural property. They came from an urban area in Florida, and thought they were getting a super deal on ten acres with a nice house less than 5 years old and outbuildings that was buffered but relatively close to commuting roads. When they moved in they realized that the farmer across from them was raising emus and llamas, which can be extremely loud animals at certain times of the year. They realized that the house's electrical system was not loaded for any additional circuits than they had, so they couldn't add any more outlets or appliances without upgrading the whole electrical panel and such. Some rooms had only one outlet, and the kitchen only had two (thankfully the stove was a propane one). A neighbor told them that the house had been built by a carpenter in his spare time with friends of his doing the electrical and plumbing, so the basic structure was great, but some of the details were lacking. When their kids were little, they had only dial-up Internet because that was all that was available, and that was all they needed. Then as the kids grew up and took dual enrollment, they got satellite (no DSL or cable) so they could access their college assignments. But when the weather was bad, they had to drive into town and go to Panera or park outside of there in the wee hours to finish their work. Sometimes the dad wanted to work at home, and he sometimes gave up and had to go to work when there were storms. So Internet in a rural area can be an adventure too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Everyone else has given you good advice, so I'm going to add something completely different -- about AFTER you get some land. Don't try to start everything at once. We made this huge mistake and ran ourselves ragged. Don't try and start a garden, chickens, pigs, sheep, goats, and hey how about a beef steer, and that calf is pretty and let's buy her to milk her, and the kids always wanted a pony, and ... I recommend no more than 1-2 types of animal added per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I love our semi rural life. We have lots of farms around us but we only have 5 acres and do have neighbors close. We had to move because the highway bypass project took out our last house and horse farm. Acreage was very very hard to come by in our area as there were lots of homes for sale on 2 or less acres but very little on 5+ acres we needed for our horses, chickens, etc. (to maintain what we had at the last place). We found this place and for the most part love it here. We did have trouble with one neighbor who is STILL not happy that we cut down 2 1/2 acres of woods to put in our barn and horse pastures. HE was counting on OUR woods for his privacy----he has 5 acres but build his house near the side back lot line and cut down most of his trees right to the lot line. To be nice we left up a 30-40 foot buffer around all of the sides of our property but it still cut into his privacy We were (and are) totally within all legal rules for the township on this property, etc. but he ended up putting up a long privacy fence which is fine with us. We are quite quiet and our animals are quiet and we keep the manure all picked up, etc. All of that to say, don't cut down all of your trees up to the wooded lot line and then be upset if the neighbor next door does the same thing.............I tell everyone to imagine if their neighbors clear cut everything, put a house as close to the lot line as possible, etc. and THEN plan what you want to do with your property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Everyone else has given you good advice, so I'm going to add something completely different -- about AFTER you get some land. Don't try to start everything at once. We made this huge mistake and ran ourselves ragged. Don't try and start a garden, chickens, pigs, sheep, goats, and hey how about a beef steer, and that calf is pretty and let's buy her to milk her, and the kids always wanted a pony, and ... I recommend no more than 1-2 types of animal added per year. yes. Double yes if you have kids under 5. Plant your orchard because it takes years to establish it. Buy some (10 max) chickens and plant a tiny little garden. Try that for 2 years and see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Expect it to be more expensive and harder work than you think it will be. Expect everything to take longer than you expect or the book says. We hay about 6 acres, but we split the profit with someone who has the equipment and then we spray the field (or trade with the farmer who we lease another 3 acres too in exchange for his rent a year). It's hardly any money, but we figure someone else is mowing it, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I talk to the trees Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Well, we are back from the viewing, and it was quite the adventure! Not exactly what the listing agent made it seem. Ever since dh mentioned this property, I have had the "Green Acres" theme going through my head. Let's just say my mental soundtrack hit the nail on the head! :lol: From the bits of floor missing to the tub that was coming away from the wall, it was a mess! And then there is the issue of the current tenants (several bird nests, and who knows what else in the attic!) When we walked out of the house, the realtor said, "You could get the land, and bulldoze the house." It was that bad. I guess it's back to realtor.com for us! I am keeping all of your advice in mind, though. We are still looking, and hopefully something appropriate- or at least livable- will turn up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 If the land is great and you could can get a good price on it you might find it worth it to build on the property. Hard to find acreage with an up to date home......at least in our area. Sorry this one didn't work out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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