Teaching from Textbooks

[athomeontheprairie]

Awhile ago, there was a post on the value of teaching from a textbook vs. living books. It was a rather lengthy post. I've tried searching for it and going back, and yet I can't find it. Does anyone know the post I'm talking about? Can you link me to it?

 

My dh teaches at our area tech college. Over the past couple of years there we have seen a lack of prepardness of his students. An example: for the past month they have been studying two chapters. They hear lectures about it, they read about it, they go to the shop and apply the knowledge to the machines. In the shop they preform quite well. In the lectures they ask questions and appear to show a working knowledge of the material being taught. In the readings... well they are failing. Miserably. In an open book test they had to anwser 20 multiple choice questions. There was no time limit. Most scored 69% and below. No one scored above a 90%. The instuctors in other departments are having similar problems. The manuals (and text books) are written at an 11th grade reading level. This is where the problem lies. They are unable to comprehend what they are reading. The college offers assistence and many of the students have told my dh (and the ones I know have said the same to me) that they don't want help.

They are not able to pass the reading portions of the studies. Why is this important at a technical school, some would ask? They are going to learn a hands on trade! That doesn't require reading comprehension. Well... Since manuals are written at an 11th grade reading level (though, many are lowering their standards to a 9th grade level due to many ESL workers), when they hit a problem in the real world that they can't solve they have to be able to understand the manual.

 

The conversations my dh and I have been having discussing this at length. There is a good chance this will change the way we approach how we educate our own kids (not completely but in part). We want to build their reading skills to the point where they are able to understand harder texts. But textbooks are another story. They present information in a different format than regular books and we want our kids to be able to use that information easily before they hit college.

 

The post I can't find made many more (and certainly better worded!) arguments for all the many reasons we should be teaching our children from these types of books. I would love to find this link. And I would love to hear your thoughts on this, and how you plan to teach your children these skills before college.

 

 

 

[regentrude]

Sorry, no help on the link, but I completely agree with your DH's observations. My university students do everything possible to avoid doing the assigned textbook reading, and many seem to have difficulties comprehending what they read, if they do so.

 

The way I approach it with my own children:

except for math, I use no textbooks before high school work, which we start in 8th grade. In high school, we have textbooks for science and for history (the latter is used as a spine to last for several years and is greatly augmented with original literature etc)

I find high school books of poor quality, so we are using introductory college texts for non-majors in the science, and older college history texts (the Short History of Western Civ recommended in the old WTM is brilliant, because it still has consecutive text and is not visually cluttered like the modern books.)

 

My kids read and take notes. I do not teach formal outlining; they can choose their own format for note taking they find suitable (I never outlined, and never encountered the technique in school, university, and grad school in my home country). In the beginning, I have to help and look over their notes to make sure they only write the essentials; beginners often write down too much. The goal should be to be able to study just from the notes.

For a class that is accompanied by lectures, I only require reading but not notetaking, but if the class is home based, reading the text and taking notes is the central activity, aside from working problems.

 

I give explicit instruction on how to read a science text: read the main text, but also read and actively work through every example problem. Skim sidebar illustrations, make only note of existence of tables; those are usually for reference. The main issue are the examples; students tend to glance over them without actually trying to follow the steps, which is mostly useless.

[dbmamaz]

I use a variety of books, textbooks when they seem appropriate.  I dont think its an either or.  But reading comprehension i believe does the best with a slight challenge, not too hard and not too easy.

[Arcadia]

. In an open book test they had to anwser 20 multiple choice questions. There was no time limit. Most scored 69% and below. No one scored above a 90%.

This might not be the link you are looking for but I just put it below so that we can maybe narrow down which thread you are looking for.

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/467812-developing-advanced-reading-skills/

 

I find for open book exams, students are not taught the skill of taking them. For example, a student could be allowed to bring in the paperback dictionary for an elementary level untimed writing test.  IF the child does not know how to search the dictionary, it is as good as not bringing the dictionary to the exam hall.

 

"Having books and notes to refer to might mean you don't have to memorise as much information, but you still need to be able to apply it effectively.

This means you must fully understand and be familiar with the content and materials of your course so you can find and use the appropriate information. In Open Book exams, you need to quickly locate the information you need in the resources you have. If you don't study you won't be able to locate relevant information–you won't know where it is." (link)

 

"Learning from Textbooks: A guide to university learning"

[8filltheheart]

My response is similar to Regentrude's. My kids don't use textbooks until high school credit science and history and the history textbooks are college textbooks, science depends. They learn to take notes from their reading and from Teaching Co lectures. For my kids, not using textbooks earlier has been an advantage in learning to read and discriminate important info from less important. But, the books they have been reading prior to high school are well-written non-fiction sources, not things like historical fiction.

[Lanny]

"The manuals (and text books) are written at an 11th grade reading level. This is where the problem lies. They are unable to comprehend what they are reading. The college offers assistence and many of the students have told my dh (and the ones I know have said the same to me) that they don't want help."

 

There you have it.  "They don't want help".  If someone does not want to change or improve or learn, they are not going to do it.

 

Reading Comprehension, or the lack of it, is something they will run into, if they apply for employment with major corporations.

 

Their belief is, apparently, "I have chosen to study a Trade, not a Profession, and I don't need to do that"

 

That will only get them so far, with major employers who want their employees to be able to study and understand manuals about the operation of machines that are increasingly complex. Those employers give pre employment examinations and the ability to learn is something they are looking for, in new employees coming in to work in a trade.

 

Those same students probably would not qualify for enlistment in the U.S. Military, because of their Reading Comprehension problems.

 

Yesterday, my DD spent awhile, looking in the 3  textbooks we have already received for 7th grade. The Science textbook is by the same publisher, Glencoe,  as the 6th grade textbook, but the 6th grade textbook was a special edition for Texas and the 7th grade textbook is a National edition. Both are by National Geographic Society.  DD said that she doesn't know approximately 50% of the words in the 7th grade Science textbook.  I told her, that's great, you will not be wasting your time or money, because there is a lot of new material for you to learn.   :-)

[alisoncooks]

Interesting.

I am certainly not opposed to textbooks.  I use a history textbook and a science textbook as "back-ups." :p  We read lots of fun library books on science & history topics that interest us... but we also go chapter by chapter through our textbooks.  We make note of important vocabulary and write it/illustrate its meaning in a notebook.  We summarize the important "take-away" from the chapter. My kids are only K and 2nd (obviously the 2nd grader does more than her sister, haha), but I anticipate continuing in this way.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I don't see it as either/or at any age. My dd (12yo, 7th grade) doesn't seem to have been harmed by using both textbooks and living books for most subjects.

 

As a young child, when she could barely see over the tables to see the books at used book sales, she would pick a variety of textbooks and living books. I saw no reason to make her put back the textbooks. (Well, except the college physics textbook that looked like it had seen many cleaner, dryer days, and I promised to find her a better copy if she wanted it.) She happily reads both textbooks and living books in her free time.

 

We are just now starting the crossover to introductory college texts for our formal studies. (In addition to living books, of course.)

[quark]

Awhile ago, there was a post on the value of teaching from a textbook vs. living books. It was a rather lengthy post. I've tried searching for it and going back, and yet I can't find it. Does anyone know the post I'm talking about? Can you link me to it?

 

Is it this post?

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/450466-science-with-living-books-not-textbooks-can-it-be-done-at-the-hs-level/

 

Another:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/448688-living-books-ditching-textbook-science-etc/

[quark]

Edited. :P Sorry, I don't think I answered the second question. Hope those 2 links above help!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Edited. :p Sorry, I don't think I answered the second question. Hope those 2 links above help!

 

Wasn't quick enough this time to like it or quote it! I enjoyed your post and felt it contributed!