Info on Community College?

[CyndiLJ]

My hubby and I were talking yesterday about the possibility of community college for our kids. Our first starts high school this year, and this is all new to us. I knew someone here would have some answers for me :-)

 

If your plan is community college/trade tech school right out of high school, and then later to attend a four year after CC to finish off the degree, do the foreign language requirements or other requirements for certain classes in high school apply? Or if you have a significant number of credits coming from a CC going into a 4 year university, do they just pay attention to the CC course work?

 

We have several special needs kids and are years behind in some areas, so our situation is markedly different than most. We know some might want higher ed, some might be able to handle a four year eventually but none are likely to do so straight from high school graduation. CC would be a good choice for us on many levels, and I'd really like to use high school to focus more strongly on life skills, foundational knowledge, etc. rather than teaching as much toward immediate college entrance right out of high school. I am going to be hard pressed to get everything covered well for high school graduation, and life skills are sorely lacking due to be adopted at much older ages. It feels more crucial to focus our efforts there, for now, but I don't want to preclude college as a possibility in the future should they desire to eventually attend.

 

I appreciate any help!

[Arcadia]

Or if you have a significant number of credits coming from a CC going into a 4 year university, do they just pay attention to the CC course work?

 

The person is treated as a transfer admission case, not on the same category as high school graduates. So far hubby's colleagues who have an associate degree in engineering and are now back in school to get their bachelors won't questioned on their high school diplomas. Only their community college coursework was assessed.

 

E.g.

for University of Florida

http://www.admissions.ufl.edu/ugrad/trapprocess.html

For UCB

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/requirements/transfer-credit/index.html

[Lori D.]

Sounds like great, and very wise, plan! As Arcadia says, a student who goes from high school to community college (CC) to a 4-year university is a transfer student. My only thoughts would be to check into the requirements and options at the CC and the unversity. Look into details such as:

 

 

What is the quality of the CC courses?

Are they accepted at the 4-year university (i.e., is there a transfer agreement between the CC and the university)? Are the CC's classes accepted at other universities, in case down the line one or more of your students wants to attend a school other than the local university?

 

 

What are the CC's admission policies?

While you'll need to check what your CC's specific admissions policies are, I haven't heard of any CC's having any required courses (such as foreign language) as part of their admission policy. Usually, the only requirements most CCs have is that a student is required to have either a high school diploma or a GED -- OR be a high school student doing dual enrollment.

 

 

Keep the university option open

Another thing to consider is that by the time your students reach high school graduation, they may have matured much more than you expected, and might be willing and able to go straight to a 4-year university; so keep that in mind as you plan your high school coursework to keep that option open, too. That will mostly mean accomplishing the credits that a majority of university admissions require of freshmen:

4 credits = English

4 credits = Math

3 credits = Science

2-3 credits = Social Studies (with 1 credit = American History)

2-3 credits = Foreign Language

1 credit = Fine Arts

 

That is only 16-18 credits, still leaving you another 4-8 credits for whatever your "mom requirements". And there are many creative ways of accomplishing these credits. :)

 

 

Look into your specific CC dual enrollment opportunities

One option is taking 1-2 classes in the senior year at the CC as dual enrollment, to help transition your student very gently into post-high school education. Our DSs did the foreign language at the CC as dual enrollment, with 1 semester of CC = 1 year of high school credit, so the 2 credits of Foreign Language were done in the senior year. Plus, they counted as college credit, both for the CC and for a future 4-year university degree.

 

Another option to look into is possible free dual enrollment while your students are still in high school; some schools offer 1-2 classes per semester with free tuition to high school students.

 

 

Check out your CC's transfer options

For example, there may be a transfer certificate option that allows your student to take specific gen. ed. courses at the CC to transfer to the 4-year school, knocking out 2 years at the often-times cheaper CC.

 

 

Check out your CC's vocational 2-year degree options

Another option to look for is a 2-year vocational degree that your student might start while in high school, and finish after graduation, that would give your student the opportunity to move into working at higher pay much sooner (such as cosmetology) to earn money for going later to a 4-year college, or as a house down payment, or to start their own business. Or, having that 2-year degree can be a great "fall-back" career option for poor economic times in the future.

 

While you're at it, compare the CC vocational options -- how much does a 1-year certificate typically earn, vs. a 2-year AAS degree? Compare the quality and acceptance -- i.e. the *employablility* -- of the certificates/degrees of the CC with local tech/trade schools; often the CC certificates/degrees are much more accepted and hire-able, and of a better quality of training than the for-profit tech/trade schools.

 

 

Finally, I think you are very wise to slow things down for your students to the pace THEY need, and to focus on life preparation. Since your students came into your family later, you may want to consider the possibility of a 5th year of high school, or doing 8th grade twice, to give your DC an extra year of time and maturity for high school. Two homeschool friends of ours had their children "walk" through the homeschool graduation ceremony this year, but will not award the diplomas until NEXT year, giving their students a chance to finish maturing and take classes as dual enrollment at the CC. This allows the students to accrue quite a few credits, and then still enter the high school as freshmen (to be eligible for the more numerous scholarships), rather than as transfer students (not as many scholarships).

 

BEST of luck as you plan for your high school adventures! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[creekland]

At our cc (they differ, so check yours), you'll only need the ACT or SAT if intending to duel enroll while still in high school. If not, you can totally skip those tests and just enroll after the student has turned 18 and graduated. Their placement tests will place the student in the correct class for them.

 

From cc kids can choose 2 year degrees, certificates for trades or specialties, or to move on as a transfer student to finish at a 4 year school. There are many options and that path is perfect for a large number of students. It is VERY recommended for those who aren't sure what they want to do, but know they want more, for those who want to solidify their academic skills better, for those who need an inexpensive 4 year degree and didn't get enough aid at 4 year schools, and for those who know they want certain programs the cc has, but are expensive elsewhere (culinary, nursing come to mind).

[G5052]

You need to ask these questions of the community college you're considering. Unfortunately the policies and quality of community colleges really varies.

 

My kids will likely attend the community college where I teach. Thankfully it is a solid school with small classes and good professors. Only about 25% end up graduating within three years, but of those that graduate, 2/3 go on to four-year schools within two years.. And the majority of the four-year schools in the area have guaranteed transfer agreements, so if you have the right courses and grades, you have nothing to worry about.

 

In foreign languages, the community colleges and most of the full universities use the SAT Subject Test for placement and will grant credits for high school work.

[ksr5377]

I agree you have to check with your particular CC. Here our local CC has set up a program with the big state school in town that makes trasnferring a breeze. Not only will all the credits transfer but you're also guaranteed admission to the state school as long as you have a 2.0 at the CC. This comes on the heels of the big state school spending the last decade or so significantly increasing their admission requirements for incoming freshmen, so for many, this is a great back door way in.

[Ellie]

My hubby and I were talking yesterday about the possibility of community college for our kids. Our first starts high school this year, and this is all new to us. I knew someone here would have some answers for me :-)

 

If your plan is community college/trade tech school right out of high school, and then later to attend a four year after CC to finish off the degree, do the foreign language requirements or other requirements for certain classes in high school apply? Or if you have a significant number of credits coming from a CC going into a 4 year university, do they just pay attention to the CC course work?

 

We have several special needs kids and are years behind in some areas, so our situation is markedly different than most. We know some might want higher ed, some might be able to handle a four year eventually but none are likely to do so straight from high school graduation. CC would be a good choice for us on many levels, and I'd really like to use high school to focus more strongly on life skills, foundational knowledge, etc. rather than teaching as much toward immediate college entrance right out of high school. I am going to be hard pressed to get everything covered well for high school graduation, and life skills are sorely lacking due to be adopted at much older ages. It feels more crucial to focus our efforts there, for now, but I don't want to preclude college as a possibility in the future should they desire to eventually attend.

 

I appreciate any help!

 

 

In California, the high school transcript becomes irrelevant for students transferring from c.c. to University of California or California State colleges. In fact, a high school transcript is irrelevant for community college students in general. Certain courses must be taken for a degree, regardless of high school courses.

 

Our dc did c.c. instead of high school.

[Dana]

For transfer, look for the articulation agreement if there is one between the cc and end college. Then you'll have a better idea of which courses transfer in. It also may be a good idea to get an AA or AS before transfer. Then the child has a degree even if something happens at the uni.

[G5052]

And I didn't note this in my earlier post, but I also recommend talking to a few of the 4-year schools you're thinking about.

 

The local college fair is at the community college where I teach, so I go with my community college nameplate every year and ask the tough questions. Every year I think of some little bit to ask, so it isn't time wasted at all. There's something about looking the admissions people in the eye versus email and phone calls. And the conversations I've had convinced me that starting at the community college is a perfectly valid option. The schools we're looking at welcome graduates of that particular community college and have no concerns at all about their preparation. Truly no concerns.

 

Oh, and the tuition is 1/2 of the 4-year schools and the community college is 15 minutes away. The three possible commuter colleges are an hour away, although one has a bus system that will make it easier and there are many who carpool from our area. So it is win-win for us to start at the community college if we don't get financial aid that makes going further feasible.

[CyndiLJ]

Wow! This forum is like magic! Make a post, go to bed, and the next morning...KAPOW!!!

 

Thanks so much for all your wonderful information!

 

We actually don't live near any Community College as we live in rural Colorado and the closest is an hour and a half away. However, because of the rural nature of our state, the CC's have done a great job, from the little I have heard, of working with the bigger colleges in our state and creating an online program with a network of CC's that are guaranteed to transfer. What I didn't know was how much what we do in high school effects entrance post-CC into a university. It is unlikely that the majority of our kids will go to a four year, but all will need/get some sort of post-high school training.

 

Thanks a million for your help! As I homeschool, you ARE my guidance team!

[Laura in CA]

 

 

The person is treated as a transfer admission case, not on the same category as high school graduates. So far hubby's colleagues who have an associate degree in engineering and are now back in school to get their bachelors won't questioned on their high school diplomas. Only their community college coursework was assessed.

 

E.g.

for University of Florida

http://www.admissions.ufl.edu/ugrad/trapprocess.html

For UCB

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/requirements/transfer-credit/index.html

 

Just a note of caution re UCB ... things are different for homeschoolers, especially independent ones (who are not going through a school district or charter school) ... my cousin's son transferred to Berkeley from a CC and had homeschooled high school -- and he had to take the GED. He was 28 years old, had a 4.0 at the CC, president of the CC honor society, and naturally did NOT want to take the GED, but finally did -- it was a deal-breaker for UC Berkeley ...

 

Oh, and this all happened this spring ... March 2013 ...

 

[creekland]

Just a note of caution re UCB ... things are different for homeschoolers, especially independent ones (who are not going through a school district or charter school) ... my cousin's son transferred to Berkeley from a CC and had homeschooled high school -- and he had to take the GED. He was 28 years old, had a 4.0 at the CC, president of the CC honor society, and naturally did NOT want to take the GED, but finally did -- it was a deal-breaker for UC Berkeley ...

 

Oh, and this all happened this spring ... March 2013 ...

 

That's really sad...

 

Educated people (at UCB) really should be able to THINK IMO.

[Arcadia]

Just a note of caution re UCB ... things are different for homeschoolers, especially independent ones (who are not going through a school district or charter school) ... my cousin's son transferred to Berkeley from a CC and had homeschooled high school -- and he had to take the GED. He was 28 years old, had a 4.0 at the CC, president of the CC honor society, and naturally did NOT want to take the GED, but finally did -- it was a deal-breaker for UC Berkeley ...

 

Oh, and this all happened this spring ... March 2013 ...

Wow. Ds is looking at a tech school that does not have any homeschool admissions provisions. It's GED score or accredited diploma. :( I told him we'll see. Maybe in 5 years when he graduates they will have a different position.

 

Hubby's colleagues took the CAHSEE (California High School Exit Exam) and had their associate degree before applying. UCB is very picky. I just link the page for OP to see examples of requirements by different colleges.

 

Jen,

 

Would the CAHSEE work for the school your son is interested in?

[Lori D.]

Wow! This forum is like magic! Make a post, go to bed, and the next morning...KAPOW!!!

 

:smilielol5:

 

 

We actually don't live near any Community College as we live in rural Colorado and the closest is an hour and a half away. However, because of the rural nature of our state, the CC's have done a great job, from the little I have heard, of working with the bigger colleges in our state and creating an online program with a network of CC's that are guaranteed to transfer.

 

 

Another possibility for dual enrollment would be a distance course. That is *excellent* life-skills training for being responsible, opportunity to learn from someone else or self-learn, figuring out how to study for a class and work that into your weekly schedule, learning how to use the online discussions or access lectures, or submit papers, etc. So much of real-life business and services is moving towards automated and online systems, it would be well-worth it to have DC take a distance class through the CC for practice in learning how to negociate these systems (with parental guidance). :)

 

In addition, from the quote above, it sounds like many of those CC distance courses would transfer into the university! :)

 

 

What I didn't know was how much what we do in high school effects entrance post-CC into a university. It is unlikely that the majority of our kids will go to a four year, but all will need/get some sort of post-high school training.

 

Well, yes and no... You do NOT have to have the credits I listed in my post above if the plan is to go straight from high school to CC. And once a student has earned credits at the CC, the CC transcript is really all the university is going to look at for a transfer student. It's just if you're pretty sure the student will attend a university at some point in the future AND you want to keep costs to a minimum, then you want to make as many of the CC credits work towards a 4-year degree as possible -- and that includes high school dual enrollment credits. Does that make sense?

 

For example, I outsourced our foreign language as dual enrollment to the CC, but looking WAY ahead -- and NOT knowing for sure DSs would even go to a 4-year school -- I saw that most universities require 12-16 units of college foreign language (one semester class = 4 units). Sso if we were also doing foreign language for the high school diploma, why not double dip and do it via dual enrollment, so DSs graduate high school with all their high school requirements me -- but simultaneously with 8 units of the 120 units needed for a BA already on their permanent college record! :)

 

A number of homeschoolers with advanced students often graduate high school with 30-45 units -- and some even have completed the AAS during the last 2 years of high school. That was NOT where my DSs were in ability and maturity. But handling 1 dual enrollment class per semester of the senior year WAS very do-able, and it REALLY made the transition into going full time at the CC after high school graduation SO much easier for them. They had already had the chance to very gently/slowly ease into how the college system works and how to learn in the college environment.

 

I know that is a ways off for your DC, and with special needs that just may not work in your DC's unique timetable. But... just wanted to encourage you that there are options out there, and that your DC may really surprise you with how they mature in the last 2 years of high school!

 

(For example, my younger DS has struggled with mild LDs throughout our homeschooling years, esp. with math and writing, and with simple things like scheduling and organization. But he really blossomed in those 2 semesters of dual enrollment. And now, he has completed his first year at the CC, and really surprised me at how well he matured more and managed well.... I DO have to be honest, though: He did have one near-disaster (he did not even START work on his one all-online courses until I happened to casually ask how it was going at the halfway mark of the semester. :svengo: In addition to reading the text/taking the quizzes, and online discussions, there were EIGHT research papers required! But he *asked* for me to intervene with some heavy tutoring/guidance and monitoring to help him get back on track, and he has finished 2 semesters, each with a full-load of 13 units, with a very high GPA! I am so proud of him! -- But I do have to add, I think I'm twice as grey-haired now as I was before that online class! ! ! :ohmy: )

 

 

BEST of luck in your high school (and college planning!) adventures. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[CyndiLJ]

Sounds like great, and very wise, plan! As Arcadia says, a student who goes from high school to community college (CC) to a 4-year university is a transfer student. My only thoughts would be to check into the requirements and options at the CC and the unversity. Look into details such as:

 

Thanks for your warm encouragement, Lori. I have read SO many of your posts, and find you to be a wealth of helpful information to all varieties of homeschoolers! Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question!

 

 

What is the quality of the CC courses?

Are they accepted at the 4-year university (i.e., is there a transfer agreement between the CC and the university)? Are the CC's classes accepted at other universities, in case down the line one or more of your students wants to attend a school other than the local university?

 

 

What are the CC's admission policies?

While you'll need to check what your CC's specific admissions policies are, I haven't heard of any CC's having any required courses (such as foreign language) as part of their admission policy. Usually, the only requirements most CCs have is that a student is required to have either a high school diploma or a GED -- OR be a high school student doing dual enrollment.

 

We are homeschooling through a charter (full control for me of curricula, just must be secular) and our kids will all have a standard high school diploma upon graduation.

 

Keep the university option open

Another thing to consider is that by the time your students reach high school graduation, they may have matured much more than you expected, and might be willing and able to go straight to a 4-year university; so keep that in mind as you plan your high school coursework to keep that option open, too. That will mostly mean accomplishing the credits that a majority of university admissions require of freshmen:

4 credits = English

4 credits = Math

3 credits = Science

2-3 credits = Social Studies (with 1 credit = American History)

2-3 credits = Foreign Language

1 credit = Fine Arts

 

I think we will easily do all of the above with the exception of a Foreign Language. We have two who are three years into learning English and not ready to tackle another, and another with processing issues who struggles enough with language anyway! I know we can always cover that later, in CC, if necessary, but it gives me heartburn thinking about it now.

 

That is only 16-18 credits, still leaving you another 4-8 credits for whatever your "mom requirements". And there are many creative ways of accomplishing these credits. :)

 

 

Look into your specific CC dual enrollment opportunities

One option is taking 1-2 classes in the senior year at the CC as dual enrollment, to help transition your student very gently into post-high school education. Our DSs did the foreign language at the CC as dual enrollment, with 1 semester of CC = 1 year of high school credit, so the 2 credits of Foreign Language were done in the senior year. Plus, they counted as college credit, both for the CC and for a future 4-year university degree.

 

I didn't know that 1 semester of CC = 1 year of high school credit. Is that true generally or just for foreign language? I wonder if that would be true for our charter program or if they would make it equivalent to one semester for one semester. Great questions for me to ask!

 

Another option to look into is possible free dual enrollment while your students are still in high school; some schools offer 1-2 classes per semester with free tuition to high school students.

 

 

Check out your CC's transfer options

For example, there may be a transfer certificate option that allows your student to take specific gen. ed. courses at the CC to transfer to the 4-year school, knocking out 2 years at the often-times cheaper CC.

 

 

Check out your CC's vocational 2-year degree options

Another option to look for is a 2-year vocational degree that your student might start while in high school, and finish after graduation, that would give your student the opportunity to move into working at higher pay much sooner (such as cosmetology) to earn money for going later to a 4-year college, or as a house down payment, or to start their own business. Or, having that 2-year degree can be a great "fall-back" career option for poor economic times in the futur

 

You seem to have a feel for where we are heading, while not wanting to cut off the possibility that things might change int he future. The 2-year degree is what we are thinking, or Vo-Tech, and for a couple of our kids this is exactly what they want...run a business or perhaps CAD, etc. which doesn't require the 4 year cost.

 

While you're at it, compare the CC vocational options -- how much does a 1-year certificate typically earn, vs. a 2-year AAS degree? Compare the quality and acceptance -- i.e. the *employablility* -- of the certificates/degrees of the CC with local tech/trade schools; often the CC certificates/degrees are much more accepted and hire-able, and of a better quality of training than the for-profit tech/trade school

 

Again, good things to think about...we will most likely take this route and I had never thought about this at all!

 

Finally, I think you are very wise to slow things down for your students to the pace THEY need, and to focus on life preparation. Since your students came into your family later, you may want to consider the possibility of a 5th year of high school, or doing 8th grade twice, to give your DC an extra year of time and maturity for high school. Two homeschool friends of ours had their children "walk" through the homeschool graduation ceremony this year, but will not award the diplomas until NEXT year, giving their students a chance to finish maturing and take classes as dual enrollment at the CC. This allows the students to accrue quite a few credits, and then still enter the high school as freshmen (to be eligible for the more numerous scholarships), rather than as transfer students (not as many scholarships).

 

Lori, you have no idea how much I appreciate your words. This board is the BEST place for information, but so often it can be discouraging for families like ours whose kids simply don't fit into the mold. What I would have done versus what I CAN do is so startlingly different, and hard for me to accept once in a while. We are already planning on a 5th year for high school, as we originally were on track for graduation a year later but the State came back to us 2 years after beginning our charter school program and said our daughters had to be pushed up a grade by state law. Someone made a mistake at enrollment, I guess. Three of our five will be graduating at 20 or 21, however the good thing is it will be a real diploma, they will have absolutely covered ALL high school material at a high school level.

 

Sometimes even thinking about all of this gives me such a headache! We have such an unusual mix of wonderful kids here, who are all over the map. It is making thinking about high school very complicated. Among our five we have three ELL learners, SEVERE auditory processing disorder, other unlabeled processing issues, short and long term memory loss, suspected Traumatic Brain Injury, Dysgraphia, suspected Dyscalcula, executive functioning disorders, and two who qualify as "gifted" though ALL of them are gifted in their own ways! Trying to see a path that makes sense for them is enough to make a full time job on its own, let alone teaching!! Haha!

 

How I love it though. Lots of doubts and insecurities along the way, but this is the single most important thing I'll ever do, and I know it.

 

Thanks again for your wonderful posts (Just read the next one). You are a gift to the entire Community here!!

 

Warmly,

 

Cindy

 

 

 

 

 

BEST of luck as you plan for your high school adventures! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I can't say anything that hasn't already been stated but I wanted you to know I was thinking about you. Are you close to any of the fires? My mom told me there are new fires, with a couple of them being farther west. I hope you are out of the danger zone.

[CyndiLJ]

What does the Vo-tech just up the road from you offer? Are they considered high school level classes or CC or what? Since CMU offers some classes at the library in town, would any of those be of use? We've always just used Western, and you're just too far away for us for multiple trips a week.

 

Several kids here have gone to Sterling for the first two years and then transferred to CU or CSU. As they are all CO state schools, the articulation agreements hold. Another choice might be Wyo Tech a few years on down the road.

 

I just checked on the Vo-tech--looks like the kid basically just has to be 16. They offer all SORTS of things!

 

 

Margaret, we are actually looking into Vo-Tech as well as the new Community College connected with Mesa. I have heard mixed reviews about Vo-Tech's depth and breadth, but we will still seriously consider it. There is no way we would ever be able to consider an out of state school, so the CC to 4 year in CO would be a strong possibility.

 

We are also considering Thomas Edison State University online as well, depending upon area of study, etc.

 

So much we aren't sure of...this is all SO hard!

[Lori D.]

 

So much we aren't sure of...this is all SO hard!

 

 

 

But you have time to unfold this tangled issue slowly. :)

 

Your oldest DC (if your signature is current ;)) are only 14yo. If DC need all 4 years, and a 5th year, to get their feet under them for high school -- then use that! They will grow and mature amazingly in the next 5 years, which will give you a clearer idea of what route is going to be the best fit for each one. It's great to research now so you know what your options are, but don't fret... It really does become more clear when the time for decision-making arrives. :)