Questions for Ambleside Online (AO) users

[daniela_r]

This is my first poll, so I'm sure I messed up somewhere!  Please critique gently!  :001_smile:

[daniela_r]

FYI:

- I do not use AO.

- I have never read TCoO.

- My oldest is 5 so we haven't done US history.

- I was just curious after reading the recent threads about AO, so I decided to work up my courage and try my first poll!

[liber]

I don't use TCoO as I am Canadian.  But I do use my First Story of Canada or The Story of Canada.  Both books are not the edited and updated version so they do use the polictically incorrect terms for FN.  Not sure how the portrayal compares to TCoO.  I read everything as is and talk about as needed.

[Crimson Wife]

I answered the last question for how I use older non-politically correct materials in general, even though I do not use TCoO. If it's a read-aloud, I will often substitute language or just skip over problematic sections entirely. If I cannot easily edit, then we will discuss how the language reflected the author's less-enlightened times.

 

For independent reading we discuss the problematic language.

 

I use some of AO's recommendations but a lot of their recommended materials are anti-Catholic so we tend not to use those.

[Mandy in TN]

I have not opened the other thread about vintage books (there have been previous vintage book threads), so I am sure it has been addressed that there are other CM products out there. Because it is free, AO is a nice place to start looking at what a CM curriculum expects of a student and how those expectations build over the years. The site also has CM's writings and a modern version of her writings that can be read and/ or perused to help develop your own philosophy. Additionally, the site has schedules for artists and composers with suggested pieces, and this can be used with any curriculum not just AO or CM.

 

I have used AO primarily for the CM writings, the free online poetry for the lower grades (I think it is year 1 that has the free poems organized by month that is fabulous for little people.), and to look for artist and composer suggestions. I have used bit and pieces of other things over the years.

 

Because I don't really use AO, I didn't vote in the poll. I just wanted to give a positive shout-out for the people at AO who put together that whole website, who attempted to find free books for all grades and wrote schedules for them, who suggested artists and composers, and who put it all out there free of charge. Free books are typically vintage, and vintage books reflect the culture of the time during which they were written. This in no way negates the fact that AO is a valuable website as a scope and sequence for a CM student or that it was an enormous undertaking to create.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Farrar]

Not an AO user, but I think it was well-worded and I'm curious too. :)

[thewaka]

I used AO our first few years, but a couple of years ago I decided I wanted a history spine that was written much more recently, partly b/c of the problems with TCOO. We have been using SOTW and, now that I have 9th graders, HotAW.

 

We didn't finish TCOO. I didn't enjoy the writing in it and OIS, so we made do with other things. So now I use AO for lit, art and composer. I still incorporate CM style narrations, but otherwise am moving more towards WTM methods.

[GoVanGogh]

I voted.

We used AO in conjunction with LCC up until this summer. I used AO lists for literature, art, poetry, music and nature studies. I never looked at their history selections as we like the Famous Men series from Memoria Press and Story of the World.

 

Somewhat related to the original thread regarding AO: The reason I have dropped AO is because, as the mother of a child with a brain injury, I do not approve of their use of Charlotte's quote about "backward children." I understand that was the typical thinking in Charlotte's time, but I do not feel AO should use it in this century.

 

http://www.amblesideonline.org/SpecialNeeds.shtml

CM says on page 9 of volume 6, "The appeal is not to the clever child only, but to the average and even to the 'backward' child."

[maize]

I have read parts of TCoO, I would not use it to teach my children. The fact that it presents an extremely biased and inaccurate picture of the founding and early years of the LDS church was enough to convince me it was not a trustworthy source of history.

[Mandy in TN]

http://www.amblesideonline.org/SpecialNeeds.shtml

CM says on page 9 of volume 6, "The appeal is not to the clever child only, but to the average and even to the 'backward' child."

The link posted was to a page titled "Using Ambleside Online with a Special Needs Child." The woman writing the information quotes the phrase and she also tells a brief story of her own child. The title of the page does not use this terminology. FWIW- the terminology used when I was a child would have been mentally handicapped and when my mother was younger it would have been retarded. The terminology used to label people with learning differences and challenges is much more specific now than it was when CM was writing or even when I was a child. However, I bet the terminology that we use now will no longer be appropriate in 25 years.

 

Sure, we could now rewrite those words to read: Charlotte Mason education does not only work well with the gifted child, but also with the neuro-typical child and the child with learning differences and/ or disabilities. Actually, the AO website's modern translation of this quote reads, "This education doesn't just work for unusually smart children. It works for average and handicapped children, too." The fact of the matter is that CM used the terminology of her time. She was not trying to be offensive. She was trying to be inclusive and if we rewrote it in language that today sounds inclusive 25 years from now (and probably a heck of a lot sooner) it will again sound offensive.

 

Quoting CM directly rather than paraphrasing her words by a mother who uses CM and had a child with challenges hardly seems offensive. It's not the title used on the AO website. As a mother of a son with ADD and dyslexia who required both speech therapy and occupational therapy, I am in no way offended by CM's attempt at being inclusive using the terminology available in her time nor am I offended that someone quoted her.

 

Just another way of viewing that quote. If that was the obstacle that came between you and a product that was working for your child, I HTH-

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

Double post

[GoVanGogh]

The link posted was to a page titled "Using Ambleside Online with a Special Needs Child." The woman writing the information quotes the phrase and she also tells a brief story of her own child. The title of the page does not use this terminology. FWIW- the terminology used when I was a child would have been mentally handicapped and when my mother was younger it would have been retarded. The terminology used to label people with learning differences and challenges is much more specific now than it was when CM was writing or even when I was a child. However, I bet the terminology that we use now will no longer be appropriate in 25 years.

 

Sure, we could now rewrite those words to read: Charlotte Mason education does not only work well with the gifted child, but also with the neuro-typical child and the child with learning differences and/ or disabilities. Actually, the AO website's modern translation of this quote reads, "This education doesn't just work for unusually smart children. It works for average and handicapped children, too." The fact of the matter is that CM used the terminology of her time. She was not trying to be offensive. She was trying to be inclusive and if we rewrote it in language that today sounds inclusive 25 years from now (and probably a heck of a lot sooner) it will again sound offensive.

 

Quoting CM directly rather than paraphrasing her words by a mother who uses CM and had a child with challenges hardly seems offensive. It's not the title used on the AO website. As a mother of a son with ADD and dyslexia who required both speech therapy and occupational therapy, I am in no way offended by CM's attempt at being inclusive using the terminology available in her time nor am I offended that someone quoted her.

 

Just another way of viewing that quote. If that was the obstacle that came between you and a product that was working for your child, I HTH-

Mandy

If I was further into processing my child's disability (c.palsy), I could probably understand and come to terms with what you wrote.

But I had used AO for years and was specifically looking for advice for homeschooling a child with special needs and - that quote is just so jarring.

Yes, I have read the rest of the page. It really didn't offer much usable advice for me, though all brain injuries are so unique that it has been hard to find anything applicable.

Maybe if the quote didn't stand out on the page the way it does. I just find it highly offensive. I know it was the acceptable term in those days. It isn't today, though, so shouldn't be used, IMO.

 

[Hunter]

I'm using Our Island Story and plan to use This Country of Ours. I have the Yesterday's Classics eBooks and the Alcazar audios.

 

The books and audios are more for me, than the students. I prepare with them. Then I will share with the students what I think is fit for them. And that will be different for different students.

 

Right now I prefer to use cheap and free public domain resources for my iPad Mini whenever possible. They are TOOLS that I use as seems appropriate. All tools need to be used with caution and discernement.

 

Also because public domain resources are available to EVERYONE, strong international online communities can build up around them, that cannot build up around more expensive resources that are only available in the USA. There is a ton of support for this book, and it's free. That is no small thing for some families.

[FO4UR]

I voted.  I use most of AO, but not TCOO.

 

 

Even though I do this, I will caution.  When you mess with the booklist, you are messing the The Science of Relations. It's OK to do this, you are the teacher.  CM is not a booklist, but a manner of teaching. That said, AO is a pre-listed CM education...and you have to understand the CM manner of teaching before creating (or re-creating) a CM booklist. 

 

 

Personally, I use SOTW.  AO uses SOTW book 4, and at that point I plan on using AO un-tweaked. 

[Hunter]

I voted.  I use most of AO, but not TCOO.

 

 

Even though I do this, I will caution.  When you mess with the booklist, you are messing the The Science of Relations. It's OK to do this, you are the teacher.  CM is not a booklist, but a manner of teaching. That said, AO is a pre-listed CM education...and you have to understand the CM manner of teaching before creating (or re-creating) a CM booklist. 

 

 

Personally, I use SOTW.  AO uses SOTW book 4, and at that point I plan on using AO un-tweaked. 

 

Yes, the AO booklists look a LOT easier to tweak than they are. Until you understand more about CM and about AO, you don't understand how difficult it is to tweak the lists.

[teeniebeenie6]

I don't use TCoO as I am Canadian.  But I do use my First Story of Canada or The Story of Canada.  Both books are not the edited and updated version so they do use the polictically incorrect terms for FN.  Not sure how the portrayal compares to TCoO.  I read everything as is and talk about as needed.

Do you have a link to this book? I am very interested in it. I am a Canadian living in the US. I am hoping to add more Canadian history to my kids, but resources seem scarce. Thanks!

[liber]

Do you have a link to this book? I am very interested in it. I am a Canadian living in the US. I am hoping to add more Canadian history to my kids, but resources seem scarce. Thanks!

No link because I'm not sure if these are online. I bought these books years ago and brought them with me when I moved to the US. If you go to the Ambleside Online forum there is a sub forum for International users of AO and under there a forum for Canada. I just had a quick look around and there are some threads with links to Canadian resources. My First History of Canada is by Donalda Dickie, if that helps.

[daniela_r]

Thanks to everyone who responded!!

 

Here are some take-aways for me (using the statistics of who has responded so far): 

 

1) Only a minority of AO users are following the booklists, even somewhat (only 17 out of 37 said they were following the booklists somewhat or closely).

 

2) About two-thirds of AO users are not using TCoO (25 out of 37, or 68%).

 

3) No-one responded, "I don't think TCoO's handling of racial issues is a big deal really", and no-one responded, "I mostly agree with how TCoO presents non-whites."

 

Thanks again!!