Math Major - How to Pick a School

[Shelly in VA]

Ds (junior) wants to major in math. The initial reaction dh and I had was, "What does one do with a math major? Why not just get an engineering degree, or a finance degree, or some such thing?"  :huh: But we've talked with enough people that we're past that hurdle; haha.

 

Now our issue is narrowing a list of schools. We are on the east coast in VA, which has strong universities, but just about everyone has a math program, and most schools will actually award some sort of math degree. We've met with math professors at two schools, who have told us about the strength of their programs, but that hasn't really helped us clarify what to look for. We've even tried googling for information, but we really aren't finding good guidelines on questions to ask or things to look for. It was much easier to assess programs with dd19, who wants to go into nursing!

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!

[Gwen in VA]

Random thoughts --

 

1) Look around on the math department websites. Some math departments are BORING, and some seem to have a joy in math that is contagious -- internship opportunities, opportunities to specialize in subfields, special info for those heading to grad school, etc.

 

2) Call up the department and ask what the graduates typically do -- do they head into finance or actuarial work or grad school or teaching or .....? What grad schools have recent graduates gotten into?

 

3) And are there any students who do well on the Putnam exam?

 

4) Look at the classes. What is offered? Is it applied or theoretical?

 

5) This is a bit more general to the school and not the department, but have any recent grads been awarded fellowships like the Goldwater?

 

6) Are there internship opportunities? Are there research opportunities? (Make sure they are math-specific -- having lots of chemical engineering opportunities won't help a math major!)

 

I have wrestled with the question of how do you tell a strong department from a weak department, and after going through the college admissions process four times my conclusion is that if you research and ask questions, you will learn to recognize departments where enthusiasm and support abound and grads are equipped. My #1 step is to spend time poking around on the departmental website.

[Luckymama]

Very interested in this topic...

[Kathy in Richmond]

Random thoughts --

 

1) Look around on the math department websites. Some math departments are BORING, and some seem to have a joy in math that is contagious -- internship opportunities, opportunities to specialize in subfields, special info for those heading to grad school, etc.

 

2) Call up the department and ask what the graduates typically do -- do they head into finance or actuarial work or grad school or teaching or .....? What grad schools have recent graduates gotten into?

 

3) And are there any students who do well on the Putnam exam?

 

4) Look at the classes. What is offered? Is it applied or theoretical?

 

5) This is a bit more general to the school and not the department, but have any recent grads been awarded fellowships like the Goldwater?

 

6) Are there internship opportunities? Are there research opportunities? (Make sure they are math-specific -- having lots of chemical engineering opportunities won't help a math major!)

 

I have wrestled with the question of how do you tell a strong department from a weak department, and after going through the college admissions process four times my conclusion is that if you research and ask questions, you will learn to recognize departments where enthusiasm and support abound and grads are equipped. My #1 step is to spend time poking around on the departmental website.

 

Excellent list!

 

In addition, I'd definitely have him sit in on at least two math classes. Pick one subject that he'd take in his first year and another upper level math class. Check the quality of interaction between the prof and the students, how engaged they are in class, whether he/she lectures at the board or asks questions in a Socratic manner.

 

Then invite one or two of the upper level math majors to lunch, or arrange it in advance through the math department. You'll learn a lot by just asking current majors how they made their own college decisions, are they happy they picked College X, what is the workload like in the math department, what extracurriculars or clubs are offered within the math department, what do they & their classmates plan to do after grad, can they tell you about any math grad success stories, ...

 

Are there honors sections offered in the math classes, especially for the first two years when the classes contain non-math majors? Do they use different texts written for kids who are interested in proof-based math, such as Spivak or Apostol? Do math majors work on proofs from the start or just go through the basic stuff faster?

 

I'd go to the textbook section of the bookstore & have him look through the math section.

 

For smaller schools, it's important to not only look at the course catalog, but also at the class schedule for the current term. Sometimes there are lots of courses listed that are rarely offered.

 

For math research opportunities, ask specifically how many of their students participate in summer REUs (research experiences for undergraduates). These are scattered around the country each summer  & bring together small groups of motivated math students from different colleges to do research under the guidance of a mentor professor who enjoys that sort of work. So even a smaller school might send a kid or two each year.

 

[dbmamaz]

Hubby has 2 degrees in math and 2 in actuarial science and he says there are tons of opportunities - but you should think about what you want to specialize in.  theoretical math, more statistics oriented, etc?  He definitely thinks smaller class size is better.  He went to 4 different colleges (in Canada) and found class size to be the most important - and verify that classes are taught by professors, not grad students.  

 

 He says that a lot of companies dont care about your specialization, but understand that math majors are highly capable in a lot of things other people really cant do.  

 

Wave . . . from Richmond's far-west-end

As others have said, there's a big difference between the various sub-disciplines of applied math and the various sub-disciplines of more theoretical math.  At some point, he'll need to pick a path.  If he is more interested in applied math, it would be useful to consider a double-major in the applied field, whatever that may be.  So, math + econ or math + business, or math + biology or ...  And if he has interested is those applied field, perhaps that can help narrow down college choices to one with good departments in those areas, or colleges that encourage that kind of double major.

 

As always, I'd look to see at each college where their math majors go after graduation -- if they all go into education, and he wants to be a teacher, great! If they all go into pure math research, and he thinks he may be more interested in applied math, that might be more of a red flag.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

I'd go to the textbook section of the bookstore & have him look through the math section.

 

This is a great research asset but don't be surprised if they won't let you.  

 

It's rapidly becoming a pet peeve of mine - the textbook section is roped off and you have to hand the staff your course list and they go get your books!  I've been in 4 or 5 college bookstores that do this lately.  Highly irritating!

This is a great research asset but don't be surprised if they won't let you.  

 

It's rapidly becoming a pet peeve of mine - the textbook section is roped off and you have to hand the staff your course list and they go get your books!  I've been in 4 or 5 college bookstores that do this lately.  Highly irritating!

 

 

Many (most?) schools have their textbooks lists online, in one form or another.

[Shelly in VA]

 Wave . . . from Richmond's far-west-end

 

You're so close to us! Waving back from just east of Charlottesville.

[MorningGlory]

Thank you so much for posting this question, Shelly.

I am quite interested, too!

[Gwen in VA]

Okay, so the overlap of math nuts and Virginians on this board is pretty high! :hurray:  (Waving hi from Williamsburg!)

[Butler]

One big factor in choosing a university is the level of math your son will have completed before entering the university. If he is really advanced then I strongly recommend you consider only schools with graduate programs in math. He will need the availability of the higher level courses.

 

Class sizes in math shouldnt be an issue depending on the level of your son. Once you're past the basic level (Calc III/differential equations type of courses) then math classes tend to be smallish even at very large universities. And graduate classes tend to be even smaller. If your son is entering at the Calc level than size might matter, otherwise it shouldn't be an issue.

[kiana]

In addition to what Butler said, if your student really likes a school and they don't have a grad program, I'd ask them what they would do with a student who ran out of math classes to take. At my undergrad, I chose to do a semester in the Budapest Semesters in Mathematics when I ran out of courses, but had I not done so, they would have had me taking a full slate of independent study courses with various professors. BSM was a SUPER program btw, I highly recommend it to anyone who's interested in theoretical math and can afford it. Well, I couldn't really afford it, but I did it anyway.

 

I'm teaching at a smaller 4-year school without a graduate program, and if we had a student who came in with enough calculus credit that they ran out of courses to take, we would encourage them to take independent study courses. As a matter of fact, I'd love to see such a student because it'd probably be the only chance I ever got to teach a course that's actually in my field. The independent study courses may have an advantage in that a single bright student with a professor can often cover more than a class can, and can be focused around a student's interests (for example, when I had only two students in a class who were both double majors, I focused the applications section of the course heavily around applications to their major).

[Shelly in VA]

Okay, so the overlap of math nuts and Virginians on this board is pretty high! :hurray:  (Waving hi from Williamsburg!)

 

I'll be in Williamsburg this week with ds touring William & Mary. I'll mentally wave while I'm there! :seeya:

[Shelly in VA]

One big factor in choosing a university is the level of math your son will have completed before entering the university. If he is really advanced then I strongly recommend you consider only schools with graduate programs in math. He will need the availability of the higher level courses.

 

 

I'm teaching at a smaller 4-year school without a graduate program, and if we had a student who came in with enough calculus credit that they ran out of courses to take, we would encourage them to take independent study courses. As a matter of fact, I'd love to see such a student because it'd probably be the only chance I ever got to teach a course that's actually in my field. The independent study courses may have an advantage in that a single bright student with a professor can often cover more than a class can, and can be focused around a student's interests (for example, when I had only two students in a class who were both double majors, I focused the applications section of the course heavily around applications to their major).

 

Good points that I had not considered. On the topic of where ds starts his college level work, I don't know what to do. He is currently about halfway through AoPS Calculus. I thought about having him dual enroll in some calc classes to get the college credit starting this fall (his senior year; this summer he is taking College Composition I dual enrolled, and one class is enough with other things he has going on), but I'm not sure what the best plan is. Should I just let him continue with AoPS on his own and dual enroll in something like statistics now, then let him take the regular calc sequence in college where those classes will be slightly easier while he's transitioning to overall college academics? Or would it be best to let him take at least Calc I and II to get them out of the way? 

 

So. Many. Decisions. Aaacckk!  :001_smile:

[kiana]

If he's passing AOPS Calculus, I don't see a point to dual enrolling unless they have a 'calculus with theory' for math majors course. I'd rather continue with AOPS, and if credit is desired, take the AP or possibly an in-house placement exam. Many schools will do credit by examination for calculus 1 + 2 if the AP test is not feasible.

 

When he gets to college, he should talk to the department about whether he should retake all or part of the calculus sequence.