Math help!! How to find out what she knows and what she doesn't!

[4maybabies]

Ok...were struggling here in math with my 4th grade daughter. Honestly, I just don't know where to begin. We've been jumping from program to program hoping it's going to 'fix' whatever issues we have...however, that is just not going to happen. At this point I don't know what she knows and what she doesn't. She's more than halfway through TT4, yet, I really don't think she has a thorough understanding of the topics she's covered. My question is, how can I find out where she really is in math? I'm hoping there is something out there that will guide me to help find out what she knows...and then I'll be able to level her out with what she doesn't have a good grasp on. Boy oh boy...I don't even know what I'm looking for...a test?? some sort of 4th grade standard to go off of??? Help. Please.

[shinyhappypeople]

I could have posted this.  My 10 yo DD is in the same boat.  I'll be following this thread with interest!

[AK_Mom4]

When I was trying to find out where DD12 stood, I used the Saxon placement tests.  You can find them online here:

http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/en/resources/result.htm?title=Placement

 

Pay no attention to the grade placement since you are using TT, the scope might be different.  Just check which problems she gets wrong as those will tell you what topics are still a bit fuzzy in her brain.

 

BTW - how is she doing with TT?  Missing lots of problems or needing lots of help?  If she is doing ok, I would just have her keep plugging along.  Some times the ideas take a while to gel.

 

ETA - sometimes it is helpful to add some extra practice to TT if the ideas don't seem to be settling in.  This site http://www.hoodamath.com/index.html was one of DD's favorites for practicing math and there are other sites out there where you can make and print extra worksheets on various topics.  HTH

[susankhan]

Try mobymax.com  it if free for homeschoolers and the school code is mc147

 

susan khan

[CupOCoffee]

There's also a placement test on Khan Academy, but you would have to set up an account there.  We've used Khan on and off for several years.  The placement test is new, and I think it could be a great tool.

 

~coffee~

[Ellie]

Ok...were struggling here in math with my 4th grade daughter. Honestly, I just don't know where to begin. We've been jumping from program to program hoping it's going to 'fix' whatever issues we have...however, that is just not going to happen. At this point I don't know what she knows and what she doesn't. She's more than halfway through TT4, yet, I really don't think she has a thorough understanding of the topics she's covered. My question is, how can I find out where she really is in math? I'm hoping there is something out there that will guide me to help find out what she knows...and then I'll be able to level her out with what she doesn't have a good grasp on. Boy oh boy...I don't even know what I'm looking for...a test?? some sort of 4th grade standard to go off of??? Help. Please.

 

Is she getting good grades with TT? I mean, what is it she "struggles" with?

 

Part of your problem is jumping from publisher to publisher. With something like math, IMHO it's important to pick one and stick with it. There may be an adjustment period, but if you stick with it, usually things work out.

 

Every publisher has a different scope and sequence. Placement tests are keyed to that particular publisher. And if you do some sort of test, then try to find a publisher that might fix the problem, you may end up a crazy person, lol.

[MomatHWTK]

You could find 4th grade materials online and have her take the chapter quizzes, or purchase a 4th grade workbook (the ones that accompany textbooks) and work through it together to see what she knows. 

 

Here's an online resource- scroll down for pre- and post-tests.

http://www.mhschool.com/math/mathconnects/grade4/sg4c1lesson1.html

[ElizabethB]

The ADAM K-7 test will assess AND links to Kahn for remediation, well worth the $20 in my opinion. You might need more remediation than just Kahn for some areas, but it will be a start and it is a good, detailed assessment.

 

http://www.letsgolearn.com/lglsite/ADAM_math/parents/

[neeko]

I might be way off base here, but we were in a similar position last year.  If the gaps are just little areas where she needs to be shown a process, ignore me, but if they are random conceptual gaps that don't seem to be working themselves out over time, I'd like to suggest taking a look at RightStart.  Honestly, I wish I'd just bought RightStart D or E and Transitions at the beginning of last year and gone from there - we spent a year slogging through Saxon, thinking it would be rigorous and balance things out, but... no.  We're getting a nice fresh start with RS, and she's actually enjoying math now, too.  

 

[mom2bee]

Well, what were some of the programs that you used in the past? 4th grade isn't "too late" for going back and remediating anything. Infact, now is probably ideal because you still have plenty of time until you move into upper math. If you take the time now to go all the way back to the place that she last had total comfort with the concept and perfect execution of the algorithms and remediate with your focus on progressing at the rate of mastery and not at the rate of "keeping pace with the grade" then you'll probably be fine.

 

Unless your daughter has learning disabilities or difficulties it is possible that she just needs more time and practice with the various topics.

You could go back and work on topics by category (I would put my focus on arithmetic and familiarizing myself with/memorizing math facts above everything else)

By fourth grade, students are expected to have some mastery over arithmetic, some ability with calculating fractions, decimals and percents. I think I did a bit of geometry and some basic algebra (basic meaning: __ + 5 = 17, find __, or something along those lines.) there was also measurement of time, distance, capacity and some estimation/number sense work. I'm sure I could have over looked a few topics, but I think that most 4th grade programs will include at least those topics that I've mentioned.

 

You could probably create your own little list of topics and work through them at just a few of them each week while you determine what she's missing. The internet is stuffed with free worksheets and depending on what curriculum you've tried in the past, you could probably just pull pages from them to cover those skills, but it'll probably be easier on you to just find topical worksheets.

 

[kiana]

How is she doing with TT? What makes you think she doesn't really understand what she's done?

 

TT spirals enough that, if she placed into 4, she should not need to go back and remediate. Holes should be filled in by the spiral, although you may need to remind her of things she'd forgotten (which is quite normal).

[4maybabies]

Thank you for the suggestions! I will have to check out all the links that everyone posted. The thing is, she always scores about 90% or more on TT4, but her problem is that she is always SO afraid to get one wrong that she's always asking me for my help. I try to explain to her that at this point, I really don't care what score she gets, I just want her to UNDERSTAND what she did wrong, and learn from her mistakes. She doesn't see it that way :glare:

We have used CLE in the past, and I really liked it. Problem is, she DESPISED it. She is actually a very easy going child, and never really gives me a hard time for any school. I thought I could help her out by doing TT which she likes, and also leaves me more time with my other kiddos. I think CLE challenged her more than TT does.

I think we will just go back to square one and find out what she has mastered and what she needs work with. I would rather do that than continue where she is now.

 

 

 

 

[Ellie]

Thank you for the suggestions! I will have to check out all the links that everyone posted. The thing is, she always scores about 90% or more on TT4, but her problem is that she is always SO afraid to get one wrong that she's always asking me for my help. I try to explain to her that at this point, I really don't care what score she gets, I just want her to UNDERSTAND what she did wrong, and learn from her mistakes. She doesn't see it that way :glare:

 

We have used CLE in the past, and I really liked it. Problem is, she DESPISED it. She is actually a very easy going child, and never really gives me a hard time for any school. I thought I could help her out by doing TT which she likes, and also leaves me more time with my other kiddos. I think CLE challenged her more than TT does.

 

I think we will just go back to square one and find out what she has mastered and what she needs work with. I would rather do that than continue where she is now.

 

As you can see, it doesn't do any good to tell her that you don't care what score she gets. And since she's getting such high scores, clearly she does understand what she is doing. I don't see any reason to go back to square one. It almost seems to me that you're making more of an issue than it needs to be, and it's rubbing off on her in such a way that she has no confidence.

 

Or maybe it's your explanations and not TT's explanations.

 

I'm just thinking that it might be better for you to give her a big hug and then walk away from her math lesson, no matter how much she wants you to help, and let TT do its job.