Parrothead Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Dd is 13.25 and in 8th grade. Last year she sailed through pre-algebra without any problems. This year algebra is kicking her butt. I've used both MUS and an older edition of Algebra Structure and Method by Mary Dolciani. Neither of them seem to be doing the trick, I thought may be we could just move on to MUS geometry and then come back to Algebra 1 next year. But it was pointed out to me to not be the best idea. I don't want to go back to pre-algebra. I have to do some kind of math per the state. I'm not sure what to go to next. Math is not my strong suit by any stretch of the imagination. And dh is more helpless at it than I am. There is no going to the local high school to take algebra even though legally we have that option (there is never an opening). Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Do you have an idea why algebra is hard for her? After a long time and a lot of pain, I found out my ds was weak in some basic functions that made algebra harder than it should have been. Alek's is a good interim solution while you find something different. Fred with the home companion is also another choice - it has s different-enough presentation that your dd might be able to get it. Key to Algebra is another choice to look at because it covers algebra in small steps. How did your dd do with fractions? How about factoring? My ds turned out to have been weak in both of those areas which caused him lots of pain in algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Do you have an idea why algebra is hard for her? After a long time and a lot of pain, I found out my ds was weak in some basic functions that made algebra harder than it should have been. Alek's is a good interim solution while you find something different. Fred with the home companion is also another choice - it has s different-enough presentation that your dd might be able to get it. Key to Algebra is another choice to look at because it covers algebra in small steps. How did your dd do with fractions? How about factoring? My ds turned out to have been weak in both of those areas which caused him lots of pain in algebra. Thanks I'll look at your suggestions. No problems with fractions or factoring. The problem seems to be using the axioms properly. She has order of operations, but moving beyond that it becomes a guessing game as to what to do next. It is difficult to explain. Things are better with Structure and Method than they are with MUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Would Key to Algebra maybe help? I've heard that is a gentle intro to algebra and it's certainly inexpensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I think your student might benefit from an actual teacher or tutor who can answer her questions and explain concepts. Have you looked into Jann's classes? If you or your DH can't help her, then using a canned program may not be ideal, because she can't ask anybody. ETA: Oh, and what axioms are you talking about? Has she understood that a balanced equation works like a scale? That you can put the same thing on each of the sides, or take away the same thing form each side, and the scale will still be in equilibrium? Once the student makes this connection, she does not have to memorize anything but has to simply remain careful about doing the same thing to both sides of the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 teaching textbooks has been a lifesaver here for math. The VERY CLEAR step by step instruction, combined with the constant review, has done wonders. Wonders I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I had DD work these forwards and backwards until she could type them in under learn, with 100% accuracy. They were important for use in the Foerster textbook, not so much in the AoPS books. Would learning them well help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Learning challenging algebraic concepts from a traditional textbook 'only' such as Dolciani (my old Algebra text btw) does not work for most student. In fact those textbooks are really student workbooks designed to be supplemented by classroom lessons which eleborate on the concepts 'briefly' addressed in the book. I agree with Regentrude that a teacher can really help your dd. There are many options including online courses, those with full lectures live or recorded and tutoring options. I would as a minimim look for something with lectures explaining these concepts to her. Here are a few good ones, though there are many more: Derek Owens Jann in texas TabletClass Math without Borders/ Foerster Khan Academy as supplemental AoPS Algebra videos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisabees Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I think your student might benefit from an actual teacher or tutor who can answer her questions and explain concepts. Have you looked into Jann's classes? If you or your DH can't help her, then using a canned program may not be ideal, because she can't ask anybody. ETA: Oh, and what axioms are you talking about? Has she understood that a balanced equation works like a scale? That you can put the same thing on each of the sides, or take away the same thing form each side, and the scale will still be in equilibrium? Once the student makes this connection, she does not have to memorize anything but has to simply remain careful about doing the same thing to both sides of the equation. Jann really helped one of my sons. We used her as a tutor twice a week. We also had success with LiveOnlineMath for another ds. Like Jann's services, there are tutors, as well as live classes. If you go the online route, I would recommend a live class. That way, your dd can ask questions as soon as she has them. Ds13 uses Derek's Algebra, which has pre-recorded lessons. DS really enjoys it, but if there is a question, a student has to be proactive and email the teacher. Not all kids will do that. I would definitely not skip on to geometry this year. In fact, I would take algebra slowly. Two years, if necessary. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Jann really helped one of my sons. We used her as a tutor twice a week. We also had success with LiveOnlineMath for another ds. Like Jann's services, there are tutors, as well as live classes. If you go the online route, I would recommend a live class. That way, your dd can ask questions as soon as she has them. Ds13 uses Derek's Algebra, which has pre-recorded lessons. DS really enjoys it, but if there is a question, a student has to be proactive and email the teacher. Not all kids will do that. I would definitely not skip on to geometry this year. In fact, I would take algebra slowly. Two years, if necessary. Best wishes! Great advice from Lisabees, especially regarding Algebra 1 which is the basis for all higher level math. Two years is a good idea, especially for those struggling with it. Its really that important to understand vs. simply survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arborite Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Real World Algebra by Edward Zaccaro is a super-straightforward introduction to algebra. In my experience as a student and teacher (college, master's, PhD-level), calling something an "axiom" makes a concept alien and terrifying. Generally, it's common sense expressed in scary symbols. Zaccaro explains things intuitively. If you, the teacher, are scared by the symbols, having someone else explain and defuse it may well be the answer. She may be sensing your insecurity on the topic and adopting it herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 Real World Algebra by Edward Zaccaro is a super-straightforward introduction to algebra. In my experience as a student and teacher (college, master's, PhD-level), calling something an "axiom" makes a concept alien and terrifying. Generally, it's common sense expressed in scary symbols. Zaccaro explains things intuitively. If you, the teacher, are scared by the symbols, having someone else explain and defuse it may well be the answer. She may be sensing your insecurity on the topic and adopting it herself. Thanks for the recommendation. No, I'm not math phobic. It has just been over 30 years and at the time it wasn't my strong suite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arborite Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I meant no insult, I hope you did not take it as such! We all have topics we like more or less, and kids sense it. I am planning to outsource art for that reason - I haven't an artistic bone in my body. Couple more curricular thoughts: - We are going to start using Algebra Keys for some practice. Nice, digestible packets of problems that focus on a specific skill. It kind of reminds me of Khan Academy, but on paper. -We use Khan when he runs into a roadblock. Having a third party explain the topic, and having the computer to curse at instead of me, defuses the situation. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Would Key to Algebra maybe help? I've heard that is a gentle intro to algebra and it's certainly inexpensive. We have it as a supplement and I find the series to be very clear in its instruction. DS is using Saxon Algebra 1 with the Art reed videos and it is going well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 I went with the Zacarro recommendation for supplement work. It shoudl be here tomorrow. I hope it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 My dh and I were looking at different algebra books this weekend. I really struggled with the Dolciani but dh really loved it. Dolciani is fairly symbolic whereas Lial uses a lot more exposition. In addition to making sure the foundational computational skills are in place,and looking at some of the online tutoring stuff, I'd consider spending $10 on amazon and picking up a different book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arborite Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Still loving Zaccaro. We just finished the third chapter. The word problems are very challenging, but the books provides tactics that let DS defeat them. He is so proud to be doing algebra! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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