Baylor & Furman & Hope -- experience?

[Gwen in VA]

Dd is looking at some colleges that I know NOTHING about -- Baylor University, Hope College, and Furman.

 

We have spent a fair amount of time poking around on the websites, but I would appreciate hearing about any experiences any of you have had.

 

Did you visit the schools? What did you think? Are there any strengths or weaknesses that wouldn't show up on the college website that we should be aware of?

 

Trying to get info about colleges you know NOTHING about and are far away is a daunting process!

[Tamarind]

Well, my daughter is visiting Hope College in early March! What in particular do you want to know about Hope?

[texasmama]

I live not too far from Baylor University and almost attended there as an undergrad. It is a solid, Christian, private college located in a small, college town. It has a good reputation "around these parts" academically and otherwise. Waco is a very much a college town. My dad was born there. My brother attended aircraft mechanic school at a technical program in Waco in the 90's. I would feel good about any of my kids attending Baylor.

[dirty ethel rackham]

My son is freshman at Hope and he LOVES it. This is my brilliant kid who stuck his head in the sand every time I talked about college because he didn't want to face being on his own. I have never seen him so confident and comfortable with himself.

 

He loves that it is a small school, but not too small for his taste. His professors know him by name and are very welcoming. Classes are participatory and engaging.

 

He chose Hope because they are very strong in undergraduate research. Their philosophy is that you learn by doing. He is likely to go to grad school and beyond in biology, so having the opportunity to do research early on is essential. He is in their Honors Biology doing phage research for HHMI right now and has applied for summer research positions (paid.) There is a ton of summer research opportunities on campus, plus they have arrangements with other organizations. They have excellent, modern science facilities. On the rare occasion when there is a need for something specialized equipment that they don't have, they take a field trip to a nearby university. Next month, his phage lab will be taking a field trip to University of Western Michigan to do some work that they can't do in their lab.

 

Students are well-prepared for life beyond Hope such as grad school, med school, job placement. One thing he likes about the bio department is that it is not dominated by pre-med students. At other schools we looked at, they placed much more focus and energy on the pre-med majors that the others seemed to be an afterthought.

 

He likes the fact that it is a "dry" campus. While that doesn't mean that there isn't ever any drinking, it is not out in the open, which means he doesn't encounter it. He wanted a peer group that wasn't focused on alcohol and he got that.

 

The dorms are not terribly modern, but they are in very good condition (partially because drinking isn't big on campus.) The college owns many cottages for student housing in addition to the dorms (and you can still buy a meal plan when living in the cottages.) Plus, they are building more housing.

 

The food is decent, one of the best we experienced ... a reasonable amount of variety, plus they appear to be very willing to work with people who have special dietary needs. My son is allergic to milk, so he can always find milk-free options. They even have his favorite rice milk in the cafeteria. But, like anything, he does get tired of it after a while. They have vegetarian/vegan as well as gluten-free options.

 

While there is a greek system on campus, he doesn't feel like it dominates or overpowers the social scene. He doesn't actually know anyone in the Greek system, but, then again, he is a science geek so he is among the group least likely to join.

 

It is a Christian university (associated with the Reformed Church of America). They have non-denominational services and Chapel each week. Chapel is not required. However, it is packed every week. Students who are not religious (or who do not follow their flavor of Christianity) do not feel out of place. We are Catholic and they have a Catholic Student organization and the local RC church is a 6 block walk from my son's dorm.

 

Some criticisms I have heard is that it is a conservative campus but compared to most university campuses, that isn't saying much:).

 

One thing that disconcerted me a bit was the advising portion. Over the summer, when the accepted student picks classes, they do so on their own based upon a guide book that outlines the gen. ed. requirements and information specific to them like their major and what they may have placed out of. At first, my son expected more hand-holding. The guidebook says that since they accepted that student, they expect the student to be able to figure it out. Their first-year seminar teacher is their advisor for Freshman year. This person may not have a background in the student's major, but they do refer them to department heads in their prospective major for advice if needed. I guess they don't actually formally declare a major until the end of Freshman year. They are then appointed an advisor in their major.

 

If you have any more questions, I'll be happy to ask my son.

[Gwen in VA]

Thank you so much! The descriptions were most helpful! They help me "see" the schools in a way that photos and course descriptions can't.

 

Both Baylor and Hope sound great! We hope to visit Hope over the summer (yes, I know that summer visits aren't great, but dd's schedule means that is our only option). We keep dithering about Baylor, but the description here means it will stay on the list!

[nancy in nj]

We visited Furman twice, once for a general tour and the 2nd time for a discovery day type event which had a formal presentation from admissions, a performance by one of their singing groups and a departmental fair where my daughter had the opportunity to speak with representatives from various academic departments.

 

The campus is absolutely gorgeous and the academic buildings (especially the science labs) were extremely impressive. We were the only people there for our summer tour and the tour guide took us around in a golf cart. While the campus touts its proximity to Greenville, which is a very nice upscale small city with a lot of great restaurants and stuff downtown, you would definitely need a car on campus to get there easily.

 

Overall, we found the descriptions in the various college books to be very accurate. We definitely got the sense that the faculty are very involved with the students and that the school supports the students in finding opportunities. We also definitely got the impression that the reputation as "the country club of the South" and "the Furman bubble" are accurate.

 

My daughter submitted an application to Furman (no app. fee) as a safety, but then didn't have any interest in making a return visit for the mandatory interview with their homeschool admissions rep. so she never actually completed her application to do's and let the application go inactive. During the fall, Chapel Hill had moved up in her pecking order and she in general changed her preference away from small LAC's to larger research universities.

 

Overall, if you are looking for a small LAC, it is worth a visit. However, if you are looking for the same caliber of students you would find at W & L or Davidson, Furman will probably not be a good fit. If you are hoping to get generous AP credit, dig into it...I was never clear that the credits satisfied their distribution requirements and our private tour guide admitted that he didn't know anybody who was able to graduate early due to AP credits, although he was premed. Also, they no longer give as many of the generous merit aid packages they did in the past. They say they are changing their focus, but there are rumors locally that their endowment took a huge hit in the financial downturn.

 

Nancy

[womenfly]

seekinghim45 (and anyone else with knowledge on this topic!),

I have a son (current junior) intererested in Mechanical Engineering. We visited Baylor last year when he was a sophomore - very casually, and in all honesty - it was only because we happened to be in the area and he had yet to really see a college campus. As it turned out - we had such a great experience that as we left he commented, "I think I could go to school here!"

 

One large draw for him is that we felt like personal interaction with staff was prevalent and important. One concern is that my son feels that hands-on experience for engineers is extremely important. He would like to co-op and is also interested in a couple of schools with strong co-op programs (1 mandatory, 1 voluntary but very strong). My understanding is that at Baylor - there is an optional (though strongly recommended) summer internship for engineering students.

 

Do you have any experience in terms of how much assistance Baylor provides students in obtaining summer internships? And if students are able to do multiple internships?

 

I do realize that my son can (and will) call the school to ask these questions, but sometimes personal experience speaks the loudest.

 

(oh - and I just cheered on the Baylor ladies as they beat UConn the other night! yipee!)

[FaithManor]

Hope College is a WONDERFUL school. It has a truly stellar reputation here in Michigan. It's a lovely town, lovely part of Michigan, the people are friendly, the environment is excellent. It is a serious school for serious students. I really can't think of many negatives other than if one is needing a university for a wider range of options or would prefer the bigger college feel.

 

Now, I'll warn you that when I say serious college for serious students, I mean that very strongly. It's competitive, selective, and well, just plain choosy.

 

I highly recommend this school if the environment Ethel Rackham described is a good fit for your student.

Don't let sticker shock turn you away. If memory serves, they are pretty good with their merit aid. The sticker price is not the final "cough it up" price if your student has the stats and accomplishments to get in.

 

Faith

[creekland]

We visited Furman twice, once for a general tour and the 2nd time for a discovery day type event which had a formal presentation from admissions, a performance by one of their singing groups and a departmental fair where my daughter had the opportunity to speak with representatives from various academic departments.

 

The campus is absolutely gorgeous and the academic buildings (especially the science labs) were extremely impressive. We were the only people there for our summer tour and the tour guide took us around in a golf cart. While the campus touts its proximity to Greenville, which is a very nice upscale small city with a lot of great restaurants and stuff downtown, you would definitely need a car on campus to get there easily.

 

Overall, we found the descriptions in the various college books to be very accurate. We definitely got the sense that the faculty are very involved with the students and that the school supports the students in finding opportunities. We also definitely got the impression that the reputation as "the country club of the South" and "the Furman bubble" are accurate.

 

My daughter submitted an application to Furman (no app. fee) as a safety, but then didn't have any interest in making a return visit for the mandatory interview with their homeschool admissions rep. so she never actually completed her application to do's and let the application go inactive. During the fall, Chapel Hill had moved up in her pecking order and she in general changed her preference away from small LAC's to larger research universities.

 

Overall, if you are looking for a small LAC, it is worth a visit. However, if you are looking for the same caliber of students you would find at W & L or Davidson, Furman will probably not be a good fit. If you are hoping to get generous AP credit, dig into it...I was never clear that the credits satisfied their distribution requirements and our private tour guide admitted that he didn't know anybody who was able to graduate early due to AP credits, although he was premed. Also, they no longer give as many of the generous merit aid packages they did in the past. They say they are changing their focus, but there are rumors locally that their endowment took a huge hit in the financial downturn.

 

Nancy

 

 

I definitely agree with nancy. We toured Furman and really felt the "country club" aspect of it. The campus is gorgeous, people are friendly, and overall it was a nice enough school that middle son applied and was accepted. They were the worst with merit/financial aid for my high stats guy - by far, so were quickly cut from the list, but I'm not sure if he would have gone there anyway as he fell in love with Research Us and all they offer. Furman also didn't offer nearly the depth in neuroscience that research schools do.

 

Furman is a good choice if you want small classes, can afford it, and want the traditional LAC experience in a gorgeous setting (bubble style - NOT urban at all even though Greenville is close). The students were all happy, the courses seemed rigorous, and graduates go on and do things.

[creekland]

Now, I'll warn you that when I say serious college for serious students, I mean that very strongly. It's competitive, selective, and well, just plain choosy.

 

Faith

 

 

They list their acceptance rate at 82% and collegeboard says 85%. That doesn't usually mean competitive/selective... but I will say I've heard good things about the school in general. They just aren't that difficult to get in to which does NOT mean they aren't good - it just means they are self-selecting with apps.

 

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/hope-college

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

Don't let sticker shock turn you away. If memory serves, they are pretty good with their merit aid. The sticker price is not the final "cough it up" price if your student has the stats and accomplishments to get in.

 

Faith

Actually, Hope is a more moderately priced LAC compared to the other schools ds looked at. They are generous with merit aid... their top merit scholarship is about 60% of tuition, so they do not offer any merit full rides. Since we didn't qualify for any other financial aid this year, I don't know how they are to work with as far as financial need.

 

 

They list their acceptance rate at 82% and collegeboard says 85%. That doesn't usually mean competitive/selective... but I will say I've heard good things about the school in general. They just aren't that difficult to get in to which does NOT mean they aren't good - it just means they are self-selecting with apps.

 

https://bigfuture.co...ch/hope-college

 

While they show a high acceptance rate (which categorizes them as "less selective"), they have a very high caliber of students. I compared them to the local LAC in our town where my son took many classes during his high school career. Our local LAC showed a 65% acceptance rate ("somewhat selective"), but the caliber of students he met there were definitely not on par with those he deals with at Hope.

 

(Yay - I finally figured out how to multi-quote!)

[creekland]

While they show a high acceptance rate (which categorizes them as "less selective"), they have a very high caliber of students. I compared them to the local LAC in our town where my son took many classes during his high school career. Our local LAC showed a 65% acceptance rate ("somewhat selective"), but the caliber of students he met there were definitely not on par with those he deals with at Hope.

 

(Yay - I finally figured out how to multi-quote!)

 

:iagree: This is why I emphasized that they are self-selecting rather than lower caliber. There are some good schools out there with higher stats and higher acceptance rates - those schools tend to appeal mainly to students who get accepted. One should always check the stats of incoming students and the admission rates to get a feel for the school.

 

I think Hope being in Michigan rather than closer to high population states lends to their self-selection stats. Put the same school in a different location and you'd likely see more apps --> lower acceptance rate.

[FaithManor]

 

They list their acceptance rate at 82% and collegeboard says 85%. That doesn't usually mean competitive/selective... but I will say I've heard good things about the school in general. They just aren't that difficult to get in to which does NOT mean they aren't good - it just means they are self-selecting with apps.

 

https://bigfuture.co...ch/hope-college

 

Yes, I should have qualified that. When I meant choosy, what I meant was that their reputation is well enough known here in Michigan that kids who do not have high stats and pretty awesome transcripts with extracurriculars do not apply. Their applicant pool is self-limiting. To the average student (especially in my neck of the woods), Hope appears to be selective because, well, they know they would never be considered if they bothered to apply. But, then my local high school churned out a whomping ACT average of 19 last year, so yeah...these two worlds are very, very far apart. Sorry for not being clearer as to how the selectivity actually happens. Sometimes I forget ya'll don't know "Michiganese" when it comes to education.

 

It's kind of the same thing with MTU. On the surface, they don't appear to be selective due to their acceptance rates. However, being a rather unique school and one that looks very, very heavily at specific types of accomplishments, it limits the applicant pool naturally. Sure, they'd love to accept someone with a 34 on the ACT, but if that same kid didn't have any math or science accomplishments, or demonstrated passions outside of just sports (well, with the exception of hockey...they do love their hockey up there! LOL), etc. then it's a waste of an application. Being that far north, I can honestly say that only the geeky, science freak, engineering techie, nerd :D is going to be interested and that is really who they want.

 

Again, sorry for the confusion. I wasn't thinking in terms of application/acceptance statistics.

 

Ethel, you are right that there are other LAC's charging a bit more. Again, seeing it from a Michigan economy perspective. It's still a big sticker price because median income has dropped so much and an awful lot of families see that price tag and do not stop to consider need or merit based aid. They just automatically assume they can't afford it and I wouldn't want anyone else to make that mistake if their child is a qualified applicant.

 

Faith

[Jane in NC]

You can read more about Hope in Colleges that Change Lives.

 

My best friend's daughter is a Hope grad. She had a great LAC experience including work as a teaching assistant while an undergrad. It is my understanding that Hope is purchasing buildings in downtown Holland and turning them into student housing, etc. They are very invested in the community and thus have good "town and gown" relations.

[Gwen in VA]

Your replies have been really helpful. All three colleges sound they like merit further investigation.

 

It's funny -- I had never heard of Hope until I read CTCL about eight years ago, but since then I have bumped into many people who have raved about it!

 

I'm disappointed about the amount of merit aid being given shrinking. I know several people who have full-tuition scholarships to Furman, but they all graduated high school several years ago. Given the economy, the shrinkage makes sense, but it's too bad for those of us who still have kids facing college!

[LNC]

My husband and I are Baylor grads. We live in NC, but if my kids can get National Merit finalist, they will go there. :) Seriously, they offer full tuition for NMF, and that is the only way my twin and I were able to go. Great experience, we love Baylor!

[Nissi]

We haven't made the final decision yet. Still waiting to hear from a couple of schools. Since ds.1 is a National Merit Finalist and since Baylor offers other scholarships based on merit it is on the top of our list.

[Nscribe]

All I can contribute is that Furman has a pretty strong alumni network. I have no experience with the school personally, but have known people who did and it always struck me the way they seemed connected long after leaving college.