Help with a 4 year old that wants to "do homeschool math" like his sister

[Spring Flower]

My four year old son has been begging to do homeschool math. I've hesitated to start anything because he is so young. He taught himself to read a while ago and can write all his letters. He enjoys sitting at the table with DD and I while we do homeschool and he has picked up much of what she has been doing. DD6 is doing Saxon math 3 intermediate, MEP and LoF, by the way. 

 

DS memorized his addition and subtraction facts right along with his sister. He has recently taught himself the multiplication and division facts. (DD hasn't mastered them all yet.) He knows them all backwards and forwards. He is starting to teach himself mental multistep multiplication. He has also taught himself addition and subtracting with negative numbers and is trying to puzzle out multiplication and division with negative numbers using his calculator. I bought my DD a pizza fraction game for Christmas and now DS teaching himself adding and subtracting fractions with the game. 

 

He seems to be doing pretty well on his own right? He asks about "doing homeschool math" almost everyday, though. With much hesitation, a couple of months ago I told him we would start math after Christmas break. He specifically asked to do Saxon 1 so I opened the book last night to look over what we would do on Monday. As far as I can tell, the only thing Saxon 1 can teach him is MAYBE money. I see no point in using this book at all. Saxon 2 is looking a little more promising, but not very. I'm absolutely baffled. DD has done very well with Saxon and I've been able to accelerate her with out any problems. I don't know what to do with DS!

 

(FYI, he still eats with his fingers and will NOT wear clothes unless we leave the house.) 

 

For the time being I think we will start on MEP. I looked through the first 50 lessons and there is enough to at least keep him busy this week but I feel like I need to do something else. I think he will finish MEP 1 very, very quickly. Do I just move on to level 2? I've considered buying BA for my DD but I have hesitated to do so. I think BA will be a good fit for DS but I don't know if it would work at this point. He has never done any formal written math and I feel like he needs to do some basic "worksheets" to get him started. The recent thread about alternatives to BA got me looking more into Borac and Zaccaro but I don't know if those would be appropriate either. 

 

Any advice? 

 

On a related note, DD seems upset that her little brother knows more math than she does. He walks around the house all day reciting math facts and it drives her crazy. He spouts off math knowledge everywhere he goes and everyone, even strangers comment on it in amazement. He isn't showing off, he just loves to think about math and his thoughts are always verbalized. (He basically talks to himself.) Has anyone had to deal with this type of situation? 

 

[maize]

I had a brother who was like this as a four year old. He followed that love of math clear through graduate school.

 

I know some people like miquon for young mathy kids, you might follow that up with Beast Academy and just see where it goes.

 

Edited because auto correct was convinced I couldn't really think mathy was a word...

[maize]

With regard to your DD, you might explain to her that for some people there s one thing that they are really passionate about and think about all the time. Other people have a variety of interests they follow. It's ok for her brother to be passionate about math, and it is just as ok for her not to be.

[Spring Flower]

I had a brother who was like this as a four year old. He followed that love of math clear through graduate school.

 

I know some people like miquon for young Kathy kids, you might follow that up with Beast Academy and just see where it goes.

Miquon looks like a good option. I'll look into it more.

[Kerileanne99]

I have a very Mathy 4-yr-old too:)

If it involves numbers, numerical relationships, even songs she equates to math in her little brain it can run all day long.

 

We mostly played with math through games, bathtime, exploration for quite some time. We did RS A and B for fun, mostly focusing on very short lessons and games.. But when she decided that SHE wanted to suprise Daddy for Christmas last year by learning her multiplication facts (3 weeks after her 3rd bday) I decided we would go with some structure.

We do Singapore, and love it. Honestly, she would have been fine starting at a higher level, but being so young I wanted her to develop confidence, practice, writing, etc., AND I wanted to be able to show progression as she went through them. And go through them she has, VERY rapidly. We have just started 3A and I have been pulling in a lot of fun supplements, puzzles, and games. I do not see it as a race to get through it, but rather it means she has much more time to take her love deeper and broaden her interests.

 

If yours is like mine, the main program alone will solidify concepts, provide practice with things I might have overlooked if we hadn't taken the time to do them...things like practicing lining up the columns in a 3-digit problem, little things that can make a huge difference...not to mention it has given her a much greater number sense as she can now often talk me through different ways of solving a problem.

 

At the same time, we do not stick to that linear progression of skills...that is what the backbone is for! Games, books like LoF and 'Penrose' HER kitty cat:), living math books (at least 1 every night for bedtime reading), 'math baths' (baths with a huge bucket of any math manipulative you can image for her exploration), apps, Hands on Equations, etc., help to stimulate her brain and keep her love of math and numbers fed. This has been amazing because she isn't limited to what she can physically write out or get through in her math books.

 

Also, you might take a look at Japanese Soroban. Classes are offered now in many major cities, but there are also ways to do it online. This has made such a HUGE impact on my dd, and some of her heroes are older kids that can do truly amazing rapid mental calculations. And it might be something truly for his own:)

 

Edit: I saw you mentioned learning money above. I made my kiddo a store, but she truly learned money when I made it a point to use cash in the store with her...I told her that if she could count the coins she could keep them! Then made up additional challenges like having her calculate how much change I should get back before the cashier did:)

A dollar store trip once per month, and she was sold.

[MissKNG]

Mathy story books are always a hit too!

[Spring Flower]

Thanks for your response. It seems like our children are very similar. I'll look into some of the things you mentioned.

 

 

Edit: I saw you mentioned learning money above. I made my kiddo a store, but she truly learned money when I made it a point to use cash in the store with her...I told her that if she could count the coins she could keep them! Then made up additional challenges like having her calculate how much change I should get back before the cashier did:)
A dollar store trip once per month, and she was sold.

 

I have thought about taking some food items from our pantry and labeling them with prices and making a "mini store" at our house. I think DD and DS would have fun with this, especially if I gave them real money. 

[kbutton]

My kids are not working at this pace or this self-motivated, but I have some ideas that might offer you some flexibility without lots of extra money for books you'll fly through.

 

I use Miquon for my younger son, and I think you'll have to skip around in it to get what you need. It's made to be able to handle it, but it starts well below where you son seems to be. It's inexpensive if you want to go that route. You might look into the Education Unboxed videos online (free) if he likes Cuisinaire rods. The videos fit well with Miquon. Both resources fit well with kids who do little writing.

 

Many math programs offer placement tests online. It sounds like you'll be skipping around in whatever program you choose as well as potentially compacting it. We use Singapore with my older son, and if you go that route, definitely consider the IP and maybe the CWP. The IP turns concepts around and makes you use them in several ways. I would say that the IP has some similar problems to the text as well as harder ones, whereas the workbooks and Extra Practice have textbook level and easier problems. I love Singapore word problems, and I think the IP is the best thing since sliced bread. We started homeschooling after a few years of private school, so my exposure to Singapore has been level three and up, and my exposure to the IP and CWP has been to level 4.

 

If you want to let him continue to move forward on his own and just fill in potential gaps or work topically, I think Math Mammoth has options for both approaches, and my impression is that you can get the whole program fairly inexpensively on CD (PDFs, I think), esp. if there is a sale. I have not used it, but if I were in your shoes and elected to not start a formal math program, I would consider it or something like it just to have something on hand as a mental (or real) checklist or resource that won't take up a whole bookshelf. I considered Math Mammoth before deciding to go with Singapore.

[Spring Flower]

It sounds like you'll be skipping around in whatever program you choose as well as potentially compacting it. 

 

This is what I am thinking will have to happen. I hate spending so much on curriculum and then we only use a part of it. This is one reason why I want to just stick with Saxon is because I already have the books and I am familiar with the program and how to accelerate it. Singapore has always been tempting and Miquon looks like it might have potential as well. I did buy the money book for Math Mammoth but I don't know about the rest of the program. From the samples I've looked at it doesn't look like it will be great fit over all. I think I would lean more toward Singapore or Miquon. I wish I could look at the actual books and hold them in my hands. A few samples online isn't working for me. If I go the Singapore route is seems like it will be more pricey especially if I also buy the IP and CWP. We'll likely move through the levels quickly so I'll have to buy several of them. Miquon seems like a more safe option financially and I would likely get all 6 books at once and work through them at whatever pace is best. Miquon however seems more like a band-aid fix and Singapore seems like a long term solution. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Any other input from parents who've radically accelerated their children in math? How do you keep up with the purchasing of curriculum?

 

I need to step back and remind myself that he is only 4 and to relax. I guess I'm worrying too much about 2-3 years down the road but I can't even imagine what homeschooling will look like for this child. It feels overwhelming.  :(

[Kathy G]

What about Life of Fred?  The story is fun for a 4 year old and there are plenty of avenues for deeper enrichment.

 

 

Any other input from parents who've radically accelerated their children in math? How do you keep up with the purchasing of curriculum?

  :(

I have a radically accelerated 15 year old.  I  have to watch ebay, curriculum swaps etc.  It is expensive!!!

[Spring Flower]

What about Life of Fred?  

 

We LOVE Fred in this house.

 

DS wants to do work from a "math book" like his sister. I'm starting to lean toward Singapore for DS. It is the only thing that looks like it will keep him happy. I may just switch DD over, too, so I only have to buy the textbooks once. 

[Kerileanne99]

I think you wil most DEFINITELY be jumping around. Even within the same book/program. As I stated above, we absolutely love Singapore, and it is an awesome fit for us. I especially love it because it coincides with my dd''s love of Soroban.

Again, as I mentioned above, we do a tremendous amount of supplementation in other areas. Beast Academy, LoF, even just biographical materials on mathematicians and scientists keep her happy.

 

I have found that even within Singapore we jump around...primarily because of her age and the asynchronous abilities. For example, she might do a couple of pages of mental math that takes a bit, or write out a few problems of something on the whiteboard as this is 'easier' for her at newly-four than writing in the workbook...then skip ahead 1/2 through the book to do some more 'easy-peasy' simple division problems, fractions, beginning decimal work:)

I just make sure that she doesn't skip around through the parts that build on each other!

 

And YES! It can get very expensive! One thing I would say....(IMVHO) that you could do to save a bit of cash with Singapore given the ages and abilities of your kids: for the first couple of levels. I read the book by Liping Ma regarding Asian-style math first, then skipped the actual textbooks and and HIG's for 1A-2B (actually I bought them and never used them as I felt confident after Ma's book, experience, and the fact that kiddo already knew the material), until about 3a...I am now using all of the books, mostly for ideas on play and expansion.

Instead, definitely spend the money on the INtensive Practice books in particular, and the CWP books.

Continue to work on things like geometry, graphing, time, money, algebra basics, even calculus basics like x,y planes...and definitely look at all the Theomi Pappas book, especially the Penrose series! We love the Puzzles book the most right now.

 

And I find it is actually cheaper to plan ahead, even knowing that you might be somewhat off, to hunt for deals on future levels, than to wait until it is a necessity:)

[kbutton]

If your son is catching up with your daughter (and maybe surpassing her on some topics from what you've said), and you are thinking about switching her to Singapore, maybe you can do the placement test with her, see where she is, and then start buying at her level. Then, you can see what gaps your son has (or where he is in relation to her) and buy Singapore materials for him based on that (or fill in the gaps yourself). Good luck!  

[Korrale]

If you already have Saxon and are looking for the most economical option I would just keep going through Saxon and skipping over what he is competent with. Supplement with lots of games.

 

I have a mathy little boy who just turned 4. I use several curriculums, games, apps and living math books. I use a lot of different things to slow him done some.

We started with RS. And we dabbled with Miquon and Singapore. My son didn't take to Miquon. Nor did he take to Singapore... Really not sure why.

Now we use Go Math! Which is a Singapore, Saxon hybrid. The books are $15-$20 per grade and amazingly thorough. The books are well over 500 pages. I would skip the kindergarten book and start at the first grade book.

We also use Spectrum math books, which might be a good option for your son as well. They are about $8 a grade. I would skip kindergarten and let your son work through the books at his leisure until he gets to a point where he need instruction. The books are pretty simple, but cover everything solidly in a traditional way.

 

And I would continue doing enrichment activities. Preview Life of Fred on their site. Maybe it is a good fit.

[Korrale]

Lest I forget GATE books. I think the publishers name is Flash Kids. My son has some of their books for Gifted and Talented students. They are enriching. So they don't cover all the basics of math, they cover problem solving and more. My son really likes them.

[rzberrymom]

Any other input from parents who've radically accelerated their children in math? How do you keep up with the purchasing of curriculum?:(

I started out my daughter on Stanford EPGY for this reason--I had spent a ton on different curriculums, but then found out the early stuff was too easy for her and it went to waste. The EPGY interface is really out-of-date, but it was fantastic that it accelerates if the kid gets the concept and slows down if they need more help (that made math feel much less tedious for her). And once she sped through the eqivalent of 3 years of EPGY, it was a super easy transition to Singapore (they seemed very similar to me).

 

Only downside is that I wasn't thrilled with a little kid being on the computer for math. So, we also played with Penrose, math wizardry books, etc.

[MomatHWTK]

There are tons of free websites that offer printables and even lessons.  If there is a topic you want to study with your DS, just do a search and see what comes up.  Learning.com offers reasonably priced programs.  As far as pay programs, we use Starfall, Dreambox, individual computer games (Katsuko), and Great Courses (as the need arises). 

 

Used ps textbooks are often available cheap as well.  If the book costs less than a workbook, just let him write in it!  Also, the textbook makers often offer extra games and tutorials on their sites.  McGraw Hill does if I recall correctly. 

 

Here are some links:

http://macmillanmh.com/

http://www.harcourtschool.com/menus/l_math.html

http://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Browse/PreK-12-Subject-Area/Math/Order:Price-Asc

http://letsplaymath.net/

http://www.mathsisfun.com/basic-math-definitions.html

 

http://www.learning.com/providers/learning/

 

http://www.homeschoolmath.net/online/curricula.php#elementary

 

http://teachers.henrico.k12.va.us/math/hcpsalgebra1/

 

For kids passing each other, I just tell it like it is.  I have four and they are all over the place.  The youngest is picking things up quicker than the others (though not passing) and they see it so I have no choice.  We are happy for the successes of others and love ourselves as we are.  KWIM?