I finally understand my old math teachers' frustrations

[jenn-]

I was the child that notoriously had points taken off for failing to show my work. I considered it stupid since I could do the steps in my head and get the right answer. Now I understand. My DD is a struggling math student to say the least and as much as I wish she could do steps in her head, she really cannot. She is working in pre-algebra right now and she keeps trying to do steps in her head and getting things wrong. She will try them a couple of times before getting mad and asking for help. 9 times out of 10, if she would have written it down step by step, she would have gotten it done correctly on the first try. My other favorite is when she gets really mad and erases everything and then expects me to figure out where she went wrong.

[Ellie]

And so now that you realize it, are you requiring her to show her work? :-)

[jenn-]

And so now that you realize it, are you requiring her to show her work? :-)

 

 

Definitely on the ones she gets wrong. I don't make her show every.single.step like my teachers wanted, but most of them.

[Ellie]

 

Definitely on the ones she gets wrong. I don't make her show every.single.step like my teachers wanted, but most of them.

 

 

Girl, she needs to do every.single.one, every.single.lesson. The object is to find the mistake before she gets it wrong and turns it in.

[DianeW88]

 

Girl, she needs to do every.single.one, every.single.lesson. The object is to find the mistake before she gets it wrong and turns it in.

:iagree: If she's a struggling math student, she needs to write out every problem...every time.

[Hen]

yeah, had that problem here. I had success, though it took repeating over and over again and again....but I keep explaining that besides getting marked wrong by their professors in college for not showing their work, that it is also a kindness they do for themselves, that often if they get a problem wrong, if they show their work, they can often go back and see where the error is and fix it and thus not have to re-do the whole problem. I keep repeating and eventually they seem to believe me.

 

My bonus student had a natural Math ability which we praised to the skies, since he had learning disabilities...and then we created a monster because he wanted to continue to wow us by doing things in his head. I really had to keep reminding him over and over till he finally started showing his work.

[tex-bex]

I loved math. I loved showing my work. I am drilling it into my son right now! So important. :)

[fairfarmhand]

I agree w/pp's that she should get in the habit of showing all of every problem. This will help her in the long run, as the more she practices (and SEES) the steps it takes to get things right, the higher likelihood that she will get more correct.

 

Also in college, if a prof. sees that you showed your work and did the process right but made a stupid mistake, often they will give you partial credit. Mom, you may want to start this policy to help her understand how important it is to show work. And as algebra gets harder and harder with many more multi-step problems, she will want to make this an all of the time habit.

[MFG]

 

 

Definitely on the ones she gets wrong. I don't make her show every.single.step like my teachers wanted, but most of them.

 

Until she starts showing her work, I would not even correct it, so she would not know which ones were wrong. Teaching math is teaching a thinking process. Getting the correct answer is incidental to that. If the process and the computations are correct the answer will be right. But it is possible to have a fluke problem where the thinking is all messed up but somehow the answer comes out right. In that case, the answer is 'right' but the problem is still 'wrong'.

[justasque]

She should be writing every step, not only on the ones she gets wrong, but on all of them. Part of what you're supposed to be learning in pre-algebra is the *process* of problem-solving. If you have good notation/process skills, it will help you as the problems get harder later on. The *process* of working left-to-right, writing down the full equation each time as you change it, helps you keep track of things and also helps you to organize your thoughts. I tell my students about college-level problems that take multiple pages to solve - you can only do that if you have good notation skills. In addition, sometimes in algebra you *don't know* when you start the problem *how* you are going to go about solving it. Nonetheless, if you have the skills, you can start with what you know - write down the knowns, the unknowns, the relevant formulas, a diagram, etc. Often once you've done that, you'll get the "aha" moment which will help you to see the solution path.

 

Now by "every step" I don't mean she can't take shortcuts if she knows why they work, etc. But she should have an organized written approach to solving each problem. If you give test grades, be *brutal* about taking off points for every dropped negative, every copied-the-problem-wrong, every misread-my-handwriting mistake. After the test, point out how many points she lost for each of the above, compared to how many were lost for not knowing how to do the problem. Explain how that works in classes for other teachers (high school, college).

 

The longer a kid goes without notation, the harder it is for them. And of course the brighter the kid, the longer they can resist. Hang in there mom!

[jenn-]

When you all say write out every step what do you mean exactly (remember I never did this)? This is an example off the top of my head.

 

Literally every step

4(2*2)^2+10*2-10=

4(4)^2+10*2-10=

4(16)+10*2-10=

64+20-10=

84-10= 74

 

vs. what I expect

4(2*2)^2+10*2-10=

4(16)+20-10=

64+20-10= 74

[AK_Mom4]

 

vs. what I expect

4(2*2)^2+10*2-10=

4(16)+20-10=

64+20-10= 74

 

What you expect would be fine here. What ISN'T ok would be:

74

 

Or what DD would write:

7

 

Because she got distracted halfway thru.

 

It just gets more important to show steps the farther along you move in math. The more complex the problem, the easier it is to get tripped up. If you get to the end and find you have a bad answer, you can back back thru the steps and find the error.

[thebacabunch]

My dd can get most problems done in her head, but I MAKE her show her work because I can catch her errors so quickly. ALso, as math gets harder you have to show your work so you don't get lost halfway through the problem. Often my dd doesn't read ALL of the directions and sometimes she will finish an equation only to discover that the question actually had to do with showing a certain step of the problem and not doing the whole thing. She gets those wrong ALL THE TIME!

[jenn-]

What you expect would be fine here. What ISN'T ok would be:

74

 

Or what DD would write:

7

 

Because she got distracted halfway thru.

 

It just gets more important to show steps the farther along you move in math. The more complex the problem, the easier it is to get tripped up. If you get to the end and find you have a bad answer, you can back back thru the steps and find the error.

 

 

Our DD's must be related. Yesterday's meltdown was over the fact that she was never getting the problem right if she kept writing down -84+7=-7 in her next step instead of -77. She seriously missed this several times.

[jenn-]

My dd can get most problems done in her head, but I MAKE her show her work because I can catch her errors so quickly. ALso, as math gets harder you have to show your work so you don't get lost halfway through the problem. Often my dd doesn't read ALL of the directions and sometimes she will finish an equation only to discover that the question actually had to do with showing a certain step of the problem and not doing the whole thing. She gets those wrong ALL THE TIME!

 

 

I can see this being a problem in the future. She has already shown that she has problems reading directions. Less so now that she takes her ADD meds daily, but definitely still an issue.

[justasque]

When you all say write out every step what do you mean exactly (remember I never did this)? This is an example off the top of my head.

 

Literally every step

4(2*2)^2+10*2-10=

4(4)^2+10*2-10=

4(16)+10*2-10=

64+20-10=

84-10= 74

 

vs. what I expect

4(2*2)^2+10*2-10=

4(16)+20-10=

64+20-10= 74

 

 

I'd be fine with the second, as long as 95% of the time it is done accurately. That's the key. For a kid still struggling with things like * vs ^, then every little step is needed. It will be different for every kid, based on their own strengths and weaknesses. They should get to the point where they can self-monitor. That's why it helps to point out how many points are lost for mistakes because of bad notation.

[Dana]

But it is possible to have a fluke problem where the thinking is all messed up but somehow the answer comes out right. In that case, the answer is 'right' but the problem is still 'wrong'.

 

And I just deducted points from a student's test for this.

[jenn-]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. Starting Thursday, I will be stricter on showing her work in a logical sense. Tomorrow she gets to go get her bones scanned for her back and hopefully a x-ray for her ankle that she sprained/broken tonight at the gym.