Chronological WTM Style History and AP Exams - How Did You Do Both?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

If you mostly stuck to chronological study of history but still had you kids take and do well (4-5's) on AP history exams what did this look like?

 

Did you follow your chronological plan and add a study guide?

Did you try to follow an AP syllabus at the same time as chronological study?

 

Did you prioritize the AP sequence and add in some other materials?

 

I'd like my kids to have the AP exam scores but I feel like the content can be somewhat rushed and superficial (especially the World History syllabus examples I've seen).

[swimmermom3]

Sebastian, thank you for asking this question as I am struggling with the implementation of a similar plan. We have the disadvantage of being a semester short since ds only came back home two weeks ago.

 

I have ordered my third world history text, but I don't think that is an answer for the dry presentation of the material. Resources like SWB's books can bring a more intimate, human element to the text, but I have a difficult time fitting everything in.

 

We are covering the ancient and classic worlds over the next semester and in addition to reading the text and taking notes, we are listening to the TC lectures from History of the Ancient World: A Global Perspective. The essay and DBQ requirements are dictating our focus for composition. Of course some of the literature choices also serve as primary source work.

 

One thing I am going to explore further is questioning a good friend of Sailor Dude's who is taking AP World History as a freshman. My ds was kvetching about the amount of work he is doing and she told him that she didn't have to do any reading for the class. :scared: When I see teacher's websites that contain chapter notes for the text, I have often wondered if more students are just memorizing the material on the websites and in the prep books without doing the work.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I was reading the commentary about the essays from the 2012 exam. The essays seemed rather finicky, but what especially caughty eye was that the mean scores were 1.5-2.5 out of a possible 9.

[swimmermom3]

I was reading the commentary about the essays from the 2012 exam. The essays seemed rather finicky, but what especially caughty eye was that the mean scores were 1.5-2.5 out of a possible 9.

 

 

I had not seen the mean scores, although I am not surprised. I did pull one of the examples where three comparison and contrast essays were shown and then a breakdown of the scoring. I let ds read the essays and then make his own assessments. For me, the whole AP process feels like walking a tight wire as I have been vocal about not teaching to a test in all the time I have been homeschooling and yet, in some ways that is exactly what the AP is, especially world history. We are using the APWH course to prepare for the demands of AP European History and I should know by Tuesday if we can pursue our four-year plan.

 

I hope you gets some other posts. There has to be a way to pull both methods together in a satisfactory fashion. I am just hurtling along totally blind.

[redsquirrel]

I asked a similar question in SWB's thread titled "Got Questions for me?" I vote (can I vote?) that you put your question there. I really, really want to know what other people have done.

 

I do have one friend who got her kids through several AP tests (with great scores) and she pretty much abandoned the classical model in order to master the material for the test.

[snowbeltmom]

I'd like my kids to have the AP exam scores but I feel like the content can be somewhat rushed and superficial (especially the World History syllabus examples I've seen).

 

I don't have any suggestions, but I was speaking recently with the head of the history department from one of the top private schools in our area. He says that the school does not offer any history APs for the exact reason cited above by Sebastian.

[8filltheheart]

I don't have an answer either. While I have had kids take APs in science and math, I personally cannot stomach the thought of history taught to the AP content.

 

I found this thread a while back enlightening......the whole thread. It is actually linking via the post that I used tems to finally find it. Though the main quote in that post, "African American history, women's history and the key vocabulary terms are the essential building blocks of any successful coalition. The three topics generated 90 points, enough to earn a 4," is enough for me to reject APUSH. There are a lot of other vital topics that are essential to have a balanced understanding of the history of the founding of this great country vs the PC version.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/index.php?showtopic=358328&hl=+apush%20+generated#entry3711991

[Kathy in Richmond]

double post

[Kathy in Richmond]

My kids did lots of AP courses, but none of the history ones, for the same reasons that are already being bounced around. We loved and didn't want to give up the WTM style history! (though Susan Richman's APUSH class has always appealed to me, but the kids didn't want to try it :)

[swimmermom3]

Sebastian, thanks for the restless night. :tongue_smilie:

 

I hope you find the answer you are looking for.

 

I have decided that after our two week "experiment," that I don't have the stomach for the pacing or the content of an APWH course. I believe that we can do better for challenge and depth on our own, even if it means that it will be more difficult to quantify level of mastery to an outside party. It is going to be rather embarrassing if the school does offer ds the AP Euro class and I turn them down.

[Nscribe]

We started a 2 year chronological World History in 8th. Will do APUSH 10th. It leaves us two years use however we decide we want to use them.

 

My AP approach generally is to do enough in a variety of areas to provide some validation. For us that means 4 exams planned, a 5th tentatively planned, over 4 years. (One Science, one Math, one History, one English - Dd wants to leave the door open for Music Theory)

 

If that fails to be sufficient for whatever eyes at whatever college to deem Dd "acceptable" then ... at some point it just wasn't meant to be. I do not want to spend these four years teaching for one test or another. I do worry about how the big picture will look on paper but the worry is based more on wanting to make sure she gets recognized for the hard work and challenges she is doing. Too many things play into why a kid is accepted or not accepted at a particular college at a particular time, and some have nothing to do with anything the kid could do.

[Chez J]

I don't have an answer either. While I have had kids take APs in science and math, I personally cannot stomach the thought of history taught to the AP content.

 

I found this thread a while back enlightening......the whole thread. It is actually linking via the post that I used tems to finally find it. Though the main quote in that post, "African American history, women's history and the key vocabulary terms are the essential building blocks of any successful coalition. The three topics generated 90 points, enough to earn a 4," is enough for me to reject APUSH. There are a lot of other vital topics that are essential to have a balanced understanding of the history of the founding of this great country vs the PC version.

 

http://forums.welltr...ed#entry3711991

 

 

 

Wow, that quote was mine. :laugh: Does that make me famous??? LOL! :coolgleamA:

 

After looking at that study guide, I decided I am not going to pursue AP USH. I haven't looked at World or European History yet, but I suspect I'll have the same issues.

 

Starting next year, what I am planning instead is:

 

Omnibus II in 8th; WTTW from IEW

Omnibus III in 9th; Am Lit from IEW

Omnibus V in 10th (yes I'm skipping ancients); British Lit from IEW

Omnibus VI in 11th; Something for AP Language or Literature (or both????)

BJU World History in 12th; World Lit from BJU

 

That will give my dd two credits each of Western Civilization and American History the way I expect American history to be taught. sheesh! One credit of World History. 4 English credits since I won't count the 8th grade English.

 

I plan to include .25 credit in geog. and .25 in art history each year to total 1 each in geography and art.

 

I could easily drop 1 credit Western Civ and 1 of Am. Hist and still have the appropriate number of credits: 1 western civ, 1 Am hist, 1 world history, and 1 world geog.

[Muttichen]

I did my own adaptation of Omnibus I-III in 7th-9th grades, then APUSH in 10th and AP Euro in 11th. It's true that the AP loves "politically correct" topics, but there's also no way you can do well on it without a solid grasp of history. I really don't understand when people talk about "teaching to the test" for APs. What you need for these tests is a thorough understanding of the subject. Sure, you need to practice with the different types of questions and you need to put up with a little goofiness, but your child will know history very well by the end and you'll have something objective to show for it. And the politically correct stuff is easy enough to get. My ds wrote an essay this week from an old AP about how the role of women changed from 1795-1860. He just thought about everything he knew about that time period, made a list, and thought about how each item would affect women. It's not like we had to spend extra time on "Women's Studies" or something. If you know the history well, you will do well.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I did my own adaptation of Omnibus I-III in 7th-9th grades, then APUSH in 10th and AP Euro in 11th. It's true that the AP loves "politically correct" topics, but there's also no way you can do well on it without a solid grasp of history. I really don't understand when people talk about "teaching to the test" for APs. What you need for these tests is a thorough understanding of the subject. Sure, you need to practice with the different types of questions and you need to put up with a little goofiness, but your child will know history very well by the end and you'll have something objective to show for it. And the politically correct stuff is easy enough to get. My ds wrote an essay this week from an old AP about how the role of women changed from 1795-1860. He just thought about everything he knew about that time period, made a list, and thought about how each item would affect women. It's not like we had to spend extra time on "Women's Studies" or something. If you know the history well, you will do well.

 

 

I see what you're saying about mastery of the subject giving the student tools to do well. I'm thinking that I may end up just passing on the World History course/exam, at least for the moment.

 

I had the idea this morning to step aside from strict history altogether for a year and do the two government courses. Not only do I think they are more aligned with our interests, but they give us a distinct change from what we've been doing and the ability to say that we had completed a history cycle and moved along. I will probably come back to history the following year and ask the kids to take both Euro and US history exams the same year.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

My AP approach generally is to do enough in a variety of areas to provide some validation. For us that means 4 exams planned, a 5th tentatively planned, over 4 years. (One Science, one Math, one History, one English - Dd wants to leave the door open for Music Theory)

 

 

 

I really like this idea of doing enough AP and SAT Subject Tests to show that the kids are doing challenging work, without trying to make every class line up with an AP syllabus.

 

Our local area doesn't offer any honors courses, except for AP and IB (depending on the school). So there are many kids who feel forced to take an AP class, when what they really want/need is a solid college prep - high school level course. [Yeah, we do have a bit of a Lake Wobegon issue here.]

[Mom2boys]

 

My AP approach generally is to do enough in a variety of areas to provide some validation. For us that means 4 exams planned, a 5th tentatively planned, over 4 years. (One Science, one Math, one History, one English - Dd wants to leave the door open for Music Theory)

 

 

This is what we are shooting for as well, except we are looking at four exams over three years - APES in 10th, APUSH in 11th and AP Eng Lang plus AP Stats in 12th.

 

So for history my ds studied Ancient History in 9th and Medieval/Renaissance History in 10th. He will take APUSH in 11th, and we think a modern world history class in 12th. It's close to the classical model, but lets him do advanced work in American History, which is a passion of his.

[Joan in GE]

Ok - we haven't done it yet, but we're planning on having dd do AP European History because to apply over here - you need an AP in human sciences. Ds3 did Human Geo but some schools are accepting that any more. I don't want to risk not having the required AP. That's all irrelevant to most people - just explaining why we feel it necessary.

 

I think it's impossible to just keep the 4 year rotation perfectly and do the AP's....but it's possible to slot the literature in, in different ways...

 

I've separated out American Lit to go with American History I this year and with American History II next year...Then we're hoping that dd does AP Eu Hx in 11th grade (and add other material to make it a World History exposure)...Simultaneously for English, we'll do the literature that wasn't covered already (impossible to do all - so will pick what appeals most)....If she does a fourth year of high school, we'll fit in more literature...

 

Joan