4th grade math woes

[Dory]

My oldest this year has really been struggling with math. Although I'm not sure why or what he is struggling with. Nothing in particular seems to be the problem. It was taking him an hour a page to get through his MM4, and there was a lot of tears shed. I was starting to see some nervous ticks come back that I hadn't seen since grade one when he was in ps. So, I pulled him back to MM3. Not doing every page, just a general overview to see where he was struggling/what we missed, and work from there. Then he was finishing both pages up in 15min and writing all his answers in roman numerals (so annoying to score but I'm not sure I can mark that as wrong). We flew through all the grade 3 reviews no problem so went back to grade 4 and we are back to the super slow work again. He's getting the answers right with just the odd one wrong and usually that is just from being sloppy. Conceptually he seems to understand what he is doing. I'm at a loss as to what to do with him. In the meantime, his sister is only half a book behind him now and I'm wondering what that will do if she passes him. I'm thinking that my sleep deprived brain is just not thinking things through well here, thought I'd look for suggestions from you ladies.

[sbgrace]

I have a child who is struggling in 4th grade math too. Math has always been his weakest subject, but 4th grade has seemed like a huge jump in something I can't place. We flailed in Math Mammoth, even though his Math Mammoth placement tests indicated no  issues in the 3rd grade concepts.

 

I attributed it to Math Mammoth's approach and switched back to our Math in Focus. Well, it's been rough too! I keep pulling out the 3rd grade Math In Focus books to see if there is are any retention holes and am finding nothing. Anyway, I've got no answers but the 4th grade is rough here too. My very math adept child is doing fine, but he did tell me that 4th grade seemed more challenging than 3rd.

[Critterfixer]

Two fourth graders in Saxon. And yes, they are having a time with it, too.

 

I think I'm beginning to determine why, because I'm seeing one child struggling with Latin as well. They are moving into problems that require them to use what they know and figure out what they don't know, all in one step. In Latin, they are moving from vocabulary and grammar memorization into basic translation. Talk about shifting without a clutch. So the child who is struggling has his back up and his tail bushed and "Hates, hates, hates Latin, Mom!" Yeah. It's as if they have been happily cycling on level ground and down a few hills and now we have to go up a few.

 

In Math it is the same thing. A problem will have two to three steps now, and usually a step will be recalling a fact, and then applying it to the problem at hand, then applying the next recalled step and applying it. Biking up hills. And so I see hackles up and tails bushed at Math time too. "We hate, hate, hate Math!"

 

Anyhoo, that's my two cents on it.

 

I'm just trying to be patient, and to give more practice and time where needed. (Of course, walking up hills isn't much fun either...)

[Dory]

Thanks, good to know my fella isn't the only one that is struggling with it. I'll try and just keep plugging along. Unfortunately it means that we really don't get a lot done. I'll have to keep the subject list down to the bare bones.

[ThisIsTheDay]

No words of wisdom, but I wanted to say that we had several teary seasons in math over the years, both dd's tears and mine.  During a couple of those, I made the decision to switch curriculum, which ultimately resulted in my daughter doing eight years of elementary math in six, lol.  Looking back, I probably should have stuck it out.

 

Can you try to build up other math skills while you're slowly plugging along for now?  Maybe by playing games? Almost anything will help build logic and strategy skills.  How about using "living books" to help reinforce/teach math concepts?  You can find many titles at www.livingmath.com that should be available at your library.  I'm not familiar with MM; have you tried using manipulatives to explain the concepts?  My ds never "got" long division.  He could do  short division both on paper and in his head effortlessly, even with multiple digits. He just didn't realize how the long division on paper matched up to what was in his brain. I finally gave up.  He learned it in 8th grade when the numbers got really long. And he's always been a great math.

 

I love how your ds was writing his answers in Roman numerals!! LOL!

 

 

[Dory]

No words of wisdom, but I wanted to say that we had several teary seasons in math over the years, both dd's tears and mine.  During a couple of those, I made the decision to switch curriculum, which ultimately resulted in my daughter doing eight years of elementary math in six, lol.  Looking back, I probably should have stuck it out.

 

Can you try to build up other math skills while you're slowly plugging along for now?  Maybe by playing games? Almost anything will help build logic and strategy skills.  How about using "living books" to help reinforce/teach math concepts?  You can find many titles at www.livingmath.com that should be available at your library.  I'm not familiar with MM; have you tried using manipulatives to explain the concepts?  My ds never "got" long division.  He could do  short division both on paper and in his head effortlessly, even with multiple digits. He just didn't realize how the long division on paper matched up to what was in his brain. I finally gave up.  He learned it in 8th grade when the numbers got really long. And he's always been a great math.

 

I love how your ds was writing his answers in Roman numerals!! LOL!

 

Thank you for the thoughts. We already do LOF once a week, but I ordered a few other living books today for him to try out. That link there was a good reminder. I always use manipulatives with him when he is learning a new concept, perhaps I need to bring them into the reviews now and then. He has CAPD so I try to come at things from a variety of ways. I'll bring in some more games while we are pushing through.

[scrapbookbuzz]

As I was reading this, trying to figure out what to do math-wise for my own 9yo, I was reminded of when my daughter was in 4th grade. Someone then (6 years ago) told me that it's a big jump from 3rd to 4th grade, mainly because it's not just absorbing information anymore, it now involves application. Different mental process. Perhaps we should all remind ourselves that it's okay to slow down if necessary. what is more important to us: that they truly, fully understand the material or that they finish 'on time'?

[Alicia64]

When my boys were in the third grade and struggling a friend told me about Teaching Textbooks. I highly recommend it. It's computer based and has a teacher involved. It's a great program.

 

I also used Xtramath that you can find on the internet -- it's free. http://xtramath.org/

 

But thet really love this for learning their math facts:  http://www.arcademicskillbuilders.com/

 

Good luck!

 

Alley

[Dory]

As I was reading this, trying to figure out what to do math-wise for my own 9yo, I was reminded of when my daughter was in 4th grade. Someone then (6 years ago) told me that it's a big jump from 3rd to 4th grade, mainly because it's not just absorbing information anymore, it now involves application. Different mental process. Perhaps we should all remind ourselves that it's okay to slow down if necessary. what is more important to us: that they truly, fully understand the material or that they finish 'on time'?

 

Thank you for the reminder. I do tend to get a little overly focused on the finish line and sometimes push too hard through the process.

[Dory]

When my boys were in the third grade and struggling a friend told me about Teaching Textbooks. I highly recommend it. It's computer based and has a teacher involved. It's a great program.

 

I also used Xtramath that you can find on the internet -- it's free. http://xtramath.org/

 

But thet really love this for learning their math facts:  http://www.arcademicskillbuilders.com/

 

Good luck!

 

Alley

 

Thanks for the links! I'll definitely check those out tomorrow.

[thebacabunch]

4th grade was the beginning of math drama here too.  Poor kiddo!  I started giving my dd candy and corn chips to munch on during math with lots of breaks.  I started rewarding her for a positive attitude (she was getting so frustrated that tears, tantrums, book throwing, pencil breaking behaviors were common).  I am enjoying my 3rd grader this year because next year is THE year when math gets really hard.  Hang in there mama.  You aren't alone!

[sarawatsonim]

My dd8 is in 4th too and math has always been a struggle for her. She daily does her facts on Xtramath and we switched to MEP this year. We went back a few levels in MEP to go over it everything again in hopes of helping her ease back into grade level over a period of time. Slowing down has seemed to help a lot here. 

[scrapbookbuzz]

Personally, I tried Teaching Textbooks when ds was beginning 3rd grade. He didn't like it but I don't think it had anything to do with the curriculum. His

love language is so obviously quality time that he would just rather not do anything on his own, except sometimes read. He would much rather have me

interact with him on everything.

 

We're going to visit some homeschooling friends on Monday, to join them in math. They use Math-U-See and I want to see how my son reacts to it.

[wapiti]

My oldest this year has really been struggling with math. Although I'm not sure why or what he is struggling with. Nothing in particular seems to be the problem. It was taking him an hour a page to get through his MM4, and there was a lot of tears shed. I was starting to see some nervous ticks come back that I hadn't seen since grade one when he was in ps. So, I pulled him back to MM3. Not doing every page, just a general overview to see where he was struggling/what we missed, and work from there. Then he was finishing both pages up in 15min and writing all his answers in roman numerals (so annoying to score but I'm not sure I can mark that as wrong). We flew through all the grade 3 reviews no problem so went back to grade 4 and we are back to the super slow work again. He's getting the answers right with just the odd one wrong and usually that is just from being sloppy. Conceptually he seems to understand what he is doing. I'm at a loss as to what to do with him. In the meantime, his sister is only half a book behind him now and I'm wondering what that will do if she passes him. I'm thinking that my sleep deprived brain is just not thinking things through well here, thought I'd look for suggestions from you ladies.

 

Are you still in Chapter 1 of MM4 ?  That can be really challenging, especially the bar model approach to word problems and order of operations.  Take your time - don't be afraid to go slow where necessary - the time spent will be worth it.  Try to use MM's flexibility to your advantage to get rid of those tears.  On pages with many problems, you might assign only a portion (e.g., two-thirds), leaving the rest for the next day or some other review day.  (I'm not hs-ing this year, but if I was, seeing how easily my kids forget stuff, I might institute a weekly or bi-weekly review day called "Finish-it-up Fridays" when some of the remaining problems from earlier in the week are completed).  If you think he may be resisting because it's boring, I might mix things up a bit in that way, assigning fewer problems per page but going back later for some of them.  Some people assign fewer problems and then only assign the others if their student gets problems wrong.  Additionally, I might add in something more fun to lighten the math mood.  (eta, FWIW, my kids' charter school started using MM last year and had a rough start with the fourth graders in the beginning - slow slog - but their efforts were rewarded by the end of the school year.)