serendipitous journey Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 ... has anyone heard of these folks: "Classical Curriculum"? The curriculum itself is a the booklist from Angelicum/Great Books Academy (which we're using as one primary source this year), with some interesting and some odd additions (see esp. movies included in the early elementary lists). I was very interested at first but there are a couple of flags: the group originating the curriculum are not transparently identified; the list of keywords near the top of the curriculum page is nothing but search-engine bait; and the current "Book of the Week" is Camp of the Saints which I've not read but clearly has some unusual racial/whiteness issues at its core. Plus there is a genetics of the British book ... well, on reflection, there are many disturbing flags. And the only supported foreign language is German, which they validate with a link to an article substantiating this option but which is unfortunate given the other stuff... at any rate, keeping the conversation polite, any thoughts? information? Have I missed threads on this (totally likely, I'm sick and sleep deprived this past month!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hmm...definitely feels dodgy. I clicked on some of the book links and they lead to Amazon affiliate links. One of the multimedia links (I think something about Troy) is on Amazon selling for $100+. I don't see any disclosures on the website about being an Amazon affiliate. Some of the selections also look like they could be from Ambleside Online's list? I might be wrong. Didn't look too closely. There seems to be absolutely no identifying information like you said. Who is behind it? I agree. That in itself is a red flag to me. ETA: with all those keywords on top too...weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hmm .. I find the content in those links identify transparently enough for me. (To name just two: articles against mixed race marriage and one that includes this against learning Spanish: "Unless one wants to pursue a career in landscaping or move to Mexico, there is very little practical advantage to learning Spanish and multiple intellectual advantages to studying other languages. Most Spanish speakers around the world are uneducated (e.g. the Amerindian / Mestizo populations of the New World), reinforcing Spanish's lowbrow aura. Most (Amerindian/Mestizo-dominated) Spanish-speaking countries have low average IQs (e.g. Equador, 80; Guatemala, 79; Mexico, 87; Puerto Rico, 84); whereas French and German-speaking countries have high average IQs (e.g. Austria, 102; Belgium, 100; France, 98; Germany, 102, and Switzerland, 101). To study a language in part is to study and mimic the people who speak it. The question then is whether one wants to emulate a low-IQ people or a high-IQ people. By Studying Spanish, one will imitate those of lower IQs.") How does one discuss this and keep the conversation polite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tress Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hmm .. I find the content in those links identify transparently enough for me. (To name just two: articles against mixed race marriage and one that includes this against learning Spanish: "Unless one wants to pursue a career in landscaping or move to Mexico, there is very little practical advantage to learning Spanish and multiple intellectual advantages to studying other languages. Most Spanish speakers around the world are uneducated (e.g. the Amerindian / Mestizo populations of the New World), reinforcing Spanish's lowbrow aura. Most (Amerindian/Mestizo-dominated) Spanish-speaking countries have low average IQs (e.g. Equador, 80; Guatemala, 79; Mexico, 87; Puerto Rico, 84); whereas French and German-speaking countries have high average IQs (e.g. Austria, 102; Belgium, 100; France, 98; Germany, 102, and Switzerland, 101). To study a language in part is to study and mimic the people who speak it. The question then is whether one wants to emulate a low-IQ people or a high-IQ people. By Studying Spanish, one will imitate those of lower IQs.") How does one discuss this and keep the conversation polite? :iagree: This alone is enough for me to not want anything to do with the people behind this website. I'm always interested in new classical curriculum websites, but this one is just too weird. Their use of the term 'highbrow' in 'The following is a high-brow, high-IQ classical curriculum...' also made me wonder, is this a spoof? I've only heard 'highbrow' used in a negative way, but maybe I'm wrong...English is a foreign language for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The same site also publishes "Jew lists" with names of Jews in my country.Why do they do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 They can't be serious. Who in their right mind would recommend showing 2nd graders "The Virgin Spring?" Here is the synopsis from IMDb: Set in beautiful 14th century Sweden, it is the sombre, powerful fable of wealthy land-owning parents whose daughter, a young virgin, is brutally raped and murdered by goat herders after her half sister has invoked a pagan curse. By a bizarre twist of fate, the murderers ask for food and shelter from the dead girl's parents, who, discovering the truth about their erstwhile lodgers, exact a chilling revenge. Not the kind of movie that we show 2nd graders in my house! :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 They have posted off and on on a high school list I'm part of and used to have a horrible article about foreign languages, quite prejudiced in tone. They were finally removed because they only posted their link once a year and were considered spammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eloquacious Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ugh. I am German-born, and the thought of anyone teaching my language for such reasons makes me want to vomit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Thank you, everyone. After I posted this last night and gone to be I kept mulling it over, and became very ambivalent about the post, because the various odd things I'd noticed could only add to to one conclusion -- essentially neo-nazism. Mrs. P, regarding transparency I was thinking of site owner transparency -- real telephone number, street address, personal names &c -- I had not read that link. You are right, it is utterly transparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 (filling out an accidental double post) -- again, thank you so much everybody. This just seemed so nice at first blush -- a thorough outline of rigorous materials, including a language progression and movie options -- but then seemed so ugly, and is. It is reassuring for me to touch in with the consensus reality of The Hive :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tress Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tress Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 If I were the Great Books Academy / Angelicum I would be very upset. This site almost completely copied&pasted their curriculum. Is that even legal? ETA, serendipitous journey, I so understand the lure of a greatclassical curriculum outline and booklist :). What I wouldn't give for something like that in Dutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 If I were the Great Books Academy / Angelicum I would be very upset. This site almost completely copied&pasted their curriculum. Is that even legal? I agree -- we are enrolled with them and I will e-mail them this information and my concerns. It may be something they are aware of, but if not they ought to be informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ehm... because they are neo-nazis. It has been years since I first came across that list, and it still exists today. Apparently, neither Google nor the hosting company thinks it should be banned. This list is the first thing that comes up when you search for "History of Jewish people in [city where we live]". My friend's mother is on the list because she is a theater actress — it's just prominent people. There is nothing she can do about it. People like this are the reason the local synagogue is guarded by police officers 24 hours a day. It was kind of scary to discover that some of these people are also members of TWTM forums. Maybe that explains why there are some people on here who have no issue with young children reading inappropriate (for their age) literature and watching movies they shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tress Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 It was kind of scary to discover that some of these people are also members of TWTM forums. We have neo-nazis on the WTMforum :svengo:?? I missed that. Propbably good that I missed that, but stil :blink: . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The site has been discussed and criticized here in the past. I can't find the thread, but do remember that there was a post from Ester Maria with a list of recommended Spanish authors. (I miss EM! Even her tirades were informative. :001_smile: ) ETA: Found it -- Reasons not to learn Spanish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 The site has been discussed and criticized here in the past. I can't find the thread, but do remember that there was a post from Ester Maria with a list of recommended Spanish authors. (I miss EM! Even her tirades were informative. :001_smile: ) ETA: Found it -- Reasons not to learn Spanish oh, thank you! I miss EM too. And Spanish literature/poetry are one of my major reasons for Spanish as a first living foreign language here. So we can read Neruda and, if I am stunningly successful in learning the language, Bolano in the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I think I spent too much time checking out their linked articles and it has deeply grieved me since. :( what they're calling Pro-Western Christianity has made me physically ill. It's difficult to imagine any neo-nazis spending much time interacting with a bunch of "cultural marxists" like us on this forum. :-/ I'm very curious now ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I think I spent too much time checking out their linked articles and it has deeply grieved me since. :( what they're calling Pro-Western Christianity has made me physically ill. Then I'm glad I only took a brief look last night. Ugggh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hmm .. I find the content in those links identify transparently enough for me. (To name just two: articles against mixed race marriage and one that includes this against learning Spanish: "Unless one wants to pursue a career in landscaping or move to Mexico, there is very little practical advantage to learning Spanish and multiple intellectual advantages to studying other languages. Most Spanish speakers around the world are uneducated (e.g. the Amerindian / Mestizo populations of the New World), reinforcing Spanish's lowbrow aura. Most (Amerindian/Mestizo-dominated) Spanish-speaking countries have low average IQs (e.g. Equador, 80; Guatemala, 79; Mexico, 87; Puerto Rico, 84); whereas French and German-speaking countries have high average IQs (e.g. Austria, 102; Belgium, 100; France, 98; Germany, 102, and Switzerland, 101). To study a language in part is to study and mimic the people who speak it. The question then is whether one wants to emulate a low-IQ people or a high-IQ people. By Studying Spanish, one will imitate those of lower IQs.") How does one discuss this and keep the conversation polite? That makes me want to punch somebody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Maybe that explains why there are some people on here who have no issue with young children reading inappropriate (for their age) literature and watching movies they shouldn't. Oh yes, I'm sure that's it. Anyone who lets their child read a book or watch a movie you disagree with is OBVIOUSLY a Neo-Nazi. :001_rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 What happened to EM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ester Maria left the boards; it was shortly after the big Circe thread/discussions as I remember. I am having trouble locating her farewell post, I think because it predates the newer board format. She was very educated, very opinionated, and had a view of Classical Education that stems from the European Classical tradition -- Classical Classical, that is, not neo-Classical. She was maddening, marvelous and she is sorely missed! What happened to EM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Oh yes, I'm sure that's it. Anyone who lets their child read a book or watch a movie you disagree with is OBVIOUSLY a Neo-Nazi. :001_rolleyes: And you are one of the ones who always takes things the wrong way and to the opposite extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 And you are one of the ones who always takes things the wrong way and to the opposite extreme. Could you and Mergath take it outside please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Ester Maria left the boards; it was shortly after the big Circe thread/discussions as I remember. I am having trouble locating her farewell post, I think because it predates the newer board format. She was very educated, very opinionated, and had a view of Classical Education that stems from the European Classical tradition -- Classical Classical, that is, not neo-Classical. She was maddening, marvelous and she is sorely missed! Oh yes I remember her and I saved a bunch of posts from her re: Latin. I took a break from the boards at some point and I guess she left then. I had noticed she wasn't around but only now got a chance to ask why. Thanks for the info. I guess I missed the Circe thing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Could you and Mergath take it outside please? Oh .......... ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Maybe that explains why there are some people on here who have no issue with young children reading inappropriate (for their age) literature and watching movies they shouldn't. Yes, I'm sure Toni Morrison is at the top of every neo-Nazi's reading list! :smilielol5: Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 Oh .......... ok. :grouphug: I did appreciate the idea behind your comment -- that very different value systems may underlie members' different expectations & ideas about what is reasonable. Some of these differences can be easily bridged and understood, others not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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