Religion and birth control

[Shahrazad]

So Islam teaches that the soul enters the fetus at 120 day gestation?

 

Yes :).

[gardenmom5]

FYI, 'Saturday's Warrior' is pretty doctrinally incorrect ;). Sometimes it's tricky to differentiate between the LDS doctrine and the LDS culture.

even for some LDS.

 

I appreciate meggie for posting on the official teachings. I've always heard it as "no selfish birth control". that gives alot of leeway either way. and that couples are expected to make these decisions together and prayerfully with the Lord. (and the woman's dr in certain cases.)

 

I am personally opposed to hormone based methods because of how they mess up body chemistry.

[DianeW88]

I am LDS (former RC, Moxie) and in our church, we are taught that the marriage relationship is sacred and ordained of God, and that a married couple has the right to seek their own guidance and direction from the Lord on the number of children they should bear. The mother's health and mental state along with her and the father's ability to rear and guide their children in a loving, peaceful, home is most definitely something the parents consider and pray about.

 

Through prayer, the guidance of the Holy Ghost, and personal revelation, the couple makes their own decisions regarding birth control and family size. Our church believes this is an intimate decision that is between the couple and the Lord and nobody else. Of course a couple may seek guidance or help from their bishop on any marital issue that concerns them, but there are no general pronouncements regarding the kind of birth control that any couple may use (except for abortion...that is prohibited) made from the pulpit of the church.

 

We believe that people have the ability to seek guidance from the Lord on this and receive the answer that is right FOR THEM. No two couples are the same, nor do they struggle with the same issues in life, and the answer one couple may receive will probably be completely different than what another couple will receive. We believe in a personal, loving, Father in Heaven who knows us intimately and will guide and direct our lives in the best way to enable us to have joy here on earth with our families now, and in heaven after we die.

[acsnmama]

I'm a Christian (not Catholic). Because of my belief that life begins at conception, I am personally uncomfortable with birth control methods that prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. I have no personal issues with birth control that prevents conception. I don't know whether many denominations make this distinction, but it's an important one for me personally.

 

 

I agree with this. Unfortunately, I am on BC pills, and I hope to stop taking them soon. It has been easy for us to get pregnant and I wanted to avoid pregnancy, as the last 2 years or so have been very, very stressful. But I hate being on the BC because of my personal convictions, exactly as you stated. DH and I need to pray about it for sure.

 

Of course the BC pill commercials, etc, tell you that it stops you from ovulating. But the info sheet along with the prescription says that fertilization can happen. Yet of course, there would be no way of knowing...

[Veritaserum]

When dh and I got married, we were orthodox LDS. We were concerned about whether or not it was appropriate to delay pregnancy due to both of us being college students. We were at BYU (church-owned school), so we took advantage of that (the Internet was still a baby :-P) and looked up all the quotes we could find from past prophets regarding families and birth control. We found stacks of quotes discouraging birth control with some even condemning it as selfish or against God's plan. We decided, however, to take the issue to the Lord in prayer to receive specific counsel for us. We got the answer to wait. After six months we felt like we weren't supposed to wait anymore. I stopped the pill and conceived our first child the next month.

 

We did not use birth control again until after our fifth child. We followed the body of teachings that encouraged "living together normally and letting the children come." In other words, it seemed very clear to us that no birth control should be the norm and birth control should only be used for exceptions.

 

When our fifth child was born eight years after first, we were both overwhelmed. Around this time the church got involved with Prop 8, which began my disaffection with church leadership and teachings. I got an IUD. I had my IUD removed a few years later when we decided to have a sixth child.

 

After our sixth was born, we both knew we had reached our absolute limit. The church strongly discourages sterilization for non-medical reasons and tells couples to council with their bishop (lay congregational leader):

 

"The Church strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control. Surgical sterilization should be considered only if (1) medical conditions seriously jeopardize life or health or (2) birth defects or serious trauma have rendered a person mentally incompetent and not responsible for his or her actions. Such conditions must be determined by competent medical judgment and in accordance with law. Even then, the persons responsible for this decision should consult with each other and with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of their decision through prayer."

 

I had no interest in discussing our sex life and fertility with our bishop (who is not a trained counselor and is not a medical doctor). Dh, even though he was and is devout, did not feel the need, either. We both felt that it was nobody's business except for ours and we felt that God approved. We felt completely peaceful about that decision. We still do. :)

[meggie]

When dh and I got married, we were orthodox LDS. We were concerned about whether or not it was appropriate to delay pregnancy due to both of us being college students. We were at BYU (church-owned school), so we took advantage of that (the Internet was still a baby :-P) and looked up all the quotes we could find from past prophets regarding families and birth control. We found stacks of quotes discouraging birth control with some even condemning it as selfish or against God's plan. We decided, however, to take the issue to the Lord in prayer to receive specific counsel for us. We got the answer to wait. After six months we felt like we weren't supposed to wait anymore. I stopped the pill and conceived our first child the next month.

 

We did not use birth control again until after our fifth child. We followed the body of teachings that encouraged "living together normally and letting the children come." In other words, it seemed very clear to us that no birth control should be the norm and birth control should only be used for exceptions.

 

When our fifth child was born eight years after first, we were both overwhelmed. Around this time the church got involved with Prop 8, which began my disaffection with church leadership and teachings. I got an IUD. I had my IUD removed a few years later when we decided to have a sixth child.

 

After our sixth was born, we both knew we had reached our absolute limit. The church strongly discourages sterilization for non-medical reasons and tells couples to council with their bishop (lay congregational leader):

 

"The Church strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control. Surgical sterilization should be considered only if (1) medical conditions seriously jeopardize life or health or (2) birth defects or serious trauma have rendered a person mentally incompetent and not responsible for his or her actions. Such conditions must be determined by competent medical judgment and in accordance with law. Even then, the persons responsible for this decision should consult with each other and with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of their decision through prayer."

 

I had no interest in discussing our sex life and fertility with our bishop (who is not a trained counselor and is not a medical doctor). Dh, even though he was and is devout, did not feel the need, either. We both felt that it was nobody's business except for ours and we felt that God approved. We felt completely peaceful about that decision. We still do. :)

 

While pregnant with Chuck, I was considering getting my tubes tied. A friend told me about this, so I went to the Bishop. Poor man had the biggest, "Why are you talking about this with me?" look on his face. He even looked this section up in the handbook. Poor man. He said the decision was up to me and DH and we'd be supported either way (not like he'd go around gossiping about it, but that it wouldn't keep me from callings, etc)

 

I told my mom about it and she was very surprised too. She and lots of her friends had all had their tubes tied w/o ever talking to the bishop. Never had it affect anything either.

[Veritaserum]

 

 

While pregnant with Chuck, I was considering getting my tubes tied. A friend told me about this, so I went to the Bishop. Poor man had the biggest, "Why are you talking about this with me?" look on his face. He even looked this section up in the handbook. Poor man. He said the decision was up to me and DH and we'd be supported either way (not like he'd go around gossiping about it, but that it wouldn't keep me from callings, etc)

 

I told my mom about it and she was very surprised too. She and lots of her friends had all had their tubes tied w/o ever talking to the bishop. Never had it affect anything either.

 

Yeah, most people disregard the handbook on this one. ;) I think the handbook ought to change. There are people who infer that since it is strongly discouraged, it should not be considered at all. (I was one of these in my orthodox days when I had fewer children.)

 

What is my bishop supposed to tell me about a medical procedure, anyway? It's not like I don't know that it will end childbearing for us. That's kind of the point. :p

[meggie]

Yeah, most people disregard the handbook on this one. ;) I think the handbook ought to change. There are people who infer that since it is strongly discouraged, it should not be considered at all. (I was one of these in my orthodox days when I had fewer children.)

 

What is my bishop supposed to tell me about a medical procedure, anyway? It's not like I don't know that it will end childbearing for us. That's kind of the point. :p

 

Now you tell me!

 

Oddly enough, it was the OB who discouraged it. I think he's seen too many people wanting reversals. Plus I'm young or something.

[Veritaserum]

 

 

Now you tell me!

 

Oddly enough, it was the OB who discouraged it. I think he's seen too many people wanting reversals. Plus I'm young or something.

 

We opted for a vasectomy because it is cheaper, less complicated, and less risky than a tubal. I didn't go with dh to his consultation, but from what I understand the doctor just made sure dh understood the risks and permanence of the procedure.

[meggie]

We opted for a vasectomy because it is cheaper, less complicated, and less risky than a tubal. I didn't go with dh to his consultation, but from what I understand the doctor just made sure dh understood the risks and permanence of the procedure.

 

We considered it, but DH has a condition that while not dangerous, might have made it permanently ummmmm....not sure how to phrase this, permanently damaged down there. Now forget you ever read that. :D

[MrsBasil]

We were advised by our priest when we converted to Orthodoxy to not use birth control. There's not an official dogmatic stance against it, from what I understand, though. It's a pastoral issue, not a doctrinal one, from what I've seen. It's not like a priest will say, "This is what you have to do or else." He'll counsel with a couple about the issue.

 

Definitely pastoral. I was counseled to use a non abortifacent method of birth control(barrier, withdrawal, etc.) due to my specific issues with pregnancy/labor/finances when I was preparing to become Orthodox. I did not follow through with that, but my(well...not mine anymore) priest says his advice to me would be the same once I became Orthodox. In fact, he brought it up, that not having anymore children would be a wise decision.

 

Not disagreeing with you at all, just wanted to provide my experience.

[Butter]

Yeah, most people disregard the handbook on this one. ;) I think the handbook ought to change. There are people who infer that since it is strongly discouraged, it should not be considered at all. (I was one of these in my orthodox days when I had fewer children.)

 

What is my bishop supposed to tell me about a medical procedure, anyway? It's not like I don't know that it will end childbearing for us. That's kind of the point. :p

 

My dad was in the bishopric a few years ago and they had some training on that part of the handbook. Members are *not* supposed to go talk to their bishop about it because of what the handbook says. On the contrary, the handbook is there to guide bishops *if* members come talk to him about it. It's a slight difference that some people don't understand and so sy sterilization is not okay at all or you have to get "permission" from the bishop, neither of which are accurate. The bishoprics were told that it is 100% between the husband and wife and the Lord. If couple feels sterilization is the right path for them, it is. The thing is, most people who go to talk about it with their bishop are not sure or not in agreement. It really is a decision you should be 100% sure about and both parts of the couple should be in agreement. I've seen too many cases where one or both of those were not met and it caused problems in the marriage. Regardless, the bishop should not interject his own opinion but should tell the couple exactly what the handbook says. My husband had a vsectomy when my fourth was a year old. I actually felt *very* strongly that that was the thing to do almost immediately after Rory's birth. I didn't mention it until Rory was a year old and through lots of prayer (on my part) I felt that's what God wanted for us. Ian prayed about it himself when I brought it up nd determined it was appropriate. (Interestingly, since then we have learned there were unknown medical issues in me that the vasectomy itself helped - okay I'll just say it - it turns out I am allergic to my husband's sperm - and also a medical condition was discovered that could have made me go blind if I had more pregnancies.) It never even occurred to us to go talk to the bishop about it (though he knows Ian had a V since he is a friend of ours). We were in agreement and had no doubt the Lord had led us to sterilization (and specifically for Ian to have it done). My dad of course knows Ian had a V and that we did not counsel with the bishop, but that's when he told me about the training he had several years ago. We did it just fine.

[GeorgiaGirl160]

Some of us do have medical reasons for caution, and as a non-denominational Christian, I think it's perfectly appropriate.

 

My husband and I are personally convicted that abortion is wrong (including IUDs), but we don't see a moral issue with prevention of conception.

 

Several times during our marriage, I was confined to a wheelchair after major surgery, but was still able to have sex. We were careful not to conceive, even though my reproductive system was fine, because it would otherwise have been extremely difficult for me medically to be pregnant.

 

I had myself permanently sterilized after our second child was born on the advice of my OB/GYN, who said hormonal birth control was negatively impacting my health. Two reasons:

 

1. I was 40 when my second was born. Then I had the surgeries and time in the wheelchair (I can walk again, thank God). By the time all that was over, I was 43. While I may still have been fertile, we felt it was appropriate to stop.

 

2. I have a serious genetic illness that runs in my family. My cousin had Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy. He died when he was 14, and lived almost his entire life in a wheelchair. Not the same illness as Stephen Hawking, but much the same lack of mobility to give you an idea of how my cousin lived.

 

I had been told that I was tested as a child and determined not to be a carrier. My cousin's mother is my mother's sister, so in the absence of testing, I had a statistical one in four chance of being a carrier.

 

While I was pregnant with my first, a boy, I found out that the testing given to me has a high false negative rate and is not considered useful. Oh joy. I was so worried about that and other possibilities carrying my first that my husband changed my password and locked me out of our computer. :-)

 

Our first was fine, thank God. Our second was a daughter, so she cannot have the disease, although she could be a carrier. I have no way to know if I am a carrier, or if my daughter is a carrier under current medical technology. I hope by the time my little girl is old enough to have kids of her own, she will have access to accurate testing.

 

It would be unwise for me to conceive again, in case I had a boy who was afflicted. Duchenne is a terrible disease with no cure. I can't help risks I don't know about, but I can help the ones I do know about.

 

I'm leaving well enough alone. I see no medical difference between preventative birth control and any other medication. God willed that I was born during a time when I have access to insulin, synthroid, and a host of other medications designed to help me with issues I was born with. I see no moral reason in the Bible to refuse modern medicine, nor do I think God willed me to have hypothyroidism during a time when such an illness can be fixed. Why should i not limit my family to a wise size for ourselves, for good reason, if medicine exists to do so?

 

I'm all for the "mind your own business" approach. I ask my kids when they complain about things that are not their business: "Are they sinning against you?" If they're doing something serious that is actually affecting you, then go show them their fault as Jesus instructed and try to resolve things peacefully. We are not called to be doormats. Neither are we called to be buttinskis. If they're not sinning against you (or a helpless third party like a child being abused) then keep your nose out. It's between them and God.

 

GA Cub Mom

[GeorgiaGirl160]

Sorry double post

[Veritaserum]

 

 

My dad was in the bishopric a few years ago and they had some training on that part of the handbook. Members are *not* supposed to go talk to their bishop about it because of what the handbook says. On the contrary, the handbook is there to guide bishops *if* members come talk to him about it.

 

If that's the case, why does the public statement of policy say this?

 

"The Church strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control. Surgical sterilization should be considered only if (1) medical conditions seriously jeopardize life or health or (2) birth defects or serious trauma have rendered a person mentally incompetent and not responsible for his or her actions. Such conditions must be determined by competent medical judgment and in accordance with law. Even then, the persons responsible for this decision should consult with each other and with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of their decision through prayer."

 

"The persons responsible should consult...with their bishop...." Most people don't do this, but that is definitely the official policy.

 

I know many LDS people who believe sterilization as elective birth control is straight-up wrong because of the stated policy ("the church strongly discourages"). I certainly believed that when I was orthodox.

 

Absolutely partners should discuss it and be in agreement. If the policy stated that decisions regarding all forms of birth control, including sterilization, were to be decided solely by the couple, that would be great. If a couple were to then to to their bishop because they wanted his council regarding sterilization, he could tell them that they need to discuss all aspects of the decision and be in agreement before proceeding. :)

[Butter]

Who knows. I can only tell you what the training my dad had told them. There was something about talking to the bishop if you are having trouble making the decision. Some people seriously think they need to ask the bishop about everything (my dad still cringes when he thinks about the time the bishop was out of town and so he was the stand-in - since he was the first counselor - and a couple came in wanting to know if oral sex was okay... my dad wished he could just beam the bishop back into town and get himself right out of there). Interesting... my health issues were not discovered until *after* Ian's vasectomy. One of them we never would have realized until after it because it never occurred to me to mention the problems to my doctor (though if I had, the sperm allergy could have been discovered). FWIW, I used to be one of those people who thought sterilization was straight up wrong. In fact I was pretty darn opposed to any birth control (apart from NFP). Live and learn. That's why it took me a full year to even bring up a vasectomy to Ian. I fought that one hard. Now, with 20/20 hindsight I can see exactly why it was good and necessary.

[Melissa in Australia]

:rofl: