happycc Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Ok I had slowed our Singapore down to a crawl because my kids were in PS before starting Singapore and I wanted them to get mental math and using the blocks for word problems. So my 4th grader who struggles with word problems and critical thinking (great with algorithms and computations) was given Primary Math 2B workbook to work on alone while I was chasing my toddler while waiting at 4yrs old speech therapy. I got behind in correcting so I just handed her 3A when she was finished 2B. She got a lot wrong after I started correcting them both and we just went over all the problems together for 2B. Now I am thinking I should just make her go over all of the 2B book with the teacher's guide doing all the problems with manipulatives and have her do the problems in the textbook as well. Mind you while she was doing 2B she had been using Thinking Blocks and Education Unboxed as well as regular school textbook from our charter school. Apparently it still isn't enough. So here is my question...should I go through Teacher's guide for 2B step by step or skip it and just go through 3A step by step? As well as go through the Thinking Block problems and rewatching Education unboxed again. UGH! How many of you just hand the workbooks to your children without going through the entire teacher;s guide and looking at the textbook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 One cannot hand a Singapore math (or any math) workbook to a young child and expect him/her to "learn math". Perhaps there is that rare, exceptional kid but IMHO most kiddos need a teacher/tutor working alongside them so that they don't go off the rails. If you are overwhelmed with too many "extras" (I get this sense from reading your original post) then focus on one thing for math and use it well. If you can "JUST" use Singapore, placing your daughter where she fits on their placement chart, then do it. I don't know what you have going with the charter school but it sounds like there's too much happening in the math camp and she's not learning. I prefer using Math Mammoth because the worktext format is Very Easy to Use; no juggling extra books or studying of HIGs to teach a lesson (I am not a mathy Mom so HIGs are a necessity for me.). We open and do, utilizing Maria's excellent You Tube videos that correlate to lessons as needed or desired. I gave Singapore a whirl and could use it with a couple of students but I am spread thin. Juggling the extra books, which I would need to teach Singapore well, overwhelms me. Streamlined gets the job done here. One strong math program for each child with the occasional "supplement" (i.e. Hands On Equations) works well for us and is manageable for me. Kids need consistent oversight and feedback in math (daily correcting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco_Clark Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 My son is only in 1b but I can't imagine him "getting" it with just the workbook, and I consider him fairly "mathy". We do the activities in the teacher's guide (takes 10-15 minutes), do the problems together in the Textbook (another 10 minutes), and only then do I give him the workbook and walk away. Since the workbook does not include any instruction I don't really see how one could use it alone. I'll admit I don't *always* take time to check answers, but that's because he is really good at letting me know if he's not getting it, and whenever I have checked answers they are 90% correct. I *should* be checking answers every time, though. I use the "review" pages as tests and if he misses any in those (sometimes he does forget a concept) then we go back and do those pages in the extra practice book. I like abrightmom's suggestion of sticking to one program that you can use well. Maybe you need a program that is designed to be self teaching? I believe MUS can be done independently (watching the videos as instruction) or Teaching Textbooks, although they may not start until a later grade. Either way you need to figure out where she stopped understanding and start over from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 We used just the work book until 4a, when we added the text book. BUT I worked with him every blessed step of the way. I explained, demonstrated, we discussed, and then he did the work. It worked well for that kid, at that level. But when I didn't keep up with it, and he moved ahead on his own, it was a mess. Can you narrow down exactly what the problem is, then focus on that? Is it just the word problems? Can you have him redo those with guidance, then move on? No need to redo skills that he has already mastered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't think most kids could just be handed the book and learn well. They need regular corrections so you catch errors before they become ingrained. Why not see how she does on the placement test for TT3, TT4? I'd recommend a computer-based self-grading program instead if you really don't have time to teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I let my son self-teach for a few months with high school Saxon and video. It didn't work. I started the book over with him. Little ones cannot self-teach Asian maths. Period. You are not a bad mom. I wasn't a bad mom. We tried something, It didn't work. Time to move on and fix the situation. What did you learn? I don't think Asian math is for you. Take a look at the Amish Study Time math. Rainbow has it. The child can START to do their math without you in the morning, but will need an afternoon check in with you. The series was designed for teenaged teachers in a multigrade classroom. At least starting at grade 3, the children can START math without you. And there are daily or weekly lessons--I forget which--that make scheduling a breeze, but all sorts of instructions to adapt the lessons for slower and quicker learners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycc Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 How do moms do Asian Math with multiple children and toddlers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycc Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 How do moms do Asian Math with multiple children and toddlers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 How do moms do Asian Math with multiple children and toddlers? So, I don't have as many kids as you, but my kids are young (8, 7, 5, 2) and I imagine your older ones can do more independent things. I use RightStart, which is really parent involved. The way I do it is first. It is the most important part of our school day. While dd7 and I do math, ds8 does math facts practice, a few challenging word problems on his own (one grade level down so he can be basically independent), and some copywork or such. Then, dd7 does her work, right next to me, while I work with ds8. She also has CWP, facts practice, and copywork. DD5 plays with the toddler, in a different room if she gets too crazy, or sits at the table and does pattern blocks for 20 minutes. Generally, she doesn't want to sit at the table, but I require it anyways, and add time for a bad attitude. DS2 plays or sits on my lap or does bubbles. The thing is, I've decided that math is the most important part of the day to be consistent with. After that comes WWE, silent reading, and read alouds. If you skip a week of math, you don't just miss out on a week, you lose practice and have to redo what you missed. I'm planning on transitioning dd8 to Math Mammoth when he finishes the RS sequence. I don't think it is so parent directed (I hope). Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 How do moms do Asian Math with multiple children and toddlers? Use Math Mammoth and make sure the child is well placed. I do believe that Asian math doesn't work with every youngster. Some kids just struggle and "getting math done" can do wonders for the peace of the home, the endurance of the Mom, and the heart of the child. Christian Light works well for one of my kids while Asian math does not no matter the effort put forth. ETA: I do want to say that with my Christian Light math student I am using Process Skills with him to teach problem solving. He has a very tough time with anything but a very straightforward, simple to solve word problem. Process Skills is incremental and a worthwhile supplement for this child. My hope is that it will gently lead him to better thinking and problem solving in math despite not using Asian style math as his core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeeMommy Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Math Mammoth has been good for us so far, but we are just starting out. I usually do supervise whatever page she's working on, but I can give her the book and she can do it herself. I do have a friend whose son was struggling with math, and she ended up taking a break from math workbooks with him and started him on Life of Fred. She says it really helped get him back on track with math, and it was enjoyable. (I think her son is about 4th grade level too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco_Clark Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I do not have a large family, but I do have little ones. My 4 year old "babysits" the 1 year old while I do instruction with the 6 year old. Then they switch and I instruct the 4 year old while the 6 year old plays with the one year old. It looks like you have two 11 year olds on the same level and one ten year old. Would they be able to watch the little two for a half hour a day? We also still have a daily quiet time even though no one naps and I use that for instruction as well if I have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 How do moms do Asian Math with multiple children and toddlers? For one, "Asian Math" isn't for everybody. If your ten your old is struggling in 2B, I think you should evaluate whether Singapore is working, JMO. The teaching in MM is much more explicit. You may have better success there. Also, a program like CLE isn't Asian but it teaches concepts fairly well and includes mental math. You have three school age kids - sitting with each one for 20-30 minutes of math every day is completely doable. No matter what math you use, you make it a priority. Make use of naptime, make math tubs with manipulatives that the toddler only plays with at "math time" (preferably while buckled in high chair), have an older kid occupy a younger one (pay them if needed), put a movie on, work in the evening after Dad gets home, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica_in_Switzerland Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 We are in SM 2b for ds and 1a for dd. I do math during toddler's nap time- as soon as I shut the door to her room, I am pulling out the math work. This is my routine: - I write out 10 mental math problems from the back of the HIG, chosen more-or-less randomly from the columns of problems where he knows the correct mm strategy. Cuisinaire rods are available, but very rarely needed except if I need to clarify a correction later. - while he works, I set up Cuisinaire "puzzles" for my dd, as shown in an education unboxed video. She sets to work, and I check ds's 10 problems. - I then do today's lesson. Some days we use the textbook, but generally I just make up problems based on the TB and we do them on the whiteboard. We illustrate with cuisinaire rods and drawn rod diagrams. I then assign a page or two of the wb. - When dd finishes her puzzles, she sets up to play a math game with me to practice math facts. She then looks at a book or does a numbers handwriting page while she waits. - I play a game with dd and am available to check ds's work. When he finishes, I check his work over, erase wrong answers, and talk them through, then he does them again. - I do a lesson with dd from SM if I felt like the facts practice wasn't enough, but she's still pretty little, so we're going slow. This entire process probably takes 30 minutes, 45 at the most on some days. You can't hand over SM. The whole deal with mental math is that you have to learn the appropriate strategy to do it. It is not simply learning to do the traditional stacking algorithm in your head, it is entirely different, so without direct instruciton, a kid wouldn't be able to do Asian math style mental math without getting pretty frustrated. In 2b, within the first 20 pages you see probably 10 different mental math strategies which are review from 2a. If you don't know the "trick", the problems are real bears to do mentally. 345 + 98 would be a misery if you didn't know to add 100 then subtract 2. I think math mammoth is much better as a hand-it-over Asian inspired program. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycc Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Believe it or not this child struggles with ALL math curriculums but she seems to do the best with this Singapore probably with the visual stuff. We did Math Mammoth....that was a total flop for her. Her best curriculum was Right Start but since I can barely do SM with her, Right start will be harder. The only way we managed to get Right Start B done a few years back was because 4yrs old had ABA therapist five hours a day here at the house. Since he got dropped out of that program, it has been very very hard. Things move much slower with her. 10 problems of math means an hour of work with about 50% wrong. Very rarely does she get it all right. I am not sure what it is. The same goes with just about everything else: grammar, writing, spelling, history, science..... The only thing she is really really good at...is memorizing Bible verses. She has surpassed her older sisters in the Awanas books. I don;t get it. At first I thought it was a memory thing but now I can see it is obviously not. My older daughters takes weeks to memorize a verse and they are usually great at memorizing poems and such whereas my 10yrs old masters 3-4 verses a week. I don;t know how much comprehension she has but she can rattle it off. My daughter very rarely adds more information to her speech or writing. Does not elaborate. She speaks and reads with very little intonation/monotone and very soft voice with lost of muttering. I took her to a speech eval and they said she needs to see a mental health practitioner or some kind of developmentalist for learning disorder or something like that maybe. However her Star testing scores are basic level. Maybe she is on the mild spectrum or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Things move much slower with her. 10 problems of math means an hour of work with about 50% wrong. Very rarely does she get it all right. I am not sure what it is. The same goes with just about everything else: grammar, writing, spelling, history, science..... The only thing she is really really good at...is memorizing Bible verses. She has surpassed her older sisters in the Awanas books. I don;t get it. At first I thought it was a memory thing but now I can see it is obviously not. My older daughters takes weeks to memorize a verse and they are usually great at memorizing poems and such whereas my 10yrs old masters 3-4 verses a week. I don;t know how much comprehension she has but she can rattle it off. My daughter very rarely adds more information to her speech or writing. Does not elaborate. She speaks and reads with very little intonation/monotone and very soft voice with lost of muttering. I took her to a speech eval and they said she needs to see a mental health practitioner or some kind of developmentalist for learning disorder or something like that maybe. I think that is good advice. I would pursue testing in her situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica_in_Switzerland Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I think that is good advice. I would pursue testing in her situation. :iagree: There's no point in butting your head against a wall if she needs more specialized teaching techniques that you can learn after evaluation. FWIW, we also used RS B before moving to Singapore, then we dashed through SM1 very quickly as a review. I still use all of the RS manipulatives when teaching SM- abacus, place value cards, etc. Love them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSinNS Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Plug for MUS, esp for kids who are struggling, and mom's without hours to spend. My family is smaller than yours, but here is what we do. We don't do the videos. At the beginning of each "lesson" once per week, I look at the teachers manual, if necessary, then use the blocks to work through the problems with the kid until they get the concept, and can do it confidently themselves. Then I let them finish that worksheet, and do the next themselves. This can take two minutes or twenty of my time depending on the kid and the unit. Typically we don't do more than 30 minutes of math each. Maybe a bit more for the oldest. Each lesson has six worksheets, and you can do as many or as few as you need, so you can customize. I also try to set things up that only one kid is doing something new on a given day. I then quick check at the end and we fix things. With this system I get math done for three in 45 mins per day or a bit less. MUS is also out of sync from other curriculums, so you have to review a lot when you start. This is a huge advantage for my kids. And you aren't a bad mommy! It's all trial and error. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Singapore Math really requires that you sit down and teach the lessons. It is not really one of those programs where the child can work that independently. You may wish to consider a different program if she needs to be more independent. Singapore Math is not the end all be all. It is not like your child will lose out if you pick a different program. I hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycc Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Well, I have been really forcing myself to crack open the HTG and finding the time to work with her, It is good. I try to do it during the baby's nap time or we just manage with him tromping all over the place and even trying to sit on our textbooks. I have tried getting one of the olders to watch him but he really just wants my attention and anything to do with writing all over the books/paper and ripping books and papers. I have hired a college student to work with her and other kids and that is helping a little although in some ways it is more work because I need to correct the work he does with them often times it is still wrong. UGH but it is the accountability that I am looking for. Sometimes it is just someone kicking me in the patoodie and say JUST DO IT and the situation will never be perfect but JUST DO IT. This too shall pass. I just need to remember this. Plus need to remember I am a perfectionist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 You are not a bad mom. I wasn't a bad mom. We tried something, It didn't work. Time to move on and fix the situation. What did you learn? This is sort of off topic, but thank you for saying this. I need to internalize this message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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