Now I need math advice for my younger child

[lewelma]

He is 9.5 and has finished SM5 workbooks, and working to finish IP5b. He is getting sick of the same old thing. He wants to learn something NEW. I think, however, that he needs much more practice. He is wobbly on percentages and slow on fractions and decimals -- he understands the concepts but needs more time to practice. So my thought is to start him on something new while he works slowly through IP5b and CWP5.

 

My problem is making sure that I treat him as an individual and not a clone of his brother. He is not passionate about math, but does enjoy it. I just don't want to see a competition between the boys in math level, and I am not convinced that younger ds is an AoPS type of kid. He does get frustrated, and is only persistant if he is really in a groove. I think that he is a normally accellerated kid, but it is really hard not to compare him to older ds. I must be very careful.

 

So, I am looking to develop a program for him. It needs to have variety (possibly even >1 program), it needs to have a decent amount of review (because math concepts take some time to settle in), I would like it to have a bit of an independent element to it so he can learn some good study skills, and honestly, I think it needs to stall him so that he takes a full algebra program at 11 or 12.

 

I have never been wowed by SM6, but we could do that next. I have trialed AoPS preA and although he can understand it with a LOT of help and he does like it, I don't think he is really ready for that level of material. I think he likes it because his brother does. I also trialed him on Jacobs Algebra because the first 5 chapters are really preA, but the little squares representing numbers seemed too abstract to him and he had little passion for it. I also own NEM and Saxon 8/7. yes, I love math books!

 

Today, however, I went to the library to look for graph theory for older, and ran across Mathematics: A Human endeavor by Jacobs. This looks really good. Not too conceptual, very applied, very fun with cool applications, very broad including graph theory, combinatorics, statistics, preA, and geometry. It seems to be a good book for teaching him the new concepts he craves, while putting him in a bit of a holding pattern until he is more ready for Algebra. Has anyone used this? It does state that it is a program designed for kids who don't like math, so I can't quite tell what is missing or not being developed that would make it a program suited to that kind of kid. My kid does like math and is good at it, so I don't want to use an inappropriate book.

 

So, open to any and all suggestions,

 

Ruth in NZ

 

ETA: he is currently doing LoF fractions also.

[quark]

Ruth, I think the Human Endeavor book could work. I had always planned on using it with DS but we just couldn't get to it despite good intentions and when I was next looking at switching resources around for variety, DS for some reason or other decided he didn't want to use it. I respected that and ended up selling the book but with a heavy heart. From what I remember, it was indeed a cool book with lots of nice, extra math tidbits.

 

I'm not sure if you want to pay more for the shipping but I'll go ahead and suggest it anyway. We used Life of Fred and the Key To Workbooks when DS was wobbly on fractions, decimals and percents. He really liked the LOF books (only the LOF F and D&P texts though, I think he found the storyline too repetitive after F and D&P) LOF gave him a solid intro to the concepts, and the Key To Workbooks provided ample practice. Then, to cement the concepts a little more, I got him the Level 2 or maybe it was Level 3, I'm forgetting, Fractions, Decimals and Percents worksheets from Math Mammoth (pdf downloads). Some of the questions were quite challenging for him. We just printed the ones that interested him. He did the MM F, D and P worksheets simultaneously with Algebra 1.

 

ETA: The MM worksheets I bought (didn't use them all):

http://www.mathmammoth.com/fractions_decimals_3.php

http://www.mathmammoth.com/fractions_2.php

http://www.mathmammoth.com/decimals_2.php

http://www.mathmammoth.com/ratios_proportions_problem_solving.php

http://www.mathmammoth.com/percent.php

 

I think the Homeschool Buyers Coop sometimes offers discounted prices for Math Mammoth materials?

[lewelma]

Thanks so much Quark!

 

I forgot to mention that ds is currently using LoF fractions. He likes it, but says that it is all just review, which I know, but he *needs* to practice.

 

If you could choose just one, would you go with the Key to books or MM?

 

I am also doing what we called '10 in 10' when I was teaching high school. I write 10 problems that he needs to review and he does them in 10 minutes. This is working because it is tailored to his needs, but it is a hassle for me!

 

I am glad to hear that your reaction to the Human Endeavor book was the same as mine. Looks like cool stuff, but not overwhelming difficult, and not in the standard sequence.

 

I will go look at the links tomorrow!

 

Thanks!

[Arcadia]

I think, however, that he needs much more practice. He is wobbly on percentages and slow on fractions and decimals

.....

I have never been wowed by SM6, but we could do that next. I also own NEM and Saxon 8/7.

 

For fun revision how about Pizzazz Pre-algebra http://lcms.dadeschools.net/math/Pizzazz%20Books/Pizzazz%20Pre-Algebra.pdf

 

I'll skip SM6 if you have not bought the books and go to NEM. I also use MEP for revision since it is free and PDF format. MEP goes up to Cambridge 'A' levels now so easy to just download and print the topics you want to revise. (http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/)

 

Recent thread about Jacobs Human Endeavor http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/466359-mathematics-a-human-endeavor/

[lewelma]

Thanks for the reminder of MEP. I do like their puzzles. I have SM6, but don't mind skipping it. DS is just really sick of SM and ready for something *new*, not sure if NEM will feel like more of the same.

 

Will look at the pizzazz tomorrow.

 

What I would really like is a main program and then supplements, so he gets the sense of being systematic and not always jumping around.

[Arcadia]

DS is just really sick of SM and ready for something *new*, not sure if NEM will feel like more of the same.

 

It could be SM5 & 6 though. My older was bored and sped through those. My younger day dreams now at SM5. NEM feels like the same to me looking at the sample pages. A thread about NEM and AoPS http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/396364-nem-to-aops/

I'm not sure what my younger would be using. If he is not ready for algebra, I'll just rely on my stockpile of math circle problems to entertain him.

[quark]

I would choose the Level 3 MM for challenge (it might be easy for your 9.5yo though? DS used it at 7yo+). Key To was good for consistent practice mostly but wasn't challenging. Let me think some more...it's past midnight now and I if have another idea I'll post it later in the morning (i.e. about 8 hrs from now!).

[quark]

Quickly, before I forget! :) James Tanton usually has some interesting materials. I found the following pdfs, again quickly, without really looking at how simple/ difficult they are but I have found in the past when we used his materials briefly, that he always had something interesting to say so I'm including the links that I can find to free pdfs here. Hope they help and apologies if they are too simple/ not useful:

http://www.jamestant...action-tree.pdf

http://www.jamestant...tions-guide.pdf

 

Also wondering whether the Elements of Mathematics series would be interesting to your DS. They don't have fractions/ decimals etc available yet but I thought I'll just put it out there because you mentioned he is sick of SM and wants something "new". This series seems quite different from any curriculum I've seen. Hoping Dana or someone else who has used the online courses or the books will comment to say if it could be useful for your DS.

http://www.elementsofmathematics.com/

Not cheap...15 interactive courses and each is $60-ish and I think each one is a quarter-long but I could be wrong.

ETA: Only 2 or maybe 3 of 15 are currently available...I think they plan to add the rest gradually.

[ebunny]

Quickly, before I forget! :) James Tanton usually has some interesting materials. I found the following pdfs, again quickly, without really looking at how simple/ difficult they are but I have found in the past when we used his materials briefly, that he always had something interesting to say so I'm including the links that I can find to free pdfs here. Hope they help and apologies if they are too simple/ not useful:

http://www.jamestant...action-tree.pdf

http://www.jamestant...tions-guide.pdf

 

 

I love this! Thanks Q!

[Dmmetler]

I think it's that eventually, SM starts to feel very repetitive. My DD got to that state as well, although for her, it started at about 4B, which was when she demanded to accelerate. Using Fred Fractions/Decimals and Percents, plus SM 5A-6B in sections (mostly the IP/CWP) worked pretty well for her, and she continued with some SM problems from 6A-6B along with Fred Pre-Algebra, plus other stuff. So far, Fred seems to fit her needs while allowing a lot of room for additional problems and resources to come in. She is easily capable of spending several hours at a stretch on fairly difficult problems and to do quite a lot at one time-but it apparently has to be a range and variety of problems, from multiple resources. Put it all in one, and it's too much.

[Dana]

Also wondering whether the Elements of Mathematics series would be interesting to your DS. They don't have fractions/ decimals etc available yet but I thought I'll just put it out there because you mentioned he is sick of SM and wants something "new". This series seems quite different from any curriculum I've seen. Hoping Dana or someone else who has used the online courses or the books will comment to say if it could be useful for your DS.

http://www.elementsofmathematics.com/

Not cheap...15 interactive courses and each is $60-ish and I think each one is a quarter-long but I could be wrong.

ETA: Only 2 or maybe 3 of 15 are currently available...I think they plan to add the rest gradually.

 

 

The EM books (now online courses) are cool. They're solid math & I think are on the level in terms of topics/concepts of AoPS... but that's from just looking briefly at AoPS. A friend has a son in a math circle with someone who did the MEGSSS program (which used the EM books) and now teaches for AoPS, so the EM material will definitely prepare you for higher-level math.

 

The drawback is that there really isn't much practice overall. I have the EM books. My son did Ch 1 (operational systems) during the time it was free. I compared to the text & they did leave out a few problems. When I did the MEGSSS program, our instructor added in Pizzazz worksheets (from Algebra with Pizzazz) for factoring so we could do enough practice.

(Incidentally, although Prealg with Pizzazz is linked above, it is under copyright still...but it can be tricky to buy your own copies... and pricey! I use some worksheets with the classes I teach. Prealg has some decent ones with fractions, decimals, and percents.)

 

For just extra drill & to be different than your older son, the thought I had was using InterAct math software. (I've taught with the MyMathLab program for about a decade now and really like it and the software.) Pick any of the prealgebra texts or basic college math texts & assign online work. "Help Me Solve This" or "View an Example" will give an explanation if he forgets how to do a topic. You can see the check marks on a section before he shuts down the screen because no work is saved.

 

If you pick the text: Jordan: Integrated Arithmetic and Basic Algebra (I liked this text - good explanations)

Percentages are Ch 8

Fractions are Ch 6 & 7 (what I like especially here is that they use rational numbers for fractions but then in the same chapter show how it works with rational expressions... including polynomials that have to be factored... may or may not be cool to show)

Decimals are Ch R (Sections 5 & 6 - a brief review of fractions in Ch R Section 4 as well)

 

If you pick the text: Lial: Developmental Mathematics 2e (I don't like this text...but practice problems are practice problems!)

Percentages are Ch 6 (they show solving percent equations by using proportions in section 4, with the percent equation in section 5... my students said I do these completely differently...so sometimes the "help me solve this" isn't as helpful)

Fractions are Ch 2 & 3 with a LOT of practice

Decimals are Ch 4 (also have a lot of practice)

[wapiti]

If you could choose just one, would you go with the Key to books or MM?

 

 

I would choose the Level 3 MM for challenge (it might be easy for your 9.5yo though? DS used it at 7yo+). Key To was good for consistent practice mostly but wasn't challenging.

 

 

I agree that you might try MM Fractions & Decimals 3 and Percent , and depending on what he's had in SM, you might consider throwing in Ratios, Proportions & Problem Solving. The downside would be that fractions, decimals and percent will be a (potentially boring) review of what he's had in SM rather than something new, though MM will have concept instruction, word problems, and generally deeper thinking that Key-to does not have. IMO Key-to is rather rote/procedural (and more boring than MM), though maybe that's the type of practice you're looking for? I'd guess he would not need to do the MM books in their entirety in order to review and cement his understanding of these topics. Maybe you could choose pages to do in between something new and more interesting. Another thought - suppose he did the fraction, decimal and percent problems in Alcumus? There's a setting for difficulty level someplace that can be adjusted if necessary.

[quark]

I agree that you might try MM Fractions & Decimals 3 and Percent , and depending on what he's had in SM, you might consider throwing in Ratios, Proportions & Problem Solving. The downside would be that fractions, decimals and percent will be a (potentially boring) review of what he's had in SM rather than something new, though MM will have concept instruction, word problems, and generally deeper thinking that Key-to does not have. IMO Key-to is rather rote/procedural, though maybe that's the type of practice you're looking for? I'd guess he would not need to do the MM books in their entirety in order to review and cement his understanding of these topics. Maybe you could choose pages to do in between something new and more interesting.

 

This is what we did with MM! :)

[kiwik]

MM avoids postage.

[lewelma]

She is easily capable of spending several hours at a stretch on fairly difficult problems and to do quite a lot at one time-but it apparently has to be a range and variety of problems, from multiple resources. Put it all in one, and it's too much.

This sounds like my ds. But I really don't want for him to just dabble. I want him to have a sense of moving through new material. I'm thinking that I could have him do something like:

15 minutes for 1 chapter of Fred

30 minutes Khan academy review

30 minutes new material using some book yet to be determined.

 

What has happened with SM is that he does some calculating and some geometry each math period (so working through 2 different sections concurrently), then some review of previous sections, a bit of IP, and then a challenger or 2. The variety keeps him going; however, and this is a big however, he cannot do this independently because it is too bitsy. Too many books that look all the same, and flipping from here to there. I really want him to work through a book, and know that he just does the next thing as it will help with his independence.

[lewelma]

For fun revision how about Pizzazz Pre-algebra http://lcms.dadescho...Pre-Algebra.pdf

 

WOW!! This is exactly what my ds needs! I think you win the prize! :thumbup:

 

Do you know how the 'middle school' books overlap with the 'prealgebra' book?

[Arcadia]

Do you know how the 'middle school' books overlap with the 'prealgebra' book?

 

I don't know how the prealgebra one overlaps (prealgebra - 7th grade, algebra - 8th grade in California)

There are seven Pizzazz books for algebra in my own thread (too lazy to copy) http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/465758-math-workbooks-links-compilation/

[avilma]

For fun revision how about Pizzazz Pre-algebra http://lcms.dadescho...Pre-Algebra.pdf

 

 

Thanks for the link. I had never heard of that series. It looks great.

[freerange]

I was going to suggest MEP year 7 as being a good fit for what you describe, but your comment about the pizzazz preA has me doubting that. Unless you're meaning using pizzazz to review whilst using something else for new topics? MEP could work for that, perhaps. Pick out the new topics to do interspersed with the review. Or you could pick out some fun activities from the Nrich website or Brian Bolt or Tony Gardiner's books.

[Grover]

thank you for the links to the pizzazz books, they're exactly what I need!

[boscopup]

Really liking those Pizzazz books! Thanks so much!!!

[lewelma]

I was going to suggest MEP year 7 as being a good fit for what you describe, but your comment about the pizzazz preA has me doubting that. Unless you're meaning using pizzazz to review whilst using something else for new topics?

 

 

Sorry to confuse, I need 2 things -- a reveiw book and a new topic book. I think my plan is to take 2 years to get through Pizzazz preA and Mathematics: a Human Endeavor. That combination looks fun and doable, and teaches him new material without pushing into Algebra.

 

Thanks everyone for you help!

 

Ruth in NZ

[mathwonk]

I love anything by Jacobs. he emphasizes mathematical substance, pedagogical focus, and humor. What else can you ask for?