Which grammar for this type of kid?

[Tracy]

I have really struggled to figure what to do about grammar for dd7. She is very bright and good with language. She likes to "play" with words. She enjoys spotting literary devices in what she reads. She reads and spells well above grade level.

 

OTOH, she is extremely slow. She shows signs of ADD, though I haven't had her tested. Because she is so slow, she has a really hard time with worksheets. She will do them, but I have to be very judicious in how much I assign lest she break down in tears.

 

She hates to do independent work. She gets great pleasure out of academic discussion and interactions.

 

Because of the slowness issue, I decided not to do grammar for 1st and 2nd grade. I am still not sure whether to pick it up next year or the year after. I have been eyeing MCT, thinking that it seems right up her alley. But the reviews are so mixed, I really have my doubts.

 

I want to be thorough in teaching grammar, but I am not sure that she will need as much repetition as other kids since she seems to just "get" language. And with her slow speed, that is a good thing, because I am not sure she would be able to do a lot of repetition. I would also really love to teach diagramming, but that is not included in MCT.

 

What does The Hive think?

[Heidi]

I would not use a curriculum until middle school. Really, what's the point? Does she know the eight parts of speech? Capitalize at the beginning of a sentence, punctuation at the end? Quotation marks and commas? You could easily slip these things into your everyday teaching and talk about it casually. Or read Grammarland. Why burden her with a grammar curriculum when she obviously loves language and will undoubtedly pick up enough grammar to write well, even if she never touches a grammar book?

 

So my opinion is that now is a great time to read Grammarland to her, let her keep her love of language a while longer, and keep waiting a few years before you do formal grammar.

 

I thought I would wait until this year (3rd grade) to do grammar with my oldest. I picked up R&S English and I love it! She's almost half-way through the text now and she hates it, but does the work. It is so very thorough and wonderful. Then I read a compelling argument against formal grammar in Brave Writer and it resonated with me. There really isn't much a point to it at this age. Really. I dropped my beloved R&S English last week. My dd8 rejoiced. We had a wonderful school day today. We are learning just enough grammar in our Latin studies for now. That's where I'm at and that is where my opinion is coming from. So there ya go. :)

[Tracy]

You know, I forgot to mention that she is doing Prima Latina this year, and we get a lot of grammar through WWE and SWR. I don't think she could list the 8 parts of speech at this point. But I think she could define, or at least give examples, of each. I'll have to check on that. Yes, she knows how and when to use capitals and basic punctuation.

 

I was thinking we would have to ditch Latin if we started grammar, but I like the idea of keeping the Latin and waiting on the grammar.

 

I will have to check out Grammarland.

[Kuovonne]

What in the "mixed reviews" has you hesitant about MCT? Based on your description, MCT would be a good fit. No worksheets. Not much repetition (at least within a level). Not independent. Lots of discussion and interaction. Playing with words.

 

It is easy to add diagramming to MCT. Once the child can do four level analysis, diagramming is just remembering where to put the lines.

 

[Tracy]

What in the "mixed reviews" has you hesitant about MCT? Based on your description, MCT would be a good fit. No worksheets. Not much repetition (at least within a level). Not independent. Lots of discussion and interaction. Playing with words.

 

It is easy to add diagramming to MCT. Once the child can do four level analysis, diagramming is just remembering where to put the lines.

 

 

Well, yeah, that is why I am looking at MCT so closely. But I keep reading about it not being as rigorous, not covering certain things, etc. And then I read about how some components are just not worth doing at all, and I just don't know what to think. :confused1:

[Alte Veste Academy]

Totally agree with Kuovonne. Seems like MCT would be a great fit. It is like anything else. You will get negative reviews because it can't be a fit for everyone, naturally. But we love it (all of it!) and it sounds like it would be a great fit for your DD. Maybe check their return policy for peace of mind and check it out.

[Kuovonne]

Well, yeah, that is why I am looking at MCT so closely. But I keep reading about it not being as rigorous, not covering certain things, etc. And then I read about how some components are just not worth doing at all, and I just don't know what to think. :confused1:

 

Yes, MCT does not cover some things. Other than diagramming, do you need those things from your grammar program? For example, MCT island level is light on capitalization and punctuation, but it sounds like your daughter doesn't need it anyway.

 

Yes, some people say that some components aren't worth doing. Look carefully at your child's prior knowledge and skip the books that cover what she already knows. If your child has done extensive vocabulary study already, skip Building Language. If your child already knows the grammar in Island level, skip to Town level. (But at seven years old, she would probably do better in Island. MCT grammar is a very different approach from the grammar in WWE/SWR.)

 

BTW, I bet your DD would love the Island level poetry book.

 

[8filltheheart]

I know nothing about MCT's lower levels, so I can't comment on those.

 

How good is your grammar knowledge? Grammar is an oral endeavor in our house until late elementary. We start off young playing ISpy for nouns and silly motion games for action verbs. They learn that verbs totally change how we imagine things in our minds by playing games. We break down sentences from copywork and their writing assignments adding new concepts as old are mastered but never dropping old, so entire sentences are being analyzed. By the end of 4th grade, my kids are ready to use Analytical Grammar's high school bk for review. (Voyage was way too easy for my dd in 6th grade.). By middle school we are using college/adult bks on improving writing via grammar/editing.

 

It works for us. ;)

[Tracy]

How good is your grammar knowledge?

 

I guess I would qualify as "mediocre." I am more of a math/science gal, though I have a degree in Spanish. I have never done any diagramming, and I don't remember doing any grammar at all, though I must have at some point. I remember learning things like direct/indirect objects in Spanish wondering why I had never heard of these things before. I certainly don't know enough to teach it on the fly like you are doing (though I love that method). After going through a program with my oldest there is a good chance I could adopt that method for my younger ds.

[Tracy]

Yes, MCT does not cover some things. Other than diagramming, do you need those things from your grammar program? For example, MCT island level is light on capitalization and punctuation, but it sounds like your daughter doesn't need it anyway.

 

Yes, some people say that some components aren't worth doing. Look carefully at your child's prior knowledge and skip the books that cover what she already knows. If your child has done extensive vocabulary study already, skip Building Language. If your child already knows the grammar in Island level, skip to Town level. (But at seven years old, she would probably do better in Island. MCT grammar is a very different approach from the grammar in WWE/SWR.)

 

BTW, I bet your DD would love the Island level poetry book.

 

Well, I guess my hesitation is that I am having trouble quantifying what, exactly, is missing in MCT. If it is only capitalization and punctuation, I think that is covered sufficiently in WWE.

 

I do believe that she would love the poetry book, but I have heard that it is challenging. I have also heard that MCT gets significantly more difficult overall with each level. So I am wondering if it would be best to wait to start until 4th grade for that?

[EKS]

I would use MCT with her now. It is a wonderful introduction to grammar. Then, in a year or two, you can branch out. I like to alternate MCT (after the Town level) with another grammar program that is more detail oriented. We use Hake for that, but there are others that would work just as well.

[Five More Minutes]

She is very bright and good with language. She likes to "play" with words. She enjoys spotting literary devices in what she reads. She reads and spells well above grade level.

 

... Because she is so slow, she has a really hard time with worksheets. She will do them, but I have to be very judicious in how much I assign lest she break down in tears.

 

She hates to do independent work. She gets great pleasure out of academic discussion and interactions.

 

... I would also really love to teach diagramming, but that is not included in MCT.

 

 

 

I would say that MCT Island would be a great fit for your dd. My daughter, who also loves to play with language and spot literary devices, loves MCT and is retaining so much from it. It's discussion-based for the most part, and I still scribe for her when she asks me to for her sentence analysis in Practice Island. (I think she asks me to scribe just so that she can chat about the sentence. :-) )

 

We've finished Grammar Island, Building Language, and are working our way through Practice Island and Sentence Island right now. I've selected about 50 pages from FLL3 that specifically teach diagramming to work through with her, and plan to start those this week. Now that she understands subject/predicate from MCT, I think that the diagramming is just going to give her a shorthand for expressing that.

 

ETA: I think that punctuation is covered sufficiently in WWE. However, I'm also adding in some Editor-in-Chief worksheets for her to reinforce that. Mostly I'm trying to slow down her rate of MCT consumption because I've heard that Town Level really kicks it up a notch. My hope is to make MCT Town stretch out over two years.

[Kuovonne]

Well, I guess my hesitation is that I am having trouble quantifying what, exactly, is missing in MCT.

 

Here are some language arts things that MCT Island level does not have

spelling, phonics

capitalization & punctuation

reading comprehension

word usage (lay/lie), contractions, compound words, how to make plurals, etc.

alphabetizing

handwriting

 

 

I do believe that she would love the poetry book, but I have heard that it is challenging. I have also heard that MCT gets significantly more difficult overall with each level. So I am wondering if it would be best to wait to start until 4th grade for that?

 

I did not find the poetry book difficult, as long as you leave out the writing assignments in it. Children are quite capable of understanding the concepts in the book, especially children who love to play with language. Learning to use the poetry techniques themselves is a totally different and more difficult matter.

 

Yes, MCT gets harder with each level. But if Island level would be lovely right now, why not use it right now? If she isn't ready for Town after it, you can wait a year or two in between levels.

[Tracy]

Here are some language arts things that MCT Island level does not have

 

spelling, phonics SWR

capitalization & punctuation WWE

reading comprehension WWE

word usage (lay/lie), contractions, compound words, how to make plurals, etc. SWR

alphabetizing

handwriting SWR

 

 

Thank you for this! It looks like we are already covering most of it. I would just at some point need teach alphabetizing, which I don't think will take long.

 

 

I did not find the poetry book difficult, as long as you leave out the writing assignments in it. Children are quite capable of understanding the concepts in the book, especially children who love to play with language. Learning to use the poetry techniques themselves is a totally different and more difficult matter.

 

 

This is also very helpful.

 

Yes, MCT gets harder with each level. But if Island level would be lovely right now, why not use it right now? If she isn't ready for Town after it, you can wait a year or two in between levels.

 

 

Well, the problem is that as slow as she is, dd7 is very ambitious in her academics. There is so much that she wants to do, but she just doesn't have time to do it all. (If she had the stamina for it, we would be studying grammar, foreign language, logic, as well as learning how to cook, sew, crochet, knit, weave, draw, do calligraphy, etc.) If we start something and do not continue with it, she will feel bad about it--either that she failed at it, or that we are omitting something that we "ought" to be doing. She is very rule- and routine-oriented.

 

But I don't want to wait too long and find Island to be too easy. Or maybe I can wait and just start with Town?

[LBoogie]

Whatever you end up doing, could you just add Digging Into Diagramming to it? (I have never used it, but I also want to diagram with my daughter.)

 

http://www.growingwi...r.com/1DID.html