Please tell me about epsom salt baths (kids)

[MunRoLy]

I know nothing about epsom salt baths except what I've read on here about epsom baths for relaxing/anxiety I think. I'm trying to fine natural ways to help ds8 with anxiety/OCD. Can epsom salt baths be used for children? Is it safe to use everyday? Is this something that would be helpful for a child dealing with anxiety/OCD?

 

I've recently drastically changed his diet (Feingold) because his behavior had been so out of control (agression, rudeness, impulsiveness, constant arguing, excess energy) and the OCD/anxiety symptoms cropped up around the same time. The diet is helping his behaviour tremendously and I'm hoping this will eventuall help with the anxiety/OCD, but in the meantime I would love some natural ways to help him.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes, it is safe for children.  You just mix it in with the bath water.  The only thing I would be careful about is that the epsom salt crystals can be kind of slippery if they aren't completely dissolved so make sure he is careful getting in, or put a rubber mat in the tub.  

[helena]

We use it for similar reasons. In addition to it being slippery, it can also make you poopy :tongue_smilie:, so you might want to watch how much you put in.

 

We have ours in a big pretty jar with a scoop. I try to make the whole bath area soothing for her so she knows it's a great place to go to relax. I do the same thing with her bed, I try to make it all cozy and say things to encourage (coach) the mentality of "AAAHHHH!!! Now you're in your cozy, comfy, happy, place. AAAHHHH!!!

 

You know, the power of suggestion and all that. :)

 

Try the baths! My anxiety, often worked up, kid (who has Tourette's) gets a lot of joy out of them.

Good luck!

[MunRoLy]

I'm very excited to try this with ds8. Sometimes when he's had a bad day he is so completely anxious at night that he can't get to sleep. He loves baths anyway and I have been wanting to have a more structured bedtime routine because he enjoys structure so this seems perfect. Thanks for your replies.

[NicAnn]

The kids version of the Natural Calm is pretty tasty. We use it with DD when we've had a busy time (we move a lot), and it seems to settle her down.

[dbmamaz]

my older son loved them when he was younger and would get stressed out.  he'll still sometimes take one if he cant sleep.  yeah, just throw some salts in the bath, really no big deal

[Laurie]

Epsom salt baths are great.   Even just a foot bath with epsom salts is relaxing.   You can also try magnesium sulfate cream.  (I order it from Kirkman Labs.)

[xixstar]

Sounds like a good plan to me. It's the magnesium which is supposed to be well absorbed in the skin, that offers the calming effect. A bath is a nice alternative or supplement to a child that might not want to take an oral supplement.

[MunRoLy]

Epsom salt baths are great. Even just a foot bath with epsom salts is relaxing. You can also try magnesium sulfate cream. (I order it from Kirkman Labs.)

I'm going to try the foot bath for myself tonight. :)

[MunRoLy]

double post

[MyLittleWonders]

We use them with the kids all the time, especially when they seem particularly "amped up" for whatever reason (frustration with a brother, grumpy mood, overly stressed/overwhelmed about something). Sometimes we put a drop or two of lavender oil in there too to make it feel that much more special. ;) They also like the Natural Calm magnesium (we just buy the regular formula as dh and I like it too). 

 

How long has he been on the Feingold diet? Sometimes some behaviors can be worse before they get better. I know when we started (and when we've messed up accidentally either with Feingold or gluten/dairy), it can take a month, at least, to really feel they are detoxed. But, the removal of the additives through Feingold might be uncovering something else that is food-related. I know there are a couple of us that are very sensitive to dairy; it causes anxiety issues (my youngest son is especially susceptible to this - talk about separation anxiety as a little guy). Gluten, also, is a culprit here for anxiety type feelings. So, you may be slowly peeling the layers of an onion with Feingold being the first layer (we did Feingold first, then added gluten free, and finally went dairy free). Just random, albeit unsolicited, thoughts. :)

[MunRoLy]

We use them with the kids all the time, especially when they seem particularly "amped up" for whatever reason (frustration with a brother, grumpy mood, overly stressed/overwhelmed about something). Sometimes we put a drop or two of lavender oil in there too to make it feel that much more special. ;) They also like the Natural Calm magnesium (we just buy the regular formula as dh and I like it too). 

 

How long has he been on the Feingold diet? Sometimes some behaviors can be worse before they get better. I know when we started (and when we've messed up accidentally either with Feingold or gluten/dairy), it can take a month, at least, to really feel they are detoxed. But, the removal of the additives through Feingold might be uncovering something else that is food-related. I know there are a couple of us that are very sensitive to dairy; it causes anxiety issues (my youngest son is especially susceptible to this - talk about separation anxiety as a little guy). Gluten, also, is a culprit here for anxiety type feelings. So, you may be slowly peeling the layers of an onion with Feingold being the first layer (we did Feingold first, then added gluten free, and finally went dairy free). Just random, albeit unsolicited, thoughts. :)

 

He's been off gluten for 7 weeks and it did get horribly worse for the first few days.  He's also been off food dyes and processed foods for that long.  Twice during that time he's ingested food dyes and had bad behavior for 5-7 days.  So I know he's sensitive to them.  I've only been doing Feingold for 3-4 days so I've cut out salicylates and food dyes in personal care products.  I'm hoping Feingold will really help me narrow down the foods that affect him whereas before I didn't have a systematic plan.  The difference in his behavior is like night and day.

[MunRoLy]

I had to post an update because I'm amazed!  I bought Epsom salt yesterday to try with ds8 and he did seem to fall asleep easier.  I'm going to use it with him a few nights a week.

 

I also thought I'd try a foot bath for myself before bed, and wow!  First of all I became very relaxed and sleepy.  I do also take timed Melatonin, but this was even better.  When I did settle down into bed I noticed that my feet and legs weren't aching!  I don't know how long they have ached in bed, but it's been a while and I never really thought about it much.  But it is very annoying and I always try to stretch them and move them around and it's hard to settle down.  Last night I had no problems with that!  I almost couldn't believe how nice my feet/legs felt.  And if that wasn't miraculous enough, I only woke once in the night to use the bathroom.  This is from someone who for years has been waking up 2, usually 3 times every night.  I can't remember a time when I only woke once.

 

So this will definitely be a nightly ritual for me. 

[walkermamaof4]

We buy this from saltworks online:

Ultra Epsom® Salt - 50lb. Bag (fine)
 

 

We've also found the supplements from Dianne Craft's Biology of Behavior help too. These are my evernotes on adhd, which is a bit different, but contains the Biology of Behavior notes:

 

 

krill oil 100-400mg mg per day. http://ezinearticles.com/?The-One-ADD-Supplement-That-May-Improve-Inattentive-Cognitive-Functioning&id=5518119

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/5518119 

 

http://www.remedyspot.com/showthread.php/698416-RE-Focus-in-School-What-to-do-Here-are-Diane-Craft-Notes

 

Diane Craft

Biology of Behavior

Exploring the Physical Causes of

Behavior and Attention Problems in Children

 

Dianecraft.org

 

This is Diane Craft’s tape series. She gives the latest brain and

nutritional research plus a proven step-by-step program of natural

supplements designed to help your child’s body heal, and have ample supply

of the important calming neurotransmitters available. You will learn of

“natural medicines†you can discuss with your doctor, that are free of side

effects that accompany many prescription medications.

Notes from her lecture on tape…

* 80% of these kids had -mult infections/antibiotic use

* 99% have allergies

* If it’s mental, it’s physical.

* Dr. Crook—Help for Your Hyperactive Child--hyperactive

child book—replacing bacteria in stomach

* Dr. Leo Gallend—pediatrician—Super Immunity for Kids (need this

book to do the 8 week protocol for dosages)

* Neurotransmitters are made in the gut so that can affect behavior

* Keep colonies of yeast down to a good amount

* 300% increase of Ritalin over last 3 years

 

I. Biological or Psychological

* Jay Lombard—The Brain Wellness Plan

* Serotonin—recirculated by antidepressants (Ritalin, prozac, etc.)

* Body can make serotonin

* Fat in milk—good

* 50% didn’t crawl

* over 80%--mult. Infections

* 99-100%--allergies—uncontrolled reactions to common good things;

immune system has gone array

* emphasis—building immune system rather than pulling away foods

* repeated antibiotic use causes and irritated neurological system

II. Common characteristics of kids with upset body chemistry

* Trauma reduces serotonin in body

* Fat is just as satisfying as sugar—so try to find some substitutes

that are satisfying—nuts, seeds, tuna, mayonnaise, beef jerky—try to keep a

balance

* Brain is a mirror of the gut

* Will see subtle changes within 1st week—look for subtle changes

* It takes about 3 mos. to change a child’s body chemistry

* Will be adding other things—i.e. antifungal preparations, oils

* Take it yourself and add something different/new the next week and

continue with the previous

* Acidophilus sweetens the stomach & makes it feel very good

* Don’t try to cut back on sugar until after the 2nd week b/c they’ll

fight you on it b/c it’s a craving

4/18/05

Changes in…

* Inappropriate behavior

* Loudness

* getting in people’s faces

* disperceptions—overreaction to regular things

* mood swings

* attention problems, memory

* can be used with medications—in fact helps with absorption rate

* anemia, diabetic, lead

* kids will act how they feel

Biological Characteristics

* Sleep problems

* Stomach aches; indigestion

* Bloating; gas

* Canker sores—same lining in stomach as in the mouth

* Eczema; rashes; dry, itchy skin

* Thrush, athlete’s foot, canker sores, vaginal infections, warts—all

outward symptoms of yeast overgrowth in stomach

* Allergies (esp. to molds—penicillin, amoxicillin, etc.), food

allergies, environmental allergies

* Leg pains

* Constipation; enuresis (bedwetting)

* Sugar cravings—real cravings where they take sugar and hide it to

eat it

* Trying to heal mucosal lining of stomach

Behavioral Characteristics

* Angry, Aggressive

* Irritable “touchyâ€

* Inappropriate Behavior

* Mood Swings

* Temper Tantrums

* Attentions Problems

* Depression

* Hyperactivity

* Restless, Nervous

III. Nutritional Intervention

How to…

* Outlined in Leo Galland’s Superimmunity for Kids

* Go week by week and keep a journal

* Go at it slowly

Discuss this plan with your Doctor 1st

You add onto the existing plan each week, so by week 8, the child is on all

of the supplements. Stay on all of it for 3 months and then remove each

item, one at a time as they were added.

Week 1: Acidophilus—Refrigerated Kind

* Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner

* Primadophilus Junior by Nature’s Way. Parent’s report this is the

best

* Watch for Herxheimer effect—as yeast is dying off, it will put off

toxins and have a “flu†like effect—if this happens, cut back on amount

This is the good bacteria that needs to be in the child’s gut in order to be

healthy. It is wiped out by antibiotics and steroids. Only buy a

refrigerated brand. It can be put in cold drinks.

Week 2: Grapefruit Seed Extract, (NOT Grape Seed) Anti-fungal agent

* Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner Each grapefruit seed antifungal tablet contains 125 mg GSE. In combination with Primadophilus Original, this antifungal helps rebalance a child's intestinal flora.  This is the second important step in the Biology of Behavior 3 month nutritional (gut ecology) program.  If a child cannot swallow tablets, then order Paramicrocidin, which is a tasteless grapefruit seed extract in capsule form.  The Paramicrocidin capsul can easily be opened and mixed with food for children experiencing difficulty swallowing capsules.  Never use the grapefruit seed extract liquid internally, no matter what information to the contrary you are given.

Nutribiotic Grapefruit Seed Extract 100 tablets

 

* DianeCraft.org has this for sale

* Oil or capsules

* Oil—2-3 drops 3x/day (follow directions on package)

* Put in Welch’s Grape Juice—strong enough to mask taste

* Could use Caprylic acid instead of grapefruit seed extract—another

antifungal agent—2-3x/day—

If you child has symptoms of yeast, it would be worthwhile to give this. It

is taken 3x a day, with the Acidophilus.

Week 3: Reduce sugar & carbohydrates

 

* Increase protein especially at breakfast and snacks

* Breakfast—eggs, protein shakes, smoothies with protein powder,

butter, meats,

* Excess sugar causes irritability

Week 4: Mineral Rich (has more Magnesium and Calcium, Cherry flavor)

1Tsp a day until loose stool. 1 oz of Mineral Rich contains: 100mcg Vitamin B12, 200mcg Biotin, 25mg Calcium, 100mg Magnesium, 10mg Zinc, 50mcg Selenium, 5mg Manganese, 50mcg Chromium,10mg Potassium, 1000mcg Silica. NOTE: This product cannot be returned for a refund.

Mineral Rich 32 oz

 

* Check SuperImmunity for Kids for dosage. Book for sale on Amazon

* Magnesium—in citrate form or asporatate form

* Magnesium is “Nature’s Tranquilizerâ€

* If not taking lots of calcium, get a magnesium with calcium—unless

they’re battling constipation—then no calcium

* Takes about a year to build up magnesium

* Too much magnesium can cause diarrhea

* Can go in a smoothie; doesn’t have a taste

* Check fingernails for white spots before starting—is a sign of zinc

deficiency

* Zinc runs 200 enzyme systems in body

* Hair, blood, saliva—test everything

* Check health food store for zinc

* Can add zinc, calcium, and magnesium in one week

* When no more white spots, you can stop the zinc

* Mental & Elemental Nutrients by Phifer talks about zinc

Week 5: 100 mg. of B Complex Vitamin, YEAST FREE. 

Natures Way B 50 Complex 100 capsules-1/day

 

* “Calming vitaminsâ€

* Alan Gavy—B6: The Natural Healer—found that B6 is in serotonin

loop in brain (compared with taking Ritalin)

Week 6: EFA 500mg of DHA (Fish Oil); 130 mg Evening Prim Rose; 1-200

Vitamin E

Choose from…

1. Efalex Focus by Nature’s Way—combines Dr. Stordy’s whole recipe into

one capsule—take 8 capsules/day for kids over 6 .This is Dr. Jacqueline Stordy's formulation made from her famous study of children with attention, dyslexia or hyperactivity issues. Get all three oils in one capsule (DHA, Primrose, and Vitamin E). The directions (and her research) say that children 4-6 can take 4 a day, while older kids and adults can take 8 small softgels a day. NOTE: This product cannot be returned for a refund.

EFA Blend for Children (Formerly Attention Focus)

 

2. Or Coromega (pudding) Fish Oil, Vit E, and Borage Oil for younger

children

3. Or do Dr. Stordy’s recipe

o 500 mg DHA (fish oil) daily

o 1000 mg of evening primrose oil—Efamol brand from England or can

interchange it with borage oil-ALLERGY RESEARCH GROUP 120 soft gels Evening Primrose Oil and Borage oil are basically the same. The Borage oil softgels are a better bargain because they contain 30% more of the all important oil GLA than the Primrose Oil. However, the Borage Oil softgels are twice the size of the Primrose Oil Softgels. The Primrose are about the size of a Vit E softgel. When choosing which of these oils to buy, you will need to take into consideration your child's swallowing ability/preference. Each softgel contains 500mg Evening Primrose Oil, including 45mg of GLA. This is one of the three essential fatty acids in Dr Jacqueline Stordy's formula for children's learning and attention. NOTE: This product cannot be returned for a refund.

o 200 i.u. vitamin E

* change chemistry of body—powerful stuff

* society that is deficient in serotonin

* essential fatty acids change to serotonin—come from fish, flax

seed, and butter, nuts & seeds, whole grains

* Beyond Prozac— Nordin—uses essential fatty acids to build

serotonin

* Signs of lack of essential fatty acids: Dry hair, cow lick, dry

skin, bumps on back of arms, chapped lips

* Need to change gut flora first to build good bacteria

* Boys have 3x higher need for essential fatty acids than girls

* Corpus collosum, vestibular system, myelin sheath—all made of fat

* Brain is made 60% of fat—30% is DHA—made only from fish oil and

mother’s milk

* Kids will crave fat

* Left hemisphere—judgment, right brain—emotional—when corpus

collosum is deficient, kids can’t cross over hemispheres effectively

* Impulsivity, hyperactivity, anxiety, sleep problems—kids have lower

amounts of omega 3

* Omega 3 oils lift depression, reduce effects of FAS

* Lecithin (another fat) also calms mania

* Stordy, Dr. 1998 England study—2 groups of

students—dyslexia, dyspraxia, or ADHD—placebo vs. fish oil, vitamin E, and

primrose oil—found remarkable difference—published in Lancet—can be drawn up

on internet—found connection with these problems and lack of essential fatty

acids

* Symptoms of essential fatty acid deficiency vs. yeast

overgrowth—very thirsty, dry hair, dry skin, warts, chapped lips, glare

sensitivity—don’t like bright lights,

* Vitamin A, D, E, & K—D comes from sunshine, K comes from parsley

o Can be taken at same time—gelatin capsule

o Alternative product: Learning Factors (Natural Factors)—cheaper b/c

it’s generic

o Max DHA—2 capsules

o Evening primrose oil—Efamol brand—2 capsules (500 mg each)

o Vitamin E—200 i.u.

o Young child—can open with pin and squeeze them or get liquid cod

liver oil; add vitamin E to it—check in SuperImmunity for dosage

Twin Labs Cod Liver Oil (Emulsified, Orange Flavored)

 

 

o Be careful with vitamin A—can get toxic

o Can rub primrose oil on wrist—one capsule for infant

 

Week 7: Lecithin, 1 Tablespoon a day “The Mother of all good fatsâ€

Refrigerated portion of health food store or vacuum sealed can (2T. for

adults)-Lecithin granules are sold in bulk form in plastic bags or in cans. Be sure to read the labels. My experience has been that, although the granules sold in the plastic bags are less expensive, they also contain far less of the important ingredient phosphatidylcholine. Some brand names that have a high content of phosphatidylcholine are Carlson, Lewis Labs, and BioSan.

* You can bake this into mini muffins and freeze them.

* Emulsifies fat, lowers cholesterol

* Component of myelin sheath

* Helps us digest & utilize oils

* Helps balance, coordination, auditory processing, calms nervous

system

* In Dr. Feingold’s work, too

* goes well with fatty foods—p. butter, mayonnaise, yogurt, choc.

Pudding, shake

* soy product

* will see results in one week

Week 8: Pycnogenol (pick-noj-in-ole), 1 mg per pound of weight. 

Pycnogenol 180 tablets (Maritime Pine Plus)

Helps focusing tremendously…it’s the ‘clean up committee

* Will help if child has a lot of allergies

* It’s a bioflavinoid—comes from grapeseed extract

* It’s an antioxidant, antihistamine, and anti-inflammatory

* can buy in a bottle

* will see results in one week

 

Other helpful things: Possible Week 9

* Liquid Trace Minerals—copper, lithium, etc.—Concentrase—brand—can be

very calming—SPD stuff—jump at sound, labels bother them

A. Natural Medicines—cannot be taken with psychotropic medicines—b/c

they will immediately boost serotonin in brain

1. 5HTP, 2 mg per pound of weight from Nature’s Way or Futurebiotics

at Healthfood stores

for aggressive kids—big behavior problems

* could do it right at the beginning or wait until the end if child

needs a little something more

* 5 Hydroxy Triptophan—Dr. Murray—5HTP

* B3 & B6 convert to triptophan (from turkey & milk) and triptophan

converts to serotonin

* Dr. Atkins—don’t take if asthma is present— read VitaNutrient Solution

* Used to reduce aggression, ADHD, OCD, Touters

* 2. Lithium Orotate, 5mg of Elemental Lithium…Don’t take this if on

5HTP

Natural mineral found in our soil. The supplement contains only a trace

amount. The calming mineral.

* Natural salt in body

* Dr. Carlton Fredericks—Psychonutition

* Essential trace mineral—can be found in health food stores

* Lithium is a transporter of minerals

* Helps with kids with high yeast overgrowth

* Talk to Dr. first!

* 5 mg capsules—no more than 3/day

* prescribed amount is 500 mg

* don’t give with 5HTP

* brand: Atrium in health food store—if they don’t have it, ask them

to order it

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?A-5-Dollar-a-Month,-Well-Researched-and-Proven-Effective-Herbal-Supplement-for-Inattentive-ADHD&id=5426003

 

 

[wapiti]

nm 

 

[kbutton]

I got on here to read about this because I think our family has low levels of magnesium, but with all the talk, I thought I would throw this information out there...have any of you heard of PANS or PANDAS? For some folks, this is the underlying cause of OCD. Since people mentioned Dianne Craft, I assume some of you are open to biological/metabolic information. A family we know IRL is dealing with this. Basically exposure to strep (or in some cases another infection--but it would be called something other than PANDAS, I think) causes a person's body to attack the brainstem, and the main symptom is OCD. You don't have to show signs of a strep infection or have ever been diagnosed with strep to have this happen. Some people make antibodies even if they are never symptomatic. It can cause ongoing problems and exacerbations anytime a person with PANDAS is exposed to strep later. I don't know tons about it, but I thought it might give you all another idea about how to cope with OCD. There are also some podcasts and archived radio programs on the Coffee Klatch Radio network that talk about PANDAS.