FRUSTRATED by my k'er

[athomeontheprairie]

She is driving me crazy! every single thing that we have to do she fights. everything! why do we have to pour and stomp and complain? Why? if it is something she wants to do, which is play outside or watch a movie, then I am met with anger and crossed arms and more anger. I'm really tired of it! ! ! I really thought after the first couple weeks it would stop, but we are 8 weeks in and it is still every bit as bad as it was at the beginning.

they have ample time to take breaks and play, school is fun. she is warned ahead of time when she's going to have to stop playing, so it isn't a big shock that she has to come to the table for school. lessons are short. I'm at my wits end with her!

in hindsight she has always been this way.. as a baby, as a toddler, as a little girl. She had always given me more problems than her easy going sister....

HELP!

[athomeontheprairie]

I don't know how to edit from my phone... she is also the one that made me question whether or not I could homeschool. unfortunately we don't even have an option of public or private school, and with the amount of sleep she requires she would drown at school if we had to send her (she would be on the bus by 630 and home after 5).

[MomatHWTK]

Start by making no more comparisons, even in your own mind, between her and her sister.  Consider yourself lucky that your first was easy going.  Your other DD may be "just" strong willed, or she may have real issues going on ranging from ASD to sensory to ADD.  Maybe she isn't sleeping well for some reason and always feels "off,"  maybe she has undiagnosed food or environmental allergies that are causing her to have behavioral problems. 

 

Step one for you as a parent is to erase all expectations of what she can or will do, see her as a brand new totally unique person and study her to find out what makes her tick.  If you are fortunate, your other two children will at least resemble the first two in some way- if not, you get to study 4 personality types and try to make them all get along. (That's what I get to do around here. ;)  )

[JudoMom]

She is driving me crazy! every single thing that we have to do she fights. everything! why do we have to pour and stomp and complain? Why? if it is something she wants to do, which is play outside or watch a movie, then I am met with anger and crossed arms and more anger. I'm really tired of it! ! ! I really thought after the first couple weeks it would stop, but we are 8 weeks in and it is still every bit as bad as it was at the beginning.

they have ample time to take breaks and play, school is fun. she is warned ahead of time when she's going to have to stop playing, so it isn't a big shock that she has to come to the table for school. lessons are short. I'm at my wits end with her!

in hindsight she has always been this way.. as a baby, as a toddler, as a little girl. She had always given me more problems than her easy going sister....

HELP!

 

I found with my most energetic son that I needed to catch him at the beginning of the day and plow through.  No breaks.  Nothing fun before.  Get up (eat & dress), work, then play.  Cut out anything superfluous, just the basics.  Also, for the pouting and stomping and complaining, I would have her go to her room and sit on the bed every time until she was over it.  

[athomeontheprairie]

Im really not comparing her to her sister, though it might have sounded that way. They are so very different! They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Our oldest IS easier. our second can't be moved by anything, which I really think will help her in the long run. she has a stick-to-it that her sister certainly does not.

I know what she is capable of and I am certainly not asking more then what she could do. we also delayed formaly schooling for a year so she would be older and hopefully ready.

when she pouts and stomp, she does go to her room. but she would rather lie on her bed and do nothing than be happy and get school done.

can you talk to me about ASD or ADD? her dad has ADD I don't. She might, what do I look for? how do I talk to the doctor about it? I don't really want to medicate if there are other options....

ASD ? I'm not sure what this is... if it is a sensory thing? when she was 4 we had horrible fights! Horrible (makes me shiver just thinking about them!) I made a weighted blanket for her then that she still uses. it made a world of difference.

Please help me! I don't like not knowing how to help her. I feel lost with this kid, and I love her I want her to know that and feel success.

[abacus2]

With my dd who is like this, I've had to work on teaching the right ways to respond when frustrated or disappointed. You may not, scream, wail, say rude things, make rude faces, walk off in a huff, etc. Instead you may use your words to calmly talk about how you feel, ask for a time out to calm down, request a change, suggest an alternative, do what needs to be done even though you aren't happy about it, etc. I've had to teach her that while it is ok for her to be unhappy or disagree, it is not acceptable for her to express herself in rude ways or refuse to do what is needed. I do some role play about how to do things differently when she responds inappropriately.

[craftyerin]

I found with my most energetic son that I needed to catch him at the beginning of the day and plow through.  No breaks.  Nothing fun before.  Get up (eat & dress), work, then play.  Cut out anything superfluous, just the basics.  Also, for the pouting and stomping and complaining, I would have her go to her room and sit on the bed every time until she was over it.  

:iagree: My DS6 who is VERY contrary and will argue with a stump has a hard attitude when it comes to school.  If he is allowed to get started on ANYthing of his own choosing, it's nearly impossible to drag him back for school.  I can force it, but it's miserable for both of us.  I start 3Rs with him the very moment his breakfast dishes are cleared.  I bring his math and handwriting ot the breakfast table to start the *minute* he's through eating.  When those basics are done, he gets a long break to play while I do 3Rs with his siblings (twins, a grade younger).  Then we have a snack together, and I start my subjects that all kids do together during snack time, before he can scoot off again.   ;)  He gets 5 min of screen time (iphone or laptop) for each "working period" (3Rs, entertaining himself appropriately while I do 3Rs with sibs, and joint subjects).  I dock screen time minutes for attitude.  This is a fairly new system for us, and is working pretty well.  

[MomatHWTK]

This class helped me to understand a lot about ADHD.  https://class.coursera.org/adhd-001/class

 

ASD is autism spectrum disorder.  I only mention that because my child who appeared strong willed is actually either on the spectrum or what that call "not otherwise specified"- basically meaning not quite meeting the criteria but close.  :glare:

 

It is amazing the things that cause conflict for this child and the trouble he has with transitions.  If I drop the schedule for a day, we have to go back through the whole 'this is the schedule' routine.  There is often something else that he would rather be doing that I am interrupting.  Letting go of the emotional response and frustration is very hard for this child- offenses can be held for years and brought back up again. 

 

I have not read it yet, but the book "The Explosive Child" was highly recommended to me by several sources. 

 

It may be a matter of curricula too.  Some types of learning really annoy my child and he feels instantly upset thinking about those classes.  Ideally he would learn to accept unpleasant tasks.  In reality, to get learning into his head, I have to learn to be flexible with my curricula.  ;)

 

We saw and educational psychologist referred by our pediatrician.  I think probably any child psychologist could be a good start, ours just happened to have her PhD in educational psychology.  Initial testing revealed some issues but the remaining discoveries have come over time.  I do as much research as I can handle but it is difficult to wrap my mind around some of it so I go slowly.  (Which is why I haven't read the above referenced book yet.)

[kbutton]

This class helped me to understand a lot about ADHD.  https://class.coursera.org/adhd-001/class

 

ASD is autism spectrum disorder.  I only mention that because my child who appeared strong willed is actually either on the spectrum or what that call "not otherwise specified"- basically meaning not quite meeting the criteria but close.  :glare:

 

It is amazing the things that cause conflict for this child and the trouble he has with transitions.  If I drop the schedule for a day, we have to go back through the whole 'this is the schedule' routine.  There is often something else that he would rather be doing that I am interrupting.  Letting go of the emotional response and frustration is very hard for this child- offenses can be held for years and brought back up again. 

 

I have not read it yet, but the book "The Explosive Child" was highly recommended to me by several sources. 

 

It may be a matter of curricula too.  Some types of learning really annoy my child and he feels instantly upset thinking about those classes.  Ideally he would learn to accept unpleasant tasks.  In reality, to get learning into his head, I have to learn to be flexible with my curricula.  ;)

 

We saw and educational psychologist referred by our pediatrician.  I think probably any child psychologist could be a good start, ours just happened to have her PhD in educational psychology.  Initial testing revealed some issues but the remaining discoveries have come over time.  I do as much research as I can handle but it is difficult to wrap my mind around some of it so I go slowly.  (Which is why I haven't read the above referenced book yet.)

 

Like this poster's situation, my son appeared borderline ADD (but only in some circumstances), and we eventually figured out he had sensory issues...then we found out he has Asperger's (straddling the line between full Asperger's and Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified). He presented as some weird combination of obsessive compulsive and oppositional when he was smaller (now, he sails along until all of the sudden he's a basket case). Basically, control was how he achieved stability, avoided crippling anxiety, and limited exposure to the unknown. Sensory issues often coincide with or "mature" into anxiety issues, and both go along with spectrum issues. I have heard wonderful things about The Explosive Child also, but haven't gotten to it yet either. Other possibilities...The Mislabeled Child (looks at many, many symptoms and compares/contrasts various possibilities--cued us into sensory issues), Bright Not Broken, Out of Sync Child (and its spin-offs). I have to keep things pretty bare bones with school. He is very smart, but he wants to get things done, and if he's having a bad day, having history intertwined with science, writing, reading, literature, etc. gets way too complicated (no unit studies here). We have other quirks in the family too, and when they come up, they undermine our efforts with our son--any stress can do that.

 

Best wishes to you.

[HeartatHome]

It sounds to me like a discipline issue.  Does she get any consequences for her attitude?   Some children are naturally more compliant/easy going and may not give you these problems but if you have a more stubborn or strong willed child it's just something you need to deal with and nip in the bud quickly or it will only continue.  I mean this in the best way because I have one and have experienced this.  :glare:   It may take a few weeks but come up with a few consequences and start tomorrow and follow through.   I notice a HUGE improvement in my dd when I'm firm about her attitude and am consistent on following through with consequences.

 

 

[anabelneri]

We have some of that going on here, too.  Lil'un is K'er this year, and I knew as we approached it that we would have an interesting time.  I don't think she has ASD, though ADHD does run in the family, I don't think that's her issue either.  I think she's just strong willed.

 

What is working this week: if she is going to "mess up" the atmosphere of our home with attitude, tantruming, hitting, being uncooperative, etc. then she gets to help clean it up by doing a chore.  She has folded laundry, washed dishes, cleaned the parakeet's cage, cleaned her room, etc.  It seems to really be helping.  The first day of it she ended up with something like 9 chores, and it took the better part of the afternoon & evening, but partway through she looked happier than I've seen her in weeks, even before school started.

 

We also work hard to show that we are listening to her, that we understand that she's not happy about certain things, especially when we can see them from her perspective.  If she has spent a day with her sister refusing to play with her, and we get to the evening and she's miserable, I can totally understand why she's so upset.  I can see that she's hurting.  So we talk about it and I try to give her coping tools, and sometimes I can play with her, or sometimes I tell her sister to play with her.  The combination of empathy and chores has been working well.

 

I have definitely planned her schoolwork around her style of working.  I have in my signature that she's doing Right Start B, and that's true, sort of.  We're not working through it in the standard way, but I'm looking at the skills requested and we're playing the Right Start games to learn them.  And honestly, I'm bribing her to do that.  She isn't one to follow instructions (she's just like my mom!) but offer 2 peanut M&Ms for every math game played, and she's right there.  :)  

 

All that said, we're also going the therapy route.  I need more tools to work with her, and a child psychologist is the right type of person to help with that.  We've only had one family session thus far, so I've got my fingers crossed.

 

Good luck!  It sounds like you need it.

[ebrindam]

I have one like that. I recently acquired a book that helped me a lot, that deals with explosive gifted kids. I can look it up for you if you like.

 

I would really like the name of the book if you have it available!

[anabelneri]

I would really like the name of the book if you have it available!

 

Oh, yes, please share!

:)

[SJ.]

I would really like the name of the book if you have it available!

 Yes, here too!  

 

Your dd sounds like my ds.  I thought he would grow out of this type of behavior but now he is 8.5 yo and we are still having problems.

[kristi26]

Im really not comparing her to her sister, though it might have sounded that way. They are so very different! They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Our oldest IS easier. our second can't be moved by anything, which I really think will help her in the long run. she has a stick-to-it that her sister certainly does not.

I know what she is capable of and I am certainly not asking more then what she could do. we also delayed formaly schooling for a year so she would be older and hopefully ready.

when she pouts and stomp, she does go to her room. but she would rather lie on her bed and do nothing than be happy and get school done.

can you talk to me about ASD or ADD? her dad has ADD I don't. She might, what do I look for? how do I talk to the doctor about it? I don't really want to medicate if there are other options....

ASD ? I'm not sure what this is... if it is a sensory thing? when she was 4 we had horrible fights! Horrible (makes me shiver just thinking about them!) I made a weighted blanket for her then that she still uses. it made a world of difference.

Please help me! I don't like not knowing how to help her. I feel lost with this kid, and I love her I want her to know that and feel success.

 

Have you considered cutting out food dyes as a trial?  My DD was very much like yours several years ago, before we cut it completely from her diet.  She would go upstairs and scream, kick the walls, shout mean things, etc. and it could last 45-60 minutes at a time.  She "hated school" no matter what I did.  She struggled to pay attention, struggled to have fun with anything, she was miserable.  A friend of mine had cut dye from her son's diet and saw amazing changes so we tried it and she has been a dream. She is sweet, fun, happy, and LIKES school. Start reading labels and see where you find it.  It can take several days to a week to get it completely out of her system.  We even stopped letting her use dyed toothpaste, chew dyed gum, eat dyed tic tacs. That's my two cents!

[Clear Creek]

Some kids are just like that.  My middle child has always been like that.  Now that she is older (4th grade) I tell her to compose herself and fix her attitude and she does, but it took years to get here.  For kindergarten I would do school work first thing in the morning to eliminate the fussing over having to stop playing, and focus on reading only for formal school work - and for a max of 20 minutes.  After that, the day is hers.  There is nothing (besides learning to read) that is worth fighting over in kindergarten.  Fine motor skills can be worked on by coloring and playing with play-dough, memory work can be done by songs as you go about your day (sing the days of the week, etc.), counting and numeracy skills can be worked on in the kitchen and at the store, and everything else can be covered by reading to her.  She will not be behind if she begins penmanship, math, history, etc. in first grade.