All my grandchildren now have a nationality!

[Laura Corin]

Yes, my unborn grandchildren.  

 

Because Hobbes was born outside the UK/US, he had to establish residence of a few years in one of those countries in order to pass on his citizenship to his children.  Other options would have been to have children with a native-born UK/US person (or one who had established residence) or to make sure that his children were born in one of his passport countries.

 

But now we have lived in the UK for long enough that the grandchildren's UK nationality is secure.  Hobbes currently still can't necessarily pass on his US nationality.  I also don't know if his children will inherit his right to reside in Hong Kong, where he was born.

 

For those who are curious, the relevant passages are here (Hobbes is British by descent) and here (for the US).

 

L

[JenneinCA]

That is neat. Does Calvin have the same issues?

[Jean in Newcastle]

My brother hadn't lived long enough in the US to pass on his citizenship when he and his wife had their children.  And his Japanese wife couldn't pass on her citizenship because at the time (it has changed more recently) a woman could not pass on her citizenship there.  So for many years their kids were without official citizenship.  My brother had to repeatedly petition his congressman back in the US to get them to give a US citizenship to his kids (something about adding it to a bill?  not sure on how exactly it was done).  Anyway, it was a long PITA process.  

[Laura Corin]

That is neat. Does Calvin have the same issues?

 

He was born in London, so he can't necessarily pass on his US citizenship, but his children would automatically be British (being the children of someone British who was born in the UK).

 

L

[Laura Corin]

My brother hadn't lived long enough in the US to pass on his citizenship when he and his wife had their children.  And his Japanese wife couldn't pass on her citizenship because at the time (it has changed more recently) a woman could not pass on her citizenship there.  So for many years their kids were without official citizenship.  My brother had to repeatedly petition his congressman back in the US to get them to give a US citizenship to his kids (something about adding it to a bill?  not sure on how exactly it was done).  Anyway, it was a long PITA process.  

 

I'm glad they sorted it out in the end.  

 

The issue was a little niggle at the back of my mind until it resolved itself for Hobbes.  I didn't mention it to him before it was sorted out - I would have done so before he went off to university.

 

L

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm glad they sorted it out in the end.  

 

The issue was a little niggle at the back of my mind until it resolved itself for Hobbes.  I didn't mention it to him before it was sorted out - I would have done so before he went off to university.

 

L

Yeah.  It wasn't an issue for me or any of my other siblings because we lived in the US for long enough before we had kids.  But my brother married a Japanese wife, lived in Japan and had his kids there not too long after graduating from high school in Japan.  So he didn't meet any of the residence requirements.  But honestly, none of us knew that it was even an issue until he decided to move back to the US with his family and they wouldn't issue his kids a passport.  

[Kate in Arabia]

It's a niggle in the back of my mind as well.  It will sit back there, probably, until the kids start making concrete decisions about university.  My oldest wants to go to the US for school, so it may work itself out.  In any case, once he finishes high school he will have to either get a work/student visa here or leave, so that will be another consideration.

 

 

[Laura Corin]

Yeah.  It wasn't an issue for me or any of my other siblings because we lived in the US for long enough before we had kids.  But my brother married a Japanese wife, lived in Japan and had his kids there not too long after graduating from high school in Japan.  So he didn't meet any of the residence requirements.  But honestly, none of us knew that it was even an issue until he decided to move back to the US with his family and they wouldn't issue his kids a passport.  

 

We realised that it was an issue because Husband and I had to prove US/UK residence before Hobbes could be registered.  As far as I remember, Husband provided a copy of his high school transcript, and I handed over my university degree certificate.  These procedures may well be quite recent.

 

L

[G5052]

Yes, it can get very complicated, particularly with dual citizenship.  I really had no idea!

[TheBugs]

I am confused about this issue. I am a British born UK citizen. My children were born here in the USA before I naturalized. Are they British by descent?  Now I am a dual citizen, does that affect my children's claims to Britain? And I am guessing that their children would not be British by descent unless my children moved to Britain and established residency? I've always been confused by this issue. My little sister was born in the USA to British parents. Is she automatically a dual citizen?

[Laura Corin]

I am confused about this issue. I am a British born UK citizen. My children were born here in the USA before I naturalized. Are they British by descent?  Now I am a dual citizen, does that affect my children's claims to Britain? And I am guessing that their children would not be British by descent unless my children moved to Britain and established residency? I've always been confused by this issue. My little sister was born in the USA to British parents. Is she automatically a dual citizen?

 

The dual nationality doesn't influence citizenship of the UK or US.  

 

Yes, it is my understanding that your children are British by descent.  And yes, they would have to establish residence (or marry another Brit, or arrange for the child to be born in Britain) in order for the grandchildren to take British citizenship.

 

Your sister can apply to be a British citizen, assuming that your parents have lived in the UK.  She would also be British by descent.  And she would also have to be resident in the UK for a time in order to pass on her British nationality.

 

This is what I believe....

 

ETA: oh - just so you know.  It's not enough to be British if you want to get UK low fees for university (as opposed to overseas high fees).  Your children would also have to be resident in the UK for three years (I believe) immediately before starting university, and not just for the purpose of education (so boarding school would not work) in order to 'count' as British for university fee purposes.  This was at the back of our minds when we planned when to move from Asia to Scotland.

 

L

[TheBugs]

 

 

ETA: oh - just so you know.  It's not enough to be British if you want to get UK low fees for university (as opposed to overseas high fees).  Your children would also have to be resident in the UK for three years (I believe) immediately before starting university, and not just for the purpose of education (so boarding school would not work) in order to 'count' as British for university fee purposes.  This was at the back of our minds when we planned when to move from Asia to Scotland.

 

 

 Yes, you are right, you do have to be resident in the UK for three years to get the lower fees. When I was studying in the UK, I made sure to get myself a national insurance number and establish working at least part time and living with my grandparents as my permanent address. I did this for three years, planning to go  for graduate studies in London. I was all ready to start my program, but I met my husband while I was staying with my mother in the US and so that never happened.

[Deb in NZ]

We had these worries with dd. She was born in the US, but has spent most of her life overseas, thus is unable to pass on her American citizenship to any future children. She has NZ citizenship through decent (from DH), but would have not been able to pass on that citizenship either, had we not gotten her made a naturalised citizen when I was granted my NZ citizenship. If she ever went to Australia to live (a very common occurrence here) & had a child out of wedlock, that babe would have been w/o citizenship as Australia requires one of the parents to be a citizen before granting Aussie citizenship to a babe. My boys are NZ born citizens, so will be able to pass on their NZ citizenship. They are Americans by decent (from me), but will most likely never be able to pass on that citizenship to any future children. Multicultural families & an expat life style has lots of stresses that are not commonly known.

[Laura Corin]

Just a thought - for those who might have children who could be Brits (TheBugs and others) I don't know if there is a time/age limit on claiming British citizenship.  So you might like to look into that....

 

L

[JeneralMom]

We had these worries with dd. She was born in the US, but has spent most of her life overseas, thus is unable to pass on her American citizenship to any future children. She has NZ citizenship through decent (from DH), but would have not been able to pass on that citizenship either, had we not gotten her made a naturalised citizen when I was granted my NZ citizenship. If she ever went to Australia to live (a very common occurrence here) & had a child out of wedlock, that babe would have been w/o citizenship as Australia requires one of the parents to be a citizen before granting Aussie citizenship to a babe. My boys are NZ born citizens, so will be able to pass on their NZ citizenship. They are Americans by decent (from me), but will most likely never be able to pass on that citizenship to any future children. Multicultural families & an expat life style has lots of stresses that are not commonly known.

We are permanent residents of Australia and #5 was born here. She is a triple citizen: Aus by birth with USA and Canada by decent. The kids and I have right of abode in the UK (through my mom).

I think my older 4 can pass on their USA citizenship but not their Canadian

[gardenmom5]

this is interesting.  I wonder how this affects my neice.  she moved to germany for a graduate education program and ended up staying.  she married a ukrainian who was living in germany, and had two children.  they are still in germany.

 

she wanted to bring the kids for thanksgiving - which is a big deal in dh's family. the german government would not allow them to take the kids out of school because; the parents are immigrants whose native language is not german.  they both speak fluent german (it is their common langauge) and the nanny is german speaking.  the children are being raised tri-lingual.

[Laura Corin]

this is interesting.  I wonder how this affects my neice.  she moved to germany for a graduate education program and ended up staying.  she married a ukrainian who was living in germany, and had two children.  they are still in germany.

 

Her children would be US citizens by descent (assuming she is American).  They would have to establish a period of residence in the US in order to pass on the US nationality to the grandchildren.  I don't know how how nationality works in Germany and the Ukraine.

 

It's important to know about dual nationality that one nation cannot in general 'protect' a citizen from obligations to his other nation.  For example, if my sons were drafted into the US army, they could not appeal to the UK government to protect them: the dual national has all the rights and duties of both nationalities.  So if your niece's children are German, then the fact of their dual US nationality would not automatically give them the right to disobey German laws.  I'm not clear from your description, however, whether the children have German nationality, or merely residence.  And it might be just a school rule, rather than a national law.

 

L

[Liz CA]

I am confused about this issue. I am a British born UK citizen. My children were born here in the USA before I naturalized. Are they British by descent?  Now I am a dual citizen, does that affect my children's claims to Britain? And I am guessing that their children would not be British by descent unless my children moved to Britain and established residency? I've always been confused by this issue. My little sister was born in the USA to British parents. Is she automatically a dual citizen?

 

Some countries do not grant dual citizenship. In some cases, when you become a U.S citizen, they nullify other citizenship but oddly enough children born can still have dual citizenship if they were born while one parent still was officially a citizen of another country.

Children born in the U.S. are always American as far as I know.

[Deb in NZ]

Her children would be US citizens by descent (assuming she is American).  They would have to establish a period of residence in the US in order to pass on the US nationality to the grandchildren.  I don't know how how nationality works in Germany and the Ukraine.

 

It's important to know about dual nationality that one nation cannot in general 'protect' a citizen from obligations to his other nation.  For example, if my sons were drafted into the US army, they could not appeal to the UK government to protect them: the dual national has all the rights and duties of both nationalities.  So if your niece's children are German, then the fact of their dual US nationality would not automatically give them the right to disobey German laws.  I'm not clear from your description, however, whether the children have German nationality, or merely residence.  And it might be just a school rule, rather than a national law.

 

L

 

What many people don't realise is that holding dual citizenship doesn't mean you are half one & half the other.  When my children are in the States, they are 100% American.  When they are in New Zealand, they are 100% NZer.  If we are in a 3rd country, the passport we enter that country on is the nationality we have chosen to claim in that country.  

 

As Laura said, people who hold multiple citizenships have all the rights & responsibilities of those citizenships.  We had to register ds#1 for the selective service (draft) even though he was born in NZ & lived most of his life outside of the States.