So, ACT/SAT math scores shot down our plans for math and science next year.

[Kim in SouthGa]

You may remember I posted about my son's low SAT math score a couple of months ago (450). I thought he would do better on the ACT, but only got a 17 on the math portion. This knocks him out of doing any math and science dual enrollment classes at the local college, which is what I had planned. So now I need to find a science program. He has had Physical Science, Chemistry, and Biology. Physics is not going to happen-he struggles with math too much, and has no desire for a science career and would be completely unmotivated to even try to do well. I would like to do something a little out of the box. Can something like survival skills/field medicine count as a science class? And how would I go about creating that? Anyone already done it?

Math is a "wait and see". He is finishing Intermediate Algebra over the summer at the local college. If he can take the ACT again in September, they might let him do College Algebra in the fall. They told me he could go ahead and take it anyway, but it just wouldn't count for high school, only college, thus no ACCEL funds and I'm not sure I want to dish out the $500 if it won't count for high school. Well, I am sure:) I don't want to.

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated!

thanks

[Starr]

If he's home schooled how can it not count for high school? Is he getting a public school diploma? If he's ready to take it and it counts for college he would have a college math out of the way. He might like that. :) Otherwise I would use a different book and have him take Intermediate Algebra over again and review week areas, retake the ACT and take College Algebra winter semester. He's doing fine.

[kiana]

Starr, it's more that he wouldn't be able to get it paid for as "high school" -- he could enroll on Mom's dime.

 

Kim, I would finish the Intermediate Algebra and then retake the test. If he does not place into College Algebra, I would look into Algebra 2 programs, but I wouldn't buy anything now.

 

For science, I really don't think survival skills would count as a science. But maybe environmental science, astronomy, geology, botany, zoology, forensic science, meterology, oceanography, agricultural science, wildlife biology would hold some appeal?

[AngieW in Texas]

Have you looked at Hewitt's Conceptual Physics? I'm using it this year with my 14yo who struggled with Algebra I and a 15yo who is taking Algebra I concurrently. It has very little math. It can actually be done with just a solid prealgebra level in math.

[Melabella]

Have you considered GA Virtual School (www.gavirtualschool.org)? It is free to home schoolers, but there are limited spaces/funds. It looks like they are still taking enrollments, though. Here is a list of non-AP Science courses offered :

 

Astronomy

Biology

Chemistry

Earth Systems

Environmental Science

Epidemiology

Forensic Science

Geology

Oceanography

Physical Science

Physics

[Wildcat]

Kim, could your ds take the school's math placement test? Here, the kids who want to dual enroll can take either the ACT, SAT, or the COMPASS test for placement. Maybe he will do better on a different test.

[katilac]

With a 17 on the ACT, and him struggling with math in general, I don't think I would want him to take college algebra in the fall whether they allow him to or not (and a point or two higher probably would not change my mind). I think he would be likely to struggle to the point of possibly failing.

 

Is there another high school level math he can take that would allow you to fit in some algebra review and practice as well? Statistics, number theory, something off of the ladder of progression, so to speak. Seeing math in a different way might help, while still allowing for solidifying those algebra skills. Another year of maturity might help a great deal as well.

[asta]

He's only 16. Why does he have to take College Algebra?

 

 

asta

[JuanitaL]

I would like to do something a little out of the box. Can something like survival skills/field medicine count as a science class? And how would I go about creating that? Anyone already done it?

 

 

How about checking out the Army's Expert Field Medical Badge (EFMB)? http://www.medtrng.net/webtemplate/index.htm Survival skills and field medicine. Since you're in south Georgia, surely you could find someone who qualified and would be willing to "test" him.

[SailorMom]

So - he's 16 and you say he struggles with math..... In your shoes - no way would I put him in college algebra.

My DS who does not struggle in math will be 16 next year as a Sophomore and will only be taking algebra 2/trig. If he does well with that (really, really well) I may have him take college algebra as a DE class his Jr. year. My understanding is that college algebra is more difficult than high school algebra 2 - but I may be wrong?

What math is he taking right now?

As for science, it sounds like he has the required classes and lab sciences as far as college admission is concerned. I mean - I want both of my DS's to have 4 full years of science, but that doesn't mean they actually need it. Not saying your DS shouldn't take a science, but more that you don't necessarily need to do a science class that would be considered a full 'science' class by a high school or a college. It could look more like an elective, perhaps?

[tarahillmom]

First of all don't panic, there is plenty of time to increase his scores. I don't understand the need to do College Algebra now. Until he has a solid foundation in Algebra II- College Algebra (Alg III or Pre-calc level) may only cause more frustration. If you don't feel comfortable teaching this course then I suggest finding a tutor. A high school level pre-calculus, trigonometry, or statistics course may be more his speed after he has demonstrated proficiency in Alg II. Remember at the CC the pace will be much faster than his previous courses. As far as science an Earth Science, if he enjoyed either bio or chem a more advanced level or either. There are physics courses out there that do not require a high level math, so you have options there. I know some schools in GA require 4 sciences, but the fourth is a your pick so find something enjoyable to both of you :lol: I also recommend getting the test prep books and working them over time.

[Kim in SouthGa]

Well, the push to get him into College Algebra for his 12th grade year was that I can't teach him higher level math, and the online/video programs are just not working for him. He needs a live teacher. When I looked into a tutor, it was going to cost around $200 a month, and he can take College Algebra for free through ACCEL and get started on college in the process. So on paper it sounded like the way to go. However, now I'm rethinking things. There is a home school program here that meets twice a week and they will have someone teaching precalc in the fall (if enough people sign up-if not, back to square one). I plan to get him a tutor for the summer so he can finish Algebra II before we send out transcipts to colleges.

I also found an online class at Landry Academy that is for CLEP/ACT Prep Science. They basically study to CLEP Biology and also to ace the science reasoning portion of the ACT. It is a one semester class, so we'll have to follow up with something in the spring. Maybe Creation Science through Landry also. Georgia does require 4 sciences, and I've checked with several colleges and they all say make sure you follow what your state public schools require for high school.

And I'm looking into good SAT prep classes. Any thoughts? Just studying the book seemed to do zilch for him.

[kiana]

I think that the reason studying the book didn't help is that his math knowledge was only really on an algebra 1 level. I think finishing algebra 2 (which he is doing this summer, correct?) and working on precalc will make the book a lot more helpful. Test prep will only really help after the subject knowledge is there.

 

He's taking intermediate algebra over the summer. That's the prereq for college algebra. I would ask the intermediate algebra instructor, towards the end of the class, if he's ready for college algebra. They will be in a great place to judge.

[Kim in SouthGa]

And to clarify, he is now 17-as of yesterday :) and he will be in 12th grade next year.

[Amominfl]

For science courses, you could have him work on some Boy Scout Merit Badges. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx (He doesn't have to be a Boy Scout to do this!) There are a number of them that are science related: Animal Science, Astronomy, Aviation, Bird Study, Chemistry, Composite Materials, Cooking, Energy, Engineering, Environmental Science, Fingerprinting, etc. If you click on any of the badges shown on that link, it will take you to the requirements for that merit badge and includes lots of reference information on the subject.

[asta]

Well, the push to get him into College Algebra for his 12th grade year was that I can't teach him higher level math, and the online/video programs are just not working for him. He needs a live teacher. When I looked into a tutor, it was going to cost around $200 a month, and he can take College Algebra for free through ACCEL and get started on college in the process.

 

You may wish to look at a few different things:

 

* if he is going to go to the community college for a different class, have him utilize the tutoring center for math that he is doing at home (not a math class from the college)

 

* look at the bulletin board at the community college and a local university (if you have one) for students offering tutoring

 

* ask your local public high school math teacher if they have an advanced student who is always "helping" other kids with their work (there are a lot of smart kids/people, but not everyone is good at transferring knowledge), and if that kid may be interesting in a tutoring job. That kid may be interested in a FT math job over the summer (you can get a HUGE amount of math done when that is all you're doing - ask me how I know...)

 

* do a swap with another parent for a subject you excel in

 

* look online for a tutor who does skype tutoring (no, not Khan academy videos, and this is different than regular online stuff)

 

* bite the bullet, adjust the family budget, and get a tutor

 

Where I live, we have/had no access to community college, AP, co op, or any of the other stuff that pretty much most of the HSers here at WTM have. Kid simply has NOT responded to everything I offered in math (I discovered this... late). We now have a tutor who comes to our house twice a week. Pre-calc has taken less than 4 months. He simply needed a person. The fact that he is not having to go at the speed of a class (too slow or fast), is able to clarify concepts, or gloss over stuff that he understands immediately/intuitively has been TOTALLY worth it. This has actually saved him/us time; no driving to and from a school, no having to wait to meet w/ the professor for office hours, etc. It's a matter of how much my son's time and psychological health is worth (and mine, frankly).

 

HTH

 

 

asta

[hsbeth]

Looks like you've received some great advice. I'd second the recommendation for looking at Hewitt's Conceptual Physics for science. Since we're a GA family also, I can share our experience with dual-enrollment/ACCEL and with Georgia Virtual School. If you aren't familiar with the latter, it is separate and different from the full time public charters. You can enroll independently in single or multiple courses without enrolling or attaching yourself. Our oldest took a few classes in 9th and 10th with good results. It's still online learning, but provides some good structure and there are optional online live sessions. You could look into a math or science option through them. Maybe if that local pre-cal class doesn't work out? The GVS classes can be state funded. They include an e-book but we typically purchased a hard copy. Most were very inexpensive via amazon, etc.

 

I'd be hesitant to recommend dual-enrollment if your son is struggling for a few reasons. First, although ACCEL pays tuition you'll still need to cover fees. At our local state uni. this amounts to $320/semester whether they are taking 1 class or a full load. Then add the cost of a text and usually an online access code that will prevent you from getting a used copy. We spent another $150ish for that. It could be that our local is higher than yours, but make sure you're aware of the true sticker price. Our oldest is a strong math student and she still found the pacing challenging. She started the sequence with Pre-Calc but her best friend took College Algebra the same semester and they worked together some. The pacing was quite accelerated and the courses were largely similar. The level of difficulty of the individual problems was significantly higher than those she'd encountered in high school level Pre-Calc. She went in with a 630 SAT/31 ACT so was prepared to have an easy time of it. The online entry system for math was a bit cumbersome also and required a few weeks of adjustment. She also had to work on her graphing calc. skills. She ended up making an A and has continued on in the sequence successfully, but it's not an easy road.

 

GVS has a decent SAT prep class, but since you couldn't start until fall that's probably not helpful. With my two hs students I've found that creating and holding them accountable to a study schedule produces better results. I get mixed results if I get materials and give them free reign. I give them chunks of material to get through each week. I'd pick one test to focus on. From the scores you shared it looks like SAT might be the stronger choice for your son. If you use the blue book he can follow along with Khan Academy videos. Chalkdust also has a good math SAT prep course that might be helpful. You could look into one of those. I assigned my kids a 6-8 wk study schedule. Include several timed practice tests. Sometimes we just did a math or reading section, but other times the whole exam. I've found that this type of practice helps to build mental endurance and eliminate test fatigue. Make sure that he understands why he got practice problems wrong, careful analysis of practice results can help you to hone in on specific problem spots.

 

Really, with the sticker price of college level work (even utilizing ACCEL) you might be able to get several hours of tutoring. I'd try to find a strong student first (less expensive likely) but wouldn't rule out an adult if needed. Summer is likely an ideal time to get a discounted rate as many teachers have some free time, college students are likely to be home, etc.

[katilac]

My library has a great resource that we recently discovered - free online tutoring in EVERY subject! You just log on with your library card number, specify the kind of help you need, and wait for a live tutor to be available. We've never had to wait more than a few minutes.

 

dd14 had been using it for algebra, and it's been a tremendous help. it keeps her from getting 'stuck' and frustrated, they use whiteboard technology so they can work out the problem step by step.

 

We actually have 2 different tutoring centers available this way, so dd even has a choice (they do things in a slightly different way and have different hours).

[Tullia]

You've had good advice; I'd add an ACT suggestion. Buying the score analysis package helped me to find and work on weak areas in math. My son's math scores increased significantly the second time. I don't know if you can order after testing, though.