Lolly Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Dd does not know what to do. Her biology lab partner is a dud. They are doing a research project right now that counts as a large portion of their lab grade. She realizes that what they have is not sufficient. Lab partner refused to do more or do it differently. (Not enough sample size. Not enough quantitative measures.) At one point, she finally told him she was going out to get more data without him. He grudgingly decided to go with her, but basically did nothing. WHen dd says need to do X (use percentages for example/or use a larger area), he refuses to do it that way. Lab report is to be submitted as one. Presentation together. She is on spring break right now. All is due shortly after going back to school. They could totally redo within the time at school, but he will refuse. (He is failing the class anyway, why bother.) Should she just do this on her own over spring break and tell him tough @#@!!#? Should she contact teacher? If so, how to approach without sounding like a whiner? The teachers have to know some of these kids are just dragging the others down on this. Dd is not the forceful type, and standing up to him is beyond her comfort zone. It would/will be a very difficult thing to do. She has tried, but also doesn't want to just do absolutely everything herself. I hate these group projects. WHy do teachers think they are a good idea???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Should she just do this on her own over spring break and tell him tough @#@!!#? Should she contact teacher? I hate group projects too, but did like my grade. So, yes, I would do it on my own over Spring Break. Unless the teacher has a reputation, I would also complain to the teacher and ask for a new partner. (He is failing the class anyway, why bother.) Especially if he has actually said this. Just out of curiosity, what course is this? It doesn't sound like a typical "lab course" (ie. biology, chem)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 I hate group projects too, but did like my grade. So, yes, I would do it on my own over Spring Break. Unless the teacher has a reputation, I would also complain to the teacher and ask for a new partner. Especially if he has actually said this. Just out of curiosity, what course is this? It doesn't sound like a typical "lab course" (ie. biology, chem)? What if he refuses to use it? This is all supposed to be done together. Fortunately, they change lab partners after this project. She has been stuck with him half the semester, and it has hurt her grade a bit. Not everything has been completely team based though. It is Biology 117??? Basically, biology for science people. They have covered stuff I have never had (and I had an awful lot of college biology classes!!!) before. I cannot believe the level of detail they are covering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 she needs to do the project without the lab partner. If he doesn't like her work too bad. I assume she will be including some of the data they did together so, if he for some reason complains that she took over the project, his complaint would really be unfounded. I think if he is failing, such a complaint is unlikely. The problem is that at this point he has no incentive to do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Even if they are graded as one, it is usual for both to be presenters. I'd make a copy of what's been done and give him one for him to prepare his half of the presentation, which should be given first. She should let him know that she doesn't think the data is complete and she'll be doing more work before preparing her half which she will present after he gives his half. If he's okay with that, then she can go ahead. If some inkling of eureka makes it into his head, he'll realize that he needs to help with the project and stop dragging his feet. Alternatively, she can just do it all herself and present it for both of them and call it an unfortunate experience in "teamwork". Neither of these options is exactly fair, but either one should give her the chance at a good grade. With the first option, it would actually make for a more interesting presentation for him to present their initial findings with their limitations, and then for her to explain how redoing the work and broadening the study made for more accurate results. Good luck to her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 What if he refuses to use it? This is all supposed to be done together. Not sure what you mean here. Isn't she allowed to present? Can he actually stop her saying something in the presentation? If he won't sign the lab report, she can turn it in without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacharsis Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Finding good lab partners is a perpetual struggle. Ideally, the best solution is to identify those with a reputation for slacking and avoid them, if possible. However, this sort of reputation doesn't generally make itself known until after the first couple projects, and sometimes it develops that a partner who is capable from a skills perspective becomes demoralized in their work and the quality declines. Working with a lab partner that isn't pulling their weight is a good skill to develop, since they will discover similar people out in the workforce. I think the important question to answer here is why he is not interested, when his grade is equally on the line? People rarely do things for no reason (although they may do things for stupid reasons). If the reason he is not trying is because he really is failing and the project really won't make a difference, so he is coping through indifference to the quality of his work (sort of similar to some types of burn-out you see in the work world, when people "fail" from an office politics perspective despite doing work of a reasonable quality, leading to a decline in the quality of their work due to demoralization over future prospects), she could try re-framing it as, since he no longer needs to worry about the grade, why not do the project simply to improve his own skills as a scientist? Science is fair in a way that people sometimes aren't; while he may not receive that positive feedback from his instructor, if the project works quantitatively, he will be rewarded by the results themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Generally in cases like this, the stronger partner has to pull the assignment to completion if they want a good grade. I experienced it over and over as an undergraduate, graduate student, and even as a professor taking topical studies with other professors. It's a hard reality at work too. They don't necessarily assign the most competent person to do the job, and then they pull in the competent person to pull it together and burn the midnight oil. I'm on a work project like that, and it is killing me. I could have done the work in a few hours a week myself, but instead they assigned me to review someone else's work each week and fix the problems. No matter how many times I remind them of the problems, they keep happening. And the quality of the work has gone downhill. I've been told to make sure that the final product is good, period. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 She should contact the teacher and continue to work on her own. She should complete it on her own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Thanks all. This is a case of randomly assigned partners. No choice in the matter. We are going to drive back to the school in the next couple of days, weather dependent, and she will completely regather all data on her own, rework the presentation, and rewrite the report. She thinks he will be miffed that she did it because that means all his efforts were wasted time, but won't make a fuss. She does plan to have him go first during the presentation and interject whenever needed to beef up his portion. She had to do that (and make corrections when he was just flat out wrong) when they presented their topic idea earlier. She also plans to visit the teacher Monday and let her know how things went, including that she realizes something should have been said (by her) earlier about the problem. It is really too late now for the teacher to intervene. At least the teacher will know what is going on when dd basically does the presentation on her own. This has been a real learning experience for her. One of those homeschool problems you face in college. You don't know how to work well with slackers, or how to deal with it well. I guess, we do have some socialization issues after all. :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Youngest has had lab partner problems as well. Of all sorts. He discovered the hard way (after several tries) that picking a lab partner based on prettiness might not be the best strategy. : ) Definately socialization problems, and not just in labs, for both my long-term homeschoolers that my oldest, who only homeschooled for middle school, did not have. On the other hand, they have avoided some of the socialization problems caused by public school. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 This has been a real learning experience for her. One of those homeschool problems you face in college. You don't know how to work well with slackers, or how to deal with it well. I guess, we do have some socialization issues after all. :laugh: Lab partner problems have been around for eons and have really nothing to do with homeschooling. The way to eliminate it is to eliminate the group grade. The idea that one should have unfair situations in college because one will have more unfair situations later on the job is ludicrous (and lazy on the part of the professor/employer that allows it). If anything, it promotes the sloths taking advantage of their co-workers on the job, because, after all, it worked great in school! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Lab partner problems have been around for eons and have really nothing to do with homeschooling. The way to eliminate it is to eliminate the group grade. The idea that one should have unfair situations in college because one will have more unfair situations later on the job is ludicrous (and lazy on the part of the professor/employer that allows it). If anything, it promotes the sloths taking advantage of their co-workers on the job, because, after all, it worked great in school! Yeah, it was said tongue in cheek. I don't even see the purpose of having this as a partner type of activity. In high school, I think most partnered labs have more to do with cutting expenses in half. Coming up with and doing your own research project, no expense. Do it on your own. I guess it does cut down half the time the teacher has to listen to orals and grade half the reports. But, no, there is no excuse for a system that is known for having a horrid amount of unfair situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Yes, but... That assumes that there is nothing between a terrible lab partner and a good lab partner. Aren't there many in-between situations which, if well managed, are fine but if badly managed, aren't? Wouldn't experience with working in groups helps one to learn to turn these in-between situations into good situations? I can also see how it might help one to learn to size up situations, figure out if they are going to be bad, and be pro-active from the very beginning, since if you know from early on that your lab partner (or work partner) is a dud, you are more likely to be able to schedule the extra work you are going to wind up doing in such a way that it doesn't sink your other classes or projects, more likely to keep your own notes of the labs, and more likely to keep an eye on what your partner is doing. I don't like group projects, either, but I think I can see how it might be a good idea to practise working in a group before having to do it "for real" in a work situation, where people's lives might depend on the results. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Yes, but... That assumes that there is nothing between a terrible lab partner and a good lab partner. Aren't there many in-between situations which, if well managed, are fine but if badly managed, aren't? Wouldn't experience with working in groups helps one to learn to turn these in-between situations into good situations? I can also see how it might help one to learn to size up situations, figure out if they are going to be bad, and be pro-active from the very beginning, since if you know from early on that your lab partner (or work partner) is a dud, you are more likely to be able to schedule the extra work you are going to wind up doing in such a way that it doesn't sink your other classes or projects, more likely to keep your own notes of the labs, and more likely to keep an eye on what your partner is doing. I don't like group projects, either, but I think I can see how it might be a good idea to practise working in a group before having to do it "for real" in a work situation, where people's lives might depend on the results. Nan Group projects do have their place. Preferably with more than just two people in the group. And, the overall grade should not be able to be significantly altered by the project. That is dd's main objection to this assignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vida Winter Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Dd had this problem last semester. I can't recall how she handled it but agree -- it's a rotten situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 This has been a real learning experience for her. One of those homeschool problems you face in college. You don't know how to work well with slackers, or how to deal with it well. I guess, we do have some socialization issues after all. :laugh: :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I would either complain to the professor OR I would make a chart that showed work process, how long was spent on each part and who did what. You could do that in any lab report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Extra data gathered. She went back to campus and gathered more data from the sites they had used there; then gathered two more sites of data from our town. Then, she texted her lab partner and suggested that he do the same if possible from his hometown. He declined. Presentation has been reworked using all the new information. She ended up just trashing what they had done together. She still has to write the lab report. They were supposed to get together and do it Monday, but she sees no purpose in waiting. (She would just have to assign him sections of it to do and then rewrite them when he handed her cr@p.) She had rather just go ahead and get it done while she has free time. She feels so much better. What she has for her presentation is very good. She was actually crying earlier in the week when she looked at what they had done. Now, she is looking forward to giving it. The way she made it, he should be able to know exactly what to say on his portion without any trouble. This has been a really good learning experience for her. She will not wait so long to report problems to the instructor. She came close several times this semester, but backed out. She also will push to do it correctly the first time even if her partner gives her grief about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Good for her! I think my children learned more non-academic lessons in college than academic ones. : ) Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Extra data gathered. She went back to campus and gathered more data from the sites they had used there; then gathered two more sites of data from our town. Then, she texted her lab partner and suggested that he do the same if possible from his hometown. He declined. i would make sure to keep those text messages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Update! When they got back to school after spring break (Sunday), her lab partner called her and wanted to go over their presentation. The improvements she made impressed him and made him realize that what they had was more than lacking (he really thought it was okay before). Presentation was today. On groups presenting before them, the teacher made comments like, "this would have been a good place to use a pie chart...graph...picture." He leaned over and whispered to A, "We have THAT!!" The class and teacher seemed very impressed with theirs. The teacher didn't even have any questions for them. She feels like they will have a great grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Glad to hear that it all worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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