Getting ahead of myself?

[Mrs.Mom]

Hi there! I could really use some guidance:

 

Background
My 10yo is finishing Pre-A this spring, and I plan on introducing Alg 1 next. He just began a 9th grade English course online. We do a unit-type style in social studies/science, so hard to say what level we are in there (ancients and universe this year). Then, we are studying the Old Testament in Bible, and completing our first year of Latin this year.

 

His passion, however, is film making. As in, he lives and breathes filming. Also, computer programming, game design, webpage design, etc. This is what he wakes up wanting to do each morning and how he ends his days. He hurries through schoolwork so he can get back to his projects... know what I mean?

We toured the film department at the local university and he was just awestruck. He so badly wants to hurry up, finish high school and go to college. (It's rather cute).

Now... I don't necessarily want him Doogie Howser-style, sitting in a college classroom before he can drive. I think dual enrollment will probably work for us down the road.

But here is my question........ and this is where I may be getting ahead of myself... but what do we do in 9-12th grade if he is starting these "high school" courses now?

I know there are many here who are already several years ahead of me... do you have any guidance or advice?

Thanks!

[Luckymama]

What do you do? You just keep moving ahead, wider and deeper, in the student's area(s) of interest. You may have to outsource to tutors, online classes, in-person classes at a community college or university. You may use Teaching Company's lecture series or MOOCs.

 

Math----keep moving through the usual progression into higher level calculus and beyond, add discrete math topics like AoPS's Counting and Probability and Number Theory (very important in the computer sciences--my ds has taken four courses so far at his university)

 

Computer science----endless choices beyond the math-related courses

 

Languages----progress to reading literature, add a second or third language

 

Literature---you can concentrate on a time period (18th century) or a region (Britain) or a genre (poetry, dystopian)

 

Writing---let the creative writer participate in NaNoWriMo, have the analytical writer work on literary analysis

 

Science---there's so much more than bio/chem/physics! Geology, astronomy, botany, marine sciences, environmental sciences...

[Crimson Wife]

DD (turned 11 in October) badly wanted to skip 6th-8th grade and start high school this school year. I told her that I needed to see high school level output (not just input) if she wanted high school credit for her courses. She has the cognitive ability but lacks the maturity to actually put in the effort required. So we're using mostly high school level resources but calling them "honors" middle school courses on her transcript.

 

We haven't totally decided what we will do for high school. The original plan was for a selective private B&M school, but I'm not sure we will have the budget for that. Kolbe's honors diploma program is an option if we decide to continue HSing.

[Mrs.Mom]

Oh my gosh, Luckymama - how did you make that seem so simple??? :) So... just keep going. Then when we hit 9-12th grade and we are doing high school transcripts, those will all count toward the requirements?

For math, would you recommend pausing before or after Alg 1 and doing some of the curriculums you suggested? (It makes sense how those other courses would be helpful for computer science)...

With science/social studies... with high school requirements, is that a problem to take these other courses? I guess, in the grand scheme, that is my concern. I have been researching high school transcripts and college admissions... and then I freaked myself out. ;)

Jen

[Crimson Wife]

Here's an example of what I mean by using high school resources as the input but middle school output: Last week DD read a selection from the EMC Masterpieces "Language and Literature Arts: World Language" textbook (designed for high school use). I had her do the first 5 short answer questions from the textbook (there were 8 total and the 3 I did not assign were more complex), with 1 paragraph per answer. I did not assign her the full-length literary analysis compare and contrast essay that the textbook suggested. If she had wanted high school credit for the course, I would expect her to answer all 8 of the short answer questions PLUS complete the essay.

[Mrs.Mom]

Crimson Wife, yes, we do something similar. I am really fine with our pacing and academics... but I started thinking ahead to high school and how that would work. I would hate for my son to have to, say, repeat Alg 1 as a 9th grader. He would go berzerk. Then again, he is not going into a math field so... going beyond the typical high school math is not really necessary.

I just wasn't sure how it all worked. He is moving through coursework so much faster than I realized he would. Sounds like you are in the same boat. ;)

[8filltheheart]

I would hate to pigeon-hole a 10 yr olds future career objectives.   Even many of the most determined kids change their mind as they get older.

 

FWIW, while what you are describing your ds as doing is definitely accelerated compared to the vast majority of kids, he really isn't that accelerated for accelerated kids.   Some things to keep in mind are where do you picture him going to college?   Graduating early does not give them an edge.   In many cases it is actually a huge detriment b/c by graduating early their achievements are simply on par with the avg high school graduate whereas by not graduating early, they stand out with the advanced achievements they have accomplished compared to their peers.

 

Let him do the projects.  Those are great do at home projects.   Progress through materials at a very deep level vs. stereotypical ps skim across the surface education.   Study non-traditional courses.  My kids have done things like astronomy, multiple foreign languages, philosophy, unique literature studies, cultural studies, etc.  

 

But, we are not fans of early graduation b/c we cannot see the benefits of that outweighing the benefits of being diverse and deeply educated.

[Luckymama]

Oh my gosh, Luckymama - how did you make that seem so simple??? :) So... just keep going. Then when we hit 9-12th grade and we are doing high school transcripts, those will all count toward the requirements?

Yes :) For example, dd will have either precalculus or calculus on her transcript for ninth grade (she will have algebra 1, geometry, and algebra 2, and maybe precalculus listed on the transcript as 'taken before ninth grade' without credit assigned---you can read about this in transcript threads in the high school board). She will have, at minimum, four math courses on her transcript. They just won't be the ones most kids take in high school.

 

For math, would you recommend pausing before or after Alg 1 and doing some of the curriculums you suggested? (It makes sense how those other courses would be helpful for computer science)...

Well, you can either pause after algebra 1 for the either AoPS Intro C&P or Intro Number Theory OR he could do one of those books as an elective, maybe a few days a week OR he could do his regular math for 3 days a week and the other book for 2 days a week.

 

With science/social studies... with high school requirements, is that a problem to take these other courses? I guess, in the grand scheme, that is my concern. I have been researching high school transcripts and college admissions... and then I freaked myself out. ;)

 

Jen

Does your state have specific requirements for homeschooled students? Or are you referring to what colleges want to see? Plan on four years of core subjects (math, science, English, history/social sciences) plus three or four years of the same foreign language plus electives that interest your student. He should be well-situated for college then :)

 

It's always a good idea to keep an eye on the websites of schools that might interest your student. The admissions guidelines are subject to change! A school might "strongly suggest" that their applicants have a government course in high school, for example, after years of saying that any 2 history classes and any 2 social science classes (psychology, government, economics) are sufficient.

 

I've been reading on the high school board since we started homeschooling when dd was in fifth grade. The posters are willing to answer all kinds of questions from those looking ahead!

[Mrs.Mom]

I would hate to pigeon-hole a 10 yr olds future career objectives.   Even many of the most determined kids change their mind as they get older.

 

FWIW, while what you are describing your ds as doing is definitely accelerated compared to the vast majority of kids, he really isn't that accelerated for accelerated kids.   Some things to keep in mind are where do you picture him going to college?   Graduating early does not give them an edge.   In many cases it is actually a huge detriment b/c by graduating early their achievements are simply on par with the avg high school graduate whereas by not graduating early, they stand out with the advanced achievements they have accomplished compared to their peers.

 

Let him do the projects.  Those are great do at home projects.   Progress through materials at a very deep level vs. stereotypical ps skim across the surface education.   Study non-traditional courses.  My kids have done things like astronomy, multiple foreign languages, philosophy, unique literature studies, cultural studies, etc.  

 

But, we are not fans of early graduation b/c we cannot see the benefits of that outweighing the benefits of being diverse and deeply educated.

 

Hi 8,

 

No, I certainly don't mean to pigeon-hole him...it's just that now, and for the immediate future, this is what he wants to do. This has been his developing passion since he was 5. The dedication and devotion he has to his passions are immense. But I agree - college is a long way off and who knows what he will discover or fine-tune between now and then!

 

I have really no desire to have him go to college early. That isn't what I was saying. What I'm saying is, hmm, it has dawned on me that we are ahead of schedule... how does that impact the high school requirement courses? His eyes are not set on high school - he wants to get to college so he can actually learn what he loves at a higher level and begin making a career out of it. We have not been able to find things that allow him to advance beyond his skills in these areas - most things are for high school kids and up. He is eager to get to college. That is different than ME being eager to get him into college. ;)

 

His area of giftedness is in creative and language arts. Not math. He is ahead in math because he is intelligent and can figure it out - but it is NOT his area. I am having him do my freshman English course to structure his writing a bit more, and to introduce him to an online learning environment. We are working more on formal writing in MLA and such, and getting used to a curriculum. It is supplementing what we do in English. This way, when we begin a more rigorous English program, he has these writing skills down. (He writes better than most of my students, I'm sad to say...)

 

I don't have a college in mind at all at this point. We have a long way to go! I just want to make sure I am taking the right steps now - if there are any, ya know?

[quark]

Love Luckymama's summary. I'm going to copy and paste it into my WTM wisdoms notebook! :)

 

Mrs Mom, I would suggest going beyond typical high school math as being necessary, especially if he's into programming.

 

Your son sounds like my kiddo's best buddy who is in the grand scheme of things being unschooled due to his very strong passions in programming and also filming. But his mom tries to gently sneak in little things where she can and is quite firm about not rushing him into college early despite her kiddo having learned almost all the basics of high school math at 11. I love how she does it. Basically, her son works on his projects for a good chunk of the day. Then either at meal times or down times from his projects, she sits with him for math and a little science. He writes in his leisure time and they read tons of books. They also outsource math instruction to give him a more solid base in writing proofs. That is really helping him to develop the logical thinking so crucial for a future programming career.

 

I'm not suggesting unschooling but suggesting to keep math a priority for him to be able to go further in programming. Good luck! Sounds like you have a really neat kiddo there! :)

 

 

[Mrs.Mom]

Yes :) For example, dd will have either precalculus or calculus on her transcript for ninth grade (she will have algebra 1, geometry, and algebra 2, and maybe precalculus listed on the transcript as 'taken before ninth grade' without credit assigned---you can read about this in transcript threads in the high school board). She will have, at minimum, four math courses on her transcript. They just won't be the ones most kids take in high school.

 

 

Well, you can either pause after algebra 1 for the either AoPS Intro C&P or Intro Number Theory OR he could do one of those books as an elective, maybe a few days a week OR he could do his regular math for 3 days a week and the other book for 2 days a week.

 

 

Does your state have specific requirements for homeschooled students? Or are you referring to what colleges want to see? Plan on four years of core subjects (math, science, English, history/social sciences) plus three or four years of the same foreign language plus electives that interest your student. He should be well-situated for college then :)

 

It's always a good idea to keep an eye on the websites of schools that might interest your student. The admissions guidelines are subject to change! A school might "strongly suggest" that their applicants have a government course in high school, for example, after years of saying that any 2 history classes and any 2 social science classes (psychology, government, economics) are sufficient.

 

I've been reading on the high school board since we started homeschooling when dd was in fifth grade. The posters are willing to answer all kinds of questions from those looking ahead!

Ok, this really helps me see the possibilities here. I think slowing algebra down and introducing these other math options sounds like a great idea. Thank you for the help!

 

The state thing is a bit tricky as we move every few years (we are civilian, but hubby works for the Dept of the Navy and we move just like the military). Looks like you have to meet the requirements of whatever state you reside in during the high school years. That should be interesting, but like you say .... looks like requirements are basically the same. I believe he is the Class of 2021... so who knows what changes will occur between now and then!

 

I do appreciate your help! This is literally the first day I have even given high school a thought. I see how quickly he is moving through material and I see what his objectives are, and feel like I am continually having to reassess and regroup. Which is fine - I just looked up transcripts today and overanalyzed!! :) 

 

Thanks again!

 

 

[Mrs.Mom]

Love Luckymama's summary. I'm going to copy and paste it into my WTM wisdoms notebook! :)

 

Mrs Mom, I would suggest going beyond typical high school math as being necessary, especially if he's into programming.

 

Your son sounds like my kiddo's best buddy who is in the grand scheme of things being unschooled due to his very strong passions in programming and also filming. But his mom tries to gently sneak in little things where she can and is quite firm about not rushing him into college early despite her kiddo having learned almost all the basics of high school math at 11. I love how she does it. Basically, her son works on his projects for a good chunk of the day. Then either at meal times or down times from his projects, she sits with him for math and a little science. He writes in his leisure time and they read tons of books. They also outsource math instruction to give him a more solid base in writing proofs. That is really helping him to develop the logical thinking so crucial for a future programming career.

 

I'm not suggesting unschooling but suggesting to keep math a priority for him to be able to go further in programming. Good luck! Sounds like you have a really neat kiddo there! :)

 

Thanks for the encouragement - I think you are absolutely right about the math!

 

[regentrude]

 

I have really no desire to have him go to college early. That isn't what I was saying. What I'm saying is, hmm, it has dawned on me that we are ahead of schedule... how does that impact the high school requirement courses? His eyes are not set on high school - he wants to get to college so he can actually learn what he loves at a higher level and began making a career out of it.

 

If you do not want him to graduate early (or at least very early - one year won't matter much), it does not impact his high school requirements if you do high school level courses now. You can simply have him study more things in more depth because he has extra time. Much of my DD's high school coursework has been college level, either at home or with dual enrollment. You can fulfill all high school course requirements with coursework on a higher level. So, for example instead of a standard high school physics class, she has calculus based Engineering Physics on her transcript.

Not a problem at all. There is enough to learn even for an accelerated student without rushing to early graduation. Have FUN with it.

Others have already suggested many things he could study. Having the extra time for more literature, more foreign languages, projects and creative exploits, out-of-the-box electives etc is a wonderful luxury.

 

ETA: I would make sure to challenge a gifted student, even if areas that are not his specialty. Have a look at AoPS for math.

[Mrs.Mom]

If you do not want him to graduate early (or at least very early - one year won't matter much), it does not impact his high school requirements if you do high school level courses now. You can simply have him study more things in more depth because he has extra time. Much of my DD's high school coursework has been college level, either at home or with dual enrollment. You can fulfill all high school course requirements with coursework on a higher level. So, for example instead of a standard high school physics class, she has calculus based Engineering Physics on her transcript.

Not a problem at all. There is enough to learn even for an accelerated student without rushing to early graduation.

 

<Big sigh> Thank you. You just dropped my shoulders from my ears down to a nice relaxed position.

 

I really, really appreciate all the encouragement here. You guys are fantastic!

 

My little man thinks he is about 25 already... he is so ready to go live life! I keep telling him he has plenty of time, but he is in such a rush! So I am looking for ways he can feel older and productive without really thrusting him too far forward. :)

[quark]

regentrude beat me to it! I was going to add that with an accelerated student, a mindset change will help loads.

Looks like your DS's strengths are in filming, programming and language arts ya?

My DS's passion is math and we are already looking into college level materials in one or two areas but he is all over the place in lit and writing. Reads at a very high level and although very mature for his age, he is still 11 so we carefully choose "milder" titles from high school level booklists. He reads and discusses at a high level but I don't expect more than grade level work when it actually comes to putting his thoughts down in writing. Anything extra he is willing to give is a bonus! For your DS it might look like college level writing at middle school age (just as an example). So basically, the usual grade levels don't apply across the board anymore. You start to get used to the asynchronous levels after a while.

 

I also wanted to suggest borrowing liberally from alternative learning ideas like High Tech High's projects (there might be better ones out there and there are some ideas in the archives or you can start another thread)...where he can integrate his love of film and writing into other areas of study like science or math. There's so much you can do!

[8filltheheart]

<Big sigh> Thank you. You just dropped my shoulders from my ears down to a nice relaxed position.

 

I really, really appreciate all the encouragement here. You guys are fantastic!

 

My little man thinks he is about 25 already... he is so ready to go live life! I keep telling him he has plenty of time, but he is in such a rush! So I am looking for ways he can feel older and productive without really thrusting him too far forward. :)

 

What Regentrude is discussing, completing college level classes as a high school student is what I meant by a high level of achievement beyond the typical high school student.    And while you say he doesn't want to major in a math related field, computer science does require quite a bit of math.   Just looking at GA Tech's BS requirements for math for a CS degree:  

MATH 1501 Calc I

MATH 1502 Calc II

MATH 2605, Calc III for CS

MATH 3012 Applied Combinatorics

MATH 3215 Probability and Statistics (MATH/ISYE/CE 3770 or ISYE 2027 + 2028 may be substituted for MATH 3215)

 

While schools like GT won't typically accept transfer credit for those classes and will only give credit for cal 1 for a 5 on the AP, having taken those classes during high school simply aids in understanding it at the level they teach it. 

 

But sticking with the GT example, the avg student accepted this round of admissions had 9+ AP or college level classes.  Competition has only been increasing and selectivity has only been getting more difficult.   Students graduating early, unless extremely competitive at a younger age, are at a disadvantage b/c advanced students not graduating early are simply that much more competitive. 

 

You can investigate MOOC classes for computer programming.   There are tons of options out there.

 

VCU is a school that I am familiar with that has a film-making degree and here is a page with their FAQ.  http://arts.vcu.edu/cinema/admissions/faqs/

Notice that they want well-rounded students with advanced courses and foreign language experiences (a strong language student can thrive in multiple language studies......I have one of those.  :) )   There are so many ways to really help our kids to be the best them they can be, encouraging their interests, tailoring their educations to their future objectives.   It is next to impossible to run out of things to do.   (OK, I will admit that I am incredibly glad that my ds is graduating this yr b/c I really don't want to have to think how I would teach him next yr, but I have loved every minute of getting him up to this pt!)

 

ETA:   You might want to look at Digipen's computer programming and game design degree's requirements as well.  https://www.digipen.edu/academics/degree-programs/bs-in-computer-science-and-game-design/degree-requirements/

FWIW, I think that Digipen has summer camps for kids.   It has been ages since I looked, but I am pretty sure that I remember reading something about them.  (summer academic camp experiences have been a huge blessing in the lives of my kids.   They love being around other kids that are as passionate about subjects as they are and enjoy being challenged to really high levels.)

[EndOfOrdinary]

My son is 9 and planned his own high school graduation plan with him graduating at 16 with both his diploma and his Associates degree from the local community college. He informed me of this intent last year and had main much the same panic mode you seem to be expressing. Basically, he wanted to cut out the "exploratory" middle school years. After blocking it out; it wasn't that crazy.

 

We are doing high school courses now, only it just goes into his 4th grade portfolio. Much like others said above, the pace is slower than a traditional high school course, and there are rabbit holes we venture down, but the depth of content is there. In three years he will begin high school transcripts and CLEP test for credit competency in subjects like Algebra 1, Spanish 1 & 2, and the like which he has no desire to retake. This allows for the courses to go on a transcript because CLEP is both federally mandated as accepted by college (with provisions for how determined by each separate institution), but also nationally recognized as viable measure of learning. This way he can be doing whatever math he is interested in, but still have a complete transcript. He will still have to do science, foreign language, English, etc, at a much higher level than now for us to award him credit, but he won't feel like he is having to double back and repeat himself.

[....]

But here is my question........ and this is where I may be getting ahead of myself... but what do we do in 9-12th grade if he is starting these "high school" courses now?

 

 

I have a similar situation.  I started a thread about my oldest daughter last fall.  I have a Bachelor's degree in biology and (I kid you not) she knows more about the field than I do.  My strategy is to work with her for about an hour each day and then just leave her the rest of the time for her independent schoolwork, research and projects.  We plan to do this until 8th grade.  At that point, we've decided to do more formal schoolwork (something where she chooses the books/sources she wants to use).  We're also going to find somewhere in the field for her to volunteer during those years - like the botanical gardens or something (she's into botany).

 

I don't really want them to graduate too early.  I don't really want to hold them back, either.  I started college at 16, moved out of the house at 17 and it wasn't a big deal.  Two more years of high school would've been like a prison sentence.  I couldn't imagine still being in high school at 18.  *gasp*!!  I don't know what to think.  I want to let each kid decide their own direction.

 

Sorry for rambling.  Good luck!!     

[8filltheheart]

. In three years he will begin high school transcripts and CLEP test for credit competency in subjects like Algebra 1, Spanish 1 & 2, and the like which he has no desire to retake. This allows for the courses to go on a transcript because CLEP is both federally mandated as accepted by college (with provisions for how determined by each separate institution), but also nationally recognized as viable measure of learning.

 

CLEP is not accepted by a large number of institutions.  The higher ranked the college, the less likely that they will recognize CLEP.  So, if a student is planning on taking CLEP exams and never retaking those courses, they are going to be limiting themselves as to what schools they are going to be able to apply to.   If they are planning on graduate school, I would definitely investigate as to whether or not CLEP will be viewed negatively. 

[regentrude]

. In three years he will begin high school transcripts and CLEP test for credit competency in subjects like Algebra 1, Spanish 1 & 2, and the like which he has no desire to retake. This allows for the courses to go on a transcript because CLEP is both federally mandated as accepted by college (with provisions for how determined by each separate institution), but also nationally recognized as viable measure of learning. This way he can be doing whatever math he is interested in, but still have a complete transcript.

 

First, the CL in CLEP means "College level". There is no "Algebra 1" CLEP because algebra 1 is not a college level course.

Second, as 8FillTheHeart already pointed out, CLEP is not universally accepted by colleges; you need to do some research.

Third, CLEP has nothing to do with transcripts. You can have a course on the transcript without a CLEP test. Nobody will doubt that a student has taken algebra 1, when the student has higher math courses; he still needs four math credits in high school. Similar for foreign languages. If you want something to demonstrate mastery that is useful for college admission, AP or SAT subject tests are preferable. But again, these do not exist for algebra 1. 

[kiana]

In addition to what regen and 8fill said, I have never run across a university that would make a student retake any course before calculus if they passed a placement test. It is expected that students will have done these in high school so placement will frequently depend on how the student did on a placement test, which varies by institution. Some institutions use the SAT/ACT score, some use a test like COMPASS or Accuplacer, and some have their own tests.

 

The only reason to CLEP a math course is if you are not going to do calculus and want to try to get credit for college algebra or precalculus. Other than that, great SAT/ACT scores will verify the level of math completed far more than any CLEP test.

 

Similarly with languages (although I am less familiar with these), I would not recommend any tests until he stops taking language. It is pretty common for schools to use SAT 2 for placement, and of course if he goes as high as AP that would be a good option. The only real reason to use CLEP is if he wants to stop taking languages very early and still get credit for having studied them at some point.

[8filltheheart]

Today's biology is focused on biochem. Students really need to be able to understand the chemistry behind the processes at the molecular level. Chemistry requires at minimum a mastery of alg 1 skills.

 

There is a world of coursework out there for students to study. Unless the objective is to graduate with the minimum course load for a standard diploma, there is no reason for a homeschooled student have high school be a prison sentence. Even if a student took chem at 13, bio at 14, physics at 15 (and there are plenty of arguments for physics prior to both), that still leaves courses like the 3 AP sciences for 16-18. A student could easily double up on sciences and do specialized independent studies in botany simultaneously those last 3 yrs and be a far more interesting college applicant than an early graduate.

 

Homeschooling allows for freedom to explore and show strengths simultaneously. No need for boredom.

[regentrude]

I don't really want them to graduate too early.  I don't really want to hold them back, either.  I started college at 16, moved out of the house at 17 and it wasn't a big deal.  Two more years of high school would've been like a prison sentence.  I couldn't imagine still being in high school at 18.  *gasp*!!  I don't know what to think.  I want to let each kid decide their own direction.

 

While I can see the bolded being true for a student in a b&m school, I do not think it is any issue for a homeschooled student, because you are free to customize your student's education.

My DD will graduate one year early, but not more than that. Her high school years served as a seamless transition from homeschool to college environment. Starting with a single class and building up to several, she has been taking college courses on a college campus and been involved in campus activities. She had input in her curriculum at home and chose her outside classes. There is nothing traditionally "highschooly" about her schooling; the only difference to actually being in college is that she still lives at home and does not carry a full course load at college. A benefit of homeschooling is that you can completely tailor your student's education to your student's needs.

[Dmmetler]

My DD is also very focused and very passionate, and it's hard not to worry about the future because she does. She vacillates between wanting to go to college now (usually spurred right after a meeting with her research team-and especially strong if she's spent most of the day on the college campus and then had to put up with her youth cheer teammates or dance classmates that night) and wanting to stay home forever (mostly spurred when I suggest that now is a good time to learn X skill that she'll need to have as an adult. The kid pretty much had a panic attack at the idea that she might, someday, want to be able to do some basic hand sewing....). Right now, I figure getting the research experience and simply exploring is a good thing, and that's the route her mentor is taking as well, where her goal is to expose DD to as many different facets of the career as possible and introduce her to professionals in the field who do different things. I'm also hoping that in a year or two she can get a volunteer position at the nature center and see that side of the field as well. I'm hoping that lets me keep her a little longer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

When my dd was around 10-12, she really thought she wanted to be an ornithologist. Based on her passion for birds her entire childhood, I would have thought so too. But, now at 15, she is even more passionate about languages. I want to keep both doors open for her future.

Ds became passionate about physics in 8th grade. He is still passionate about it. However, the more he talks to professionals, the more he is beginning to form a realistic picture of what that means career wise. When they are younger they love an idea and an interest. When they are older, they start to realize that those interests need to be connected to employment. So while ds is definitely capable of being a theoretical physicist, the actual jobs for that are not what he pictured at 12. He is fine tuning he plans for the future to adapt to his more mature understanding.

[Mrs.Mom]

You all have given me so much to think about, and so much perspective. I really appreciate the dialogue and information.

 

I have no idea the path my son will choose. For now, I let him soak in as much as he can. The head of the film dept at UNCW said he can sit in on a class, or buddy up with a student to get a better idea of what they do in school. Right now, my son is in awe. He is learning what is entailed in the day-to-day details of the career paths. We have to consider, also, that by the time he starts college in 2021/2022... there are going to be even more college majors to choose from - things we don't even have yet! So many opportunities out there!

He is also learning that much of the art comes from experience working with programs - not necessarily a college degree. And he can do so much on his own. But I am helping him gain exposure to new things and helping to support and encourage his dreams - whatever they happen to be today or tomorrow.

I feel relieved about the high school transcripts. I thought they were specific and was afraid of having to make him take algebra 1 again when he is in 9th grade - that would be so incredibly boring for both of us! So it's good to know more about how the college admissions and high school transcript thing works in homeschooling. I've been reading alot about it since yesterday. I don't feel panicky or rushed. Whew! So thank you.

I love homeschooling and being able to cater to their interests. At first, we thought he would go back to public school for high school... but the more I see in him, and the more I see schools changing... and of course, not knowing where we will be living from year to year - it is becoming clear to me we will be homeschooling for high school. This is when I began to realize I should probably know what I am doing. While we are not there yet, we are officially embarking on high school-level courses and I wasn't sure if I needed to document them already, or if that didn't need to happen until 9th grade, etc.

Thank you all for sharing! I feel more more confident in what we are doing. To me, up until now, school has been in my control. High school/college all of a sudden felt so "specific" and it worried me!

Jen

[Mrs.Mom]

Yeah my son cannot wait to get on with his life, but frankly I don't think he has a clue what it will be like.  He sees the endpoint, but he doesn't seem to have a grasp of what it will take to get to that point.  And honestly, what is the hurry!?  Never in his life will he have the kind of time he has now to pursue interests.  That's one thing my husband misses a lot.  He has a lot of interests and hobbies, but life gets in the way and he doesn't get much time to work on them.

 

Exactly!!! it's one thing to know in your head what to expect... it's quite another to be immersed in that new experience!!! That's where that whole "maturity" thing kicks in, eh? ;)

[regentrude]

I feel relieved about the high school transcripts. I thought they were specific and was afraid of having to make him take algebra 1 again when he is in 9th grade - that would be so incredibly boring for both of us! So it's good to know more about how the college admissions and high school transcript thing works in homeschooling. I've been reading alot about it since yesterday. I don't feel panicky or rushed. Whew! So thank you.

 

Come over to the High school Board. You will find a wealth of information there.

[EndOfOrdinary]

First, the CL in CLEP means "College level". There is no "Algebra 1" CLEP because algebra 1 is not a college level course.

Second, as 8FillTheHeart already pointed out, CLEP is not universally accepted by colleges; you need to do some research.

Third, CLEP has nothing to do with transcripts. You can have a course on the transcript without a CLEP test. Nobody will doubt that a student has taken algebra 1, when the student has higher math courses; he still needs four math credits in high school. Similar for foreign languages. If you want something to demonstrate mastery that is useful for college admission, AP or SAT subject tests are preferable. But again, these do not exist for algebra 1. 

 

 

I have actually done the research and spoken directly with 5 academic advisors from major universities in my state and an adjoining state.  I have also had conferences with 3 community college enrollment advisors as well.

 

http://clep.collegeboard.org/exam/college-algebra This is the exam all of them independantly recommended passing as a sign of mastery for high school algebra in order to have my son opt out of showing an entire year of coursework in a portfolio.  All of them also said that direct classes with fairly standardized titles such as Algebra, Trig, Geometry were preferable to different titles which sounded more flowery.  Four of them said they would be leery of a homeschool transcript which did not have have foundational math, but only listed higher level courses.  This was the same for science, English, etc.  Two of them discussed the strong desire for parents of homeschooled children to have such credit by examination methods as CLEP to back up the grading used.

 

"...the College-Level Examination Program (CLEP) has been the most widely trusted credit-by-examination program for over 40 years, accepted by 2,900 colleges and universities and administered in over 1,800 test centers."  Taken directly from the college board website.  CLEP tests were perferred over AP classes in 3 of the schools I talked to because of their standarization. 

 

Though some colleges only allot elective credit for examinations, many actually allow for lower coursework credit.

 

Lastly, the point of CLEP was not to place the class on a transcript, but to give credence to a transcipt which had classes listed, but no portfolio work.  It provides third party documentation to make sure the transcript is not inflated (a major issue with homeschool transcripts according to all 5 schools).  It is also a way to show that my under-aged student is ready for dual enrollment.  CLEP was suggested by all three of the community colleges around us as a way to show that a third party thought my son could handle college work.  It doesn't get him out of entrance exams, but it means he is looked at with legitimacy.

 

Trust me, I have done my research.  I wouldn't comment if I hadn't.

[8filltheheart]

I have actually done the research and spoken directly with 5 academic advisors from major universities in my state and an adjoining state.  I have also had conferences with 3 community college enrollment advisors as well.

 

http://clep.collegeboard.org/exam/college-algebra This is the exam all of them independantly recommended passing as a sign of mastery for high school algebra in order to have my son opt out of showing an entire year of coursework in a portfolio.  All of them also said that direct classes with fairly standardized titles such as Algebra, Trig, Geometry were preferable to different titles which sounded more flowery.  Four of them said they would be leery of a homeschool transcript which did not have have foundational math, but only listed higher level courses.  This was the same for science, English, etc.  Two of them discussed the strong desire for parents of homeschooled children to have such credit by examination methods as CLEP to back up the grading used.

 

"...the College-Level Examination Program (CLEP) has been the most widely trusted credit-by-examination program for over 40 years, accepted by 2,900 colleges and universities and administered in over 1,800 test centers."  Taken directly from the college board website.  CLEP tests were perferred over AP classes in 3 of the schools I talked to because of their standarization. 

 

Though some colleges only allot elective credit for examinations, many actually allow for lower coursework credit.

 

Lastly, the point of CLEP was not to place the class on a transcript, but to give credence to a transcipt which had classes listed, but no portfolio work.  It provides third party documentation to make sure the transcript is not inflated (a major issue with homeschool transcripts according to all 5 schools).  It is also a way to show that my under-aged student is ready for dual enrollment.  CLEP was suggested by all three of the community colleges around us as a way to show that a third party thought my son could handle college work.  It doesn't get him out of entrance exams, but it means he is looked at with legitimacy.

 

Trust me, I have done my research.  I wouldn't comment if I hadn't.

 

I'm sorry, but this entire post shows that you have never navigated high school graduation to college.   I think I have heard of 1 college in all my yrs of homeschooling that wanted to see a portfolio.  (and that is a hoop I would never jump through.)   For the vast majority of avg schools, you write a transcript that lists their classes taken and the grade earned.  In addition, you have them take the ACT/SAT.   That simple.

 

For more select schools, you do the same as above, add in course descriptions, letters of recommendation, school profile, and counselor letter plus SAT subject test scores and that is it (except the student writing essays and possible interviews)  (and for competitive schools, they will need AP scores or dual enrolled credit.)

 

I would love to know what school prefers CLEP over AP.   The AP exam is standardized.   It is requires free response questions and is not simple multiple choice. 

 

Also, there is no pt in receiving credit for lower coursework.   Lower coursework typically does not count toward actual graduation credits.

 

FWIW, all of my kids have dual enrolled......in 3 different states and at 6 different schools (3 universities and 3 community colleges)   SAT/ACT scores are all that were required (CCs take the Compass test scores, as well.)

[regentrude]

 

http://clep.collegeboard.org/exam/college-algebra This is the exam all of them independantly recommended passing as a sign of mastery for high school algebra in order to have my son opt out of showing an entire year of coursework in a portfolio.

 

Passing the College Algebra exam certainly reflects that the student has mastered high school algebra 1, but it is not an "algebra 1" exam, because certain topics on the College Algebra exam are not normally covered in algebra 1: logarithmic and exponential equations, quadratic inequalities, inverse functions, complex numbers, sequences and series, determinants and matrices.

 

CLEP tests were preferred over AP classes in 3 of the schools I talked to because of their standarization. 

 

The correct comparison should be with AP exams which are standardized as well (and much more rigorous than CLEP). Comparing an exam with a class makes no sense, since simply having taken a class gives no information about student performance.

 

Lastly, the point of CLEP was not to place the class on a transcript, but to give credence to a transcipt which had classes listed, but no portfolio work.  It provides third party documentation to make sure the transcript is not inflated (a major issue with homeschool transcripts according to all 5 schools). 

 

None of the colleges my DD has applied to wanted to see a portfolio. My home school transcript was sufficient; grades were substantiated by a selection of SAT subject tests, by SAT and ACT scores, and by grades in dual enrollment courses. DD had interviews with five different schools; none of the interviewers questioned the validity of our home school transcript.

 

Some college specifically require SAT 2 subject tests from all applicants, or from home schooled applicants, and will not accept CLEP as substitutes. This is something to keep in mind when it comes to testing.

 

It is also a way to show that my under-aged student is ready for dual enrollment.  CLEP was suggested by all three of the community colleges around us as a way to show that a third party thought my son could handle college work.  It doesn't get him out of entrance exams, but it means he is looked at with legitimacy.

 

The same legitimacy can be accomplished by having ACT or SAT results. Many users here have underage student in college classes, and having previous CLEP exams has never been required.

 

On the high school board, there is a sticky thread with links to discussions about the merits of the different kinds of tests:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/418045-outsourcing-online-classes-tutors-dual-enrollment-ap-sat-ii-clep-links-to-past-thread-here/

The schools you have interviewed seem to be singular in their preference for CLEP tests; this is not the experience of the majority of posters on the high school board who report that colleges prefer AP or SATII.

 

ETA:

 

spoken directly with 5 academic advisors

 

I am puzzled about this statement because academic advisors do not have anything to do with the admission process. They don't evaluate high school transcripts. They may have the opinion that homeschoolers should have substantiation by some test scores, but they won't be the ones to look at a homeschool transcript or make any decisions about a student's preparation, and they are typically not familiar with the differences between CLEP, AP, and SAT2.

The people who look at transcripts and make decisions sit in the admissions offices. They, in turn, are not qualified to give academic advice.

[SeaConquest]

I cannot imagine any school preferring a CLEP test to AP/IB/SAT 2 as evidence of mastery.

[Crimson Wife]

I would think high scores on the SAT Math Level 2 subject test would be more accepted as validation of a HS transcript than CLEP scores.

[8filltheheart]

This is the exam all of them independantly recommended passing as a sign of mastery for high school algebra in order to have my son opt out of showing an entire year of coursework in a portfolio. All of them also said that direct classes with fairly standardized titles such as Algebra, Trig, Geometry were preferable to different titles which sounded more flowery. Four of them said they would be leery of a homeschool transcript which did not have have foundational math, but only listed higher level courses.

I wanted to add an additional comment about the bolded. Homeschoolers of advanced students across the country have repeatedly reported that it is simply not an issue, so I know our experience is not unique. My son's 9th grade math was precal. He took the sat math 2 at the end of that yr and earned a very high score. That validated his math through precal. He took cal in 10th and took the AP exam and scored a 5. That validated cal. He has dual enrolled at local universities for math the last 2 yrs and his As in those classes and the letters of recommendation from those professors were part of his college application.

 

I did include all of the high school credits he earned prior to 9th grade on his transcript by including a 5th column for <9th grade and listed all of the coursework and the grades. I don't know it if was necessary, but it sure looked cool. :)

 

In addition, you don't have to validate everything. They just want a general sense of what level work is being done. For example, ds had no validation for any of his history, philosophy or French. His only English validation was from his regular SAT/ACT scores and his essays. Latin had the Latin subject test. He also had science AP. Subject test, and dual enrollment. The strength of what he does have validation for validates the entire transcript.

[quark]

I have actually done the research and spoken directly with 5 academic advisors from major universities in my state and an adjoining state.  I have also had conferences with 3 community college enrollment advisors as well.

 

http://clep.collegeboard.org/exam/college-algebra This is the exam all of them independantly recommended passing as a sign of mastery for high school algebra in order to have my son opt out of showing an entire year of coursework in a portfolio.  All of them also said that direct classes with fairly standardized titles such as Algebra, Trig, Geometry were preferable to different titles which sounded more flowery.  Four of them said they would be leery of a homeschool transcript which did not have have foundational math, but only listed higher level courses.  This was the same for science, English, etc.  Two of them discussed the strong desire for parents of homeschooled children to have such credit by examination methods as CLEP to back up the grading used.

 

EndofOrdinary, I can understand how creatively designed humanities courses can be categorized in language that might be flowery to some, but how does one use flowery titles for high school math subjects? Even the non-traditional high school math subjects like number theory or mathematical logic are not flowery names right? Wouldn't it be to a student's advantage to list non-traditional math bunny trails in addition to the standard progression? I would think it's something that would appeal to a good math department no? And I don't understand how they can be leery of a transcript that leaves out foundational subjects like algebra 1 or possibly even geometry when a student has completed those subjects in middle school and in 9th grade, started algebra 2 or trig or precalculus. Wouldn't it be understood that to get to algebra 2, the student would have completed algebra 1 or some equivalent (e.g. an integrated math sequence)? Just curious to know their reasoning behind this. Thanks!

 

[kiana]

I have actually done the research and spoken directly with 5 academic advisors from major universities in my state and an adjoining state.  I have also had conferences with 3 community college enrollment advisors as well.

 

http://clep.collegeboard.org/exam/college-algebra This is the exam all of them independantly recommended passing as a sign of mastery for high school algebra in order to have my son opt out of showing an entire year of coursework in a portfolio.  All of them also said that direct classes with fairly standardized titles such as Algebra, Trig, Geometry were preferable to different titles which sounded more flowery.  Four of them said they would be leery of a homeschool transcript which did not have have foundational math, but only listed higher level courses.  This was the same for science, English, etc.  Two of them discussed the strong desire for parents of homeschooled children to have such credit by examination methods as CLEP to back up the grading used.

 

"...the College-Level Examination Program (CLEP) has been the most widely trusted credit-by-examination program for over 40 years, accepted by 2,900 colleges and universities and administered in over 1,800 test centers."  Taken directly from the college board website.  CLEP tests were perferred over AP classes in 3 of the schools I talked to because of their standarization. 

 

Though some colleges only allot elective credit for examinations, many actually allow for lower coursework credit.

 

Lastly, the point of CLEP was not to place the class on a transcript, but to give credence to a transcipt which had classes listed, but no portfolio work.  It provides third party documentation to make sure the transcript is not inflated (a major issue with homeschool transcripts according to all 5 schools).  It is also a way to show that my under-aged student is ready for dual enrollment.  CLEP was suggested by all three of the community colleges around us as a way to show that a third party thought my son could handle college work.  It doesn't get him out of entrance exams, but it means he is looked at with legitimacy.

 

Trust me, I have done my research.  I wouldn't comment if I hadn't.

College algebra is not algebra 1. It would be a singular student indeed who could pass the College Algebra CLEP after having taken algebra 1. I don't think anyone recommended "flowery" titles, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. Most people list math completed prior to high school in a separate column, if they list it at all -- many have chosen not to list it, and their students have gotten accepted to some pretty excellent schools.

 

I'm not really sure what you're meaning by 'showing an entire year of coursework in a portfolio' -- is this an optional method of admission or required for all homeschooled students? It sounds like a college I would stay away from -- most colleges do not require this level of documentation from homeschooled students.

 

Of *course* college board claims CLEP is the most widely trusted. It's *their* program and they want to talk it up. I will point out, however, that many excellent schools offer far less credit for CLEP, if they offer it at all. For example: Cornell's Arts and Sciences offers no credit for CLEP, only AP/IB/A levels. UW Madison offers no credit for many CLEPs (including college algebra and precalculus) and only offers math elective credit for Calculus. As a matter of fact, all CLEP exams there only give elective credit.  These two were the first Ivy League and flagship state schools that I checked, respectively, but when I was looking into colleges, I found these policies fairly frequently at the better class of schools.

 

Multiple methods of coursework validation are accepted at many universities, including AP, SAT II, CLEP, and for general academic level, SAT/ACT. For example, if a student claims that their freshman year coursework started in Precalc and moved on from there, but scored 22 on the ACT math, that would definitely render their transcript suspect.

 

I wonder if your local community colleges have seen a rash of underprepared and underaged homeschooled students? I do have a friend at a community college somewhere on the west coast who has reported this anecdotally.

[Crimson Wife]

Of *course* college board claims CLEP is the most widely trusted. It's *their* program and they want to talk it up.

Except that College Board also runs the SAT subject tests AND the AP exams. I understand CB talking up CLEP over DANTES (or whatever the current name for those tests are). But I'm not sure why CB would push CLEP over their other exams.

[kiana]

Except that College Board also runs the SAT subject tests AND the AP exams. I understand CB talking up CLEP over DANTES (or whatever the current name for those tests are). But I'm not sure why CB would push CLEP over their other exams.

 

I would suspect that that is because AP is technically not credit-by-exam, but independent verification of coursework completed (for most students) at a school. So saying that it's the most respected CBE just says that 'hey we're better than those guys over there' and not 'we're better than our other products'. But that's just my personal thought. I suspect if you emailed college board (which I have no intention of doing) they would give you some PR statement about how they were for different student populations.

 

[wapiti]

My son is 9 and planned his own high school graduation plan with him graduating at 16 with both his diploma and his Associates degree from the local community college. He informed me of this intent last year and had main much the same panic mode you seem to be expressing. Basically, he wanted to cut out the "exploratory" middle school years. After blocking it out; it wasn't that crazy.

 

One factor to consider is that a student capable of this might also be capable of successfully competing for admission and possibly even scholarships to selective and highly-selective colleges.  The sort of path described above, getting an associates degree while a young high school student, might limit the ability to apply to such institutions as a freshman, no?  It is worth exploring whether this sort of path might foreclose later admission to selective schools as a practical matter.

[8filltheheart]

I would suspect that that is because AP is technically not credit-by-exam, but independent verification of coursework completed (for most students) at a school. So saying that it's the most respected CBE just says that 'hey we're better than those guys over there' and not 'we're better than our other products'. But that's just my personal thought. I suspect if you emailed college board (which I have no intention of doing) they would give you some PR statement about how they were for different student populations.

 

I think this part of the picture, but that there is probably more to it. For example, when taking AP chemistry, the instructor emphasized the need to keep their lab notebooks bc a university might want to see it combined with their test scores prior to granting actual credit. Since APs are typically attached to courses, the assumption is that students are doing labs/write-ups.

 

With CLEP exams, they are not connected to any course expectations. You can walk into a bookstore and buy prep books, study, and take the test. There is no need for labs, writing essays, demonstrating the setting up of a problem with step by step worked out solution, etc bc the only thing that is the gauge is the result of a multiple choice test.

 

Bc of the latter, cleps are open to any individual regardless of age, etc. APs are high school specific. I think it is PR related but universities distinguish bc of the above. I think CB's PR is based on $$.

[Dmmetler]

I have a former college classmate in admission at the state U here, and her statement is that the ACT validates courses for homeschoolers through "required core coursework", but anything beyond that they want to see some outside validation for. That is, if you have a decent ACT score, and a transcript that lists Algebra 1, 2, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus, they're fine with that (and everyone takes a math placement test anyway). If your high school transcript lists those four classes as "before 9th grade", and you have other math classes listed for high school, they want to see some validation of higher level achievement, whether it's AP, a transcript from wherever the student did the class, SAT subject tests, national competition exams such as the AMC 12 or AIME, etc.

 

 

[quark]

I have a former college classmate in admission at the state U here, and her statement is that the ACT validates courses for homeschoolers through "required core coursework", but anything beyond that they want to see some outside validation for. That is, if you have a decent ACT score, and a transcript that lists Algebra 1, 2, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus, they're fine with that (and everyone takes a math placement test anyway). If your high school transcript lists those four classes as "before 9th grade", and you have other math classes listed for high school, they want to see some validation of higher level achievement, whether it's AP, a transcript from wherever the student did the class, SAT subject tests, national competition exams such as the AMC 12 or AIME, etc.

 

Please excuse my curiosity/ ignorance again guys and to repeat what I mentioned in another thread, I am new to high school and college education in the US. When we realized kiddo was working quite quickly across math levels I worried about his high school transcript. Then reading messages here assured and comforted me not to worry. That when a higher math level is listed on the transcript, adcoms will realize that in order to achieve those higher levels the student would have completed the prerequisite algebras, geometry, precalc, calc etc.

 

I don't think we'll have a problem validating with an exam like the subject tests or AP for the first few traditional math years of high school. But if kiddo continues to take math classes with his tutor, how would we validate something like diff eq or linear algebra on his high school transcript? It's very likely that this is what kiddo will be doing when he is chronologically in 9th grade. I've mentioned before that he's not into competitions (assuming there are some higher level math competitions I am unaware of involving diff eq etc).

[Dmmetler]

I'd say have his tutor write up something. Essentially, that would be the same as having a transcript from a DE class.

[quark]

I think this part of the picture, but that there is probably more to it. For example, when taking AP chemistry, the instructor emphasized the need to keep their lab notebooks bc a university might want to see it combined with their test scores prior to granting actual credit. Since APs are typically attached to courses, the assumption is that students are doing labs/write-ups.

 

With CLEP exams, they are not connected to any course expectations. You can walk into a bookstore and buy prep books, study, and take the test. There is no need for labs, writing essays, demonstrating the setting up of a problem with step by step worked out solution, etc bc the only thing that is the gauge is the result of a multiple choice test.

 

Bc of the latter, cleps are open to any individual regardless of age, etc. APs are high school specific. I think it is PR related but universities distinguish bc of the above. I think CB's PR is based on $$.

 

I quickly googled some unis for credit by exam options to compare CLEP and AP last night, after reading this thread, but couldn't immediately see a hugely obvious diff between the two. Your explanation helps a lot, 8, thanks. Would I be right to say that rigor, scope of the exam, exam format and target audience are some of the most obvious differences?

[Mrs.Mom]

This in-depth discussion is validated the confusion I had when I first posted. It really does seem complex...

Luckily, I have a few years to get my plans together before we "officially" begin 9th grade.

I'll read up on the high school board, and talk to a few local high school homeschoolers in person... and see what steps I can take now to ensure a smoother road ahead. Again, thanks for the discussion points!

 

Jen

[Crimson Wife]

But if kiddo continues to take math classes with his tutor, how would we validate something like diff eq or linear algebra on his high school transcript? It's very likely that this is what kiddo will be doing when he is chronologically in 9th grade. I've mentioned before that he's not into competitions (assuming there are some higher level math competitions I am unaware of involving diff eq etc).

After calculus, I would take higher level courses through an established & well-respected program like Stanford's EPGY http://ohs.stanford.edu/divisions/university_mathematics.html or Johns Hopkins' CTY http://cty.jhu.edu/ctyonline/courses/mathematics/index.html#College_Level

 

Top colleges are familiar with EPGY & CTY, and I know that MIT specifically recommends them on their info page for HS applicants.

[8filltheheart]

I quickly googled some unis for credit by exam options to compare CLEP and AP last night, after reading this thread, but couldn't immediately see a hugely obvious diff between the two. Your explanation helps a lot, 8, thanks. Would I be right to say that rigor, scope of the exam, exam format and target audience are some of the most obvious differences?

Yes, those are some of the main differences. The exam formats are very different. If you actually spend more time investigating universities, you will find a huge difference between what is accepted. For example, I think even the schools that do give credit for calculus equate it more like the AB exam vs. BC. But, the type of institutions granting credit are where you are going to see the biggest differences.

 

Highly competitive schools use the rigor of AP courses as admission filters.......kids not taking these types of classes are not going to be admitted (harsh reality). Really top schools aren't going to give credit for AP scores, but they may used for placement purposes. For example, students that have 5s on a BC exam might be put in a higher level theory cal class than those entering with lower scores, etc.

 

Lower tier schools are going to give more credit for APs and are more likely to give CLEP credit. Using the schools that ds has applied to as examples....students applying to MIT and GA Tech that are like ds that have lots of higher level credit are not going to walk on campus and pick up where they left off at the end of their last semester. For example, GA Tech will give credit for cal 1 for a 5 on the BC exam. They will most likely not accept any of ds's college credits. Their honors courses are taught on a more theoretical level (similar to AoPS ) vs. standard textbook approach.

 

UAlabama, otoh, will accept all of his courses, he would start in jr level math/physics courses. UA is very generous with AP credits and does give CLEP credit.

 

But.....MIT is not in the same class as UA. If you want to see the difference, google university rankings and search the AP credit policy of the top schools vs. lower schools. You will see a pattern. Really top don't give much AP credit and zero CLEP. Slightly lower will give AP credit and no CLEP. Lower still will be very generous with AP and accept SOME CLEP. That is simple reality.

 

Eta: I should also point out that top schools that do give credit limit the amt. it appears that 16 hrs is typical. For ds, just his 2 AP exams, chem can cal bc, give 16 hrs of credit at lower level schools. That means that all of his math and physics credits that he has taken at the local universities cannot be used.

[kiana]

Please excuse my curiosity/ ignorance again guys and to repeat what I mentioned in another thread, I am new to high school and college education in the US. When we realized kiddo was working quite quickly across math levels I worried about his high school transcript. Then reading messages here assured and comforted me not to worry. That when a higher math level is listed on the transcript, adcoms will realize that in order to achieve those higher levels the student would have completed the prerequisite algebras, geometry, precalc, calc etc.

 

I don't think we'll have a problem validating with an exam like the subject tests or AP for the first few traditional math years of high school. But if kiddo continues to take math classes with his tutor, how would we validate something like diff eq or linear algebra on his high school transcript? It's very likely that this is what kiddo will be doing when he is chronologically in 9th grade. I've mentioned before that he's not into competitions (assuming there are some higher level math competitions I am unaware of involving diff eq etc).

 

First, I'd check with admissions officials at a few schools that seem plausible. Using DE through EPGY or CTY is one option (his tutor could continue to work with him).

However, if that isn't an option, if he has an SAT 2 test and an AP test showing an excellent score (as I suspect he will) after his calculus class, it will seem likely that his further courses are similarly up to snuff.

[quark]

Thank you for all the replies, everyone. Running out now but will come back again to read more carefully. Thanks again!

[8filltheheart]

I don't think we'll have a problem validating with an exam like the subject tests or AP for the first few traditional math years of high school. But if kiddo continues to take math classes with his tutor, how would we validate something like diff eq or linear algebra on his high school transcript? It's very likely that this is what kiddo will be doing when he is chronologically in 9th grade. I've mentioned before that he's not into competitions (assuming there are some higher level math competitions I am unaware of involving diff eq etc).

He wouldn't be the only in this situation. Write course descriptions, record the books used. At the end of each yr, you could request his mentor to write a review, etc.

 

But, that would be for admissions. Some of the really select schools might allow him to test for placement into higher level classes, but those are the few. More likely he will have to start back at cal 2 or 3 from placement on the AP exam bc of no accredited source for the credit. (But, if ds went to GT, even with his accredited courses, ds would most likely be placed back in cal 2)

 

ETA:  this is why the idea of never repeating a course or that CLEP or dual enrollment mean that a student automatically is accepted at a certain level is only true if they limit where they plan to go to college.   For really strong students, it means that they are going to be limiting themselves to certain schools.   It is a decision that our ds faces.   Does he go somewhere where he starts off with no credit, allowed 16 credits, or 43 credits?  And since he wants to go to graduate school, how do each of those options affect his graduate school options?  

 

It is definitely not as simple as "I am going to have my student CLEP to an associates degree or dual enroll for all of the classes, etc.