People with twins who operate at different academic levels...please advise.

[cheryl h]

I have two fourth graders (ds9/dd9) who will be 10 this spring. Though we have been able to keep them both in the same grade so far, it has become increasingly obvious that ds9 will not be able to keep this pace much longer, and dd9 is capable of work above her grade level but we haven't pressed on in an effort to not damage ds' self esteem. Ds9's grades (math, spelling, reading comp, English grammar) have gone from B's to C's and dd's grades are at almost 100 for everything. He tends to have some ADHD tendencies and has a hard time focusing and the effects it has on his work frustrate him terribly. He constantly compares himself to his sister and calls himself stupid, even if I encourage him that he is doing his best. All this to say, I just have no idea on how to meet them both where they are at and not cause emotional turmoil for him. Please advise.

[Jilly]

With my twins I had to have them each do completly different curriculums, so that they would not compare themsleves to each other. I also did this to play to their strengths, but it helped so much with the comparasions as they were using different materials. It was around age 9/10 that I had to start doing this.

[Farrar]

My 8 yos operate on a different level for different subjects. One of them is a stronger reader and speller. They are hard to compare in math - they just approach it really differently so they are focused on different things right now. I have always taken the tact that this is normal and that everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. I try not to compare them. I try to emphasize those strengths and also emphasize how sometimes when something comes easy to you, you never are able to really understand it as well. I was showing my poor speller the other day how he's starting to understand spelling rules in ways his brother doesn't - because he's had to do a more intensive spelling curriculum and work harder on it, he may emerge as a better speller.

 

We don't give grades here, so that helps, I'm sure. And I don't have them using the same curricula for math. We do Bravewriter for language arts, but I have them doing different dictations and so forth and I read their writing at different times - and we emphasize personal voice with writing anyway, so that makes it easier for them not to compare. I've always tried to have them have a sense that they were on their own paths with learning.

 

It's not perfect, that's for sure. Sometimes they each get down on themselves if the other clearly gets something that they don't. But in general they're very good about carving out their own thing and taking pride in their interests and skills and not being too competitive and comparing.

[wapiti]

In addition to using different curricula, I'd consider exploring the possibility of learning issues that could be helped, whether ADHD or something else.

[Mom2OandE]

I have two 9 year olds who are worlds apart. I pray that one day I can teach them together. For now I teach them seperatly in the core subjects and choose curriculum that is best for each.

[Lolly]

I'd like to say it never ends...but it doesn't. To minimize the comparing, put them in different texts for the core subjects. Teach them separately. Keep them in the same grade if at all possible. You can move at different speeds so that ds can learn at his pace. Grade level doesn't necessarily mean they are in the same place. Do your very best not to discuss where one or the other is in their books. Honestly, what you are seeing may be a boy/girl difference. Girls often soar ahead at this age. Boys can take a few more years. Your problem may vanish in a couple of years. Or, there may indeed be a learning difference going on . One of my girls has ld's that keep her behind. She still gets upset at the unfairness of life. She tries twice as hard and can't do anywhere close to what her sister does with ease.

[Chava_Raizel]

My 10 yo twins are similar - ds1 has always had a hard time with reading - he's coming along really well this year - I feel like he's finally getting over that hump, and reading at probably a 3rd - 4th grade reading level. This also seems to affect his spelling, so I dropped what we were doing and started him on Sequential spelling. He loves it and for the first time he's spelling word correctly. However, he's a very talented artist and spends most of his free time drawing.

 

Ds2 is very bright, probably gifted - he's good at nearly everything. It's hard for ds1 sometimes, and for years he thought he was dumb. It broke my heart. I drilled it into his head that everyone has different talents.

 

Fortunately, they are both gifted musicians, which puts them on even ground - that really helped. They started their own band (Zombie Raptors). Maybe find something they are both good at that they can work together - it really helped ds1's self esteem.

[Myra]

_{Henry Winkler "The Fonz" (who has been diagnosed with LD and other learning difficulties) has written a series called Frank Zipzer. The novels are short and at a relatively easy reading level. Anyways, they are about a young boy that is having trouble at school and eventually his parents find out and then come to accept that he is LD. I read them outloud to my two boys when they were in grades 3 and 5 even though my kids aren't LD - and I was amazed at the responses. First, they are fun to read. But secondly, when he compared himself to other kids, etc. - it prompted my boys to tell how they felt about homeschooling, competition bwt each other, their strengths & weaknesses, and life in general. And my boys aren't big on discussions but these feeling just came out. I know that reading these books won't solve your problems but it does help the kids and you have a new insight.}

 

_Myra

[NotSoObvious]

My 10 year olds are at different levels, but they are getting closer, not farther apart.

The twin who is behind has never really cared. It's the arrogance in the other twin I've had to watch. ;)

 

I'd say put them in different curriculums, at least in math and spelling where levels are readily apparent.

[sbgrace]

My boys (3rd grade) are very different as well. I never teach the core subjects together. I don't assign grades and my competitive one never knows what his brother may have missed or got correct. I do have a problem in that I tend to keep the one who could be ahead with his twin. They are at grade level but, still, I should probably differentiate more. I think different curriculum for the academic subjects would be a very good idea in your case, testing for the struggler perhaps, finding what he does well to play that up, and emphasizing over and over that we develop at different paces and getting something easily and fast doesn't mean that the person who took longer won't be just as good or even beyond as time goes on.

[jujsky]

My kids aren't twins, but they're close in age (13 months apart) and we've had similar issues. DD(8) is younger, but has consistently been a better student in most areas. DS(9) has ADHD which we've recently started treating with medication.

 

It wasn't fair to hold DD back and as it was DS already felt "stupid" (his words) because DD would fly through and ace the work it took him forever to do, and he would never do as well. Last year I let them work at their own pace in math, spelling, and grammar. DD flew past him. He was upset, but the way I figured it, he was going to be upset anyway. I could either deal with one upset kid or one upset kid and one bored kid.

 

Things have been much better this year since we've been treating DS for ADHD. The one area in which he routinely surpasses DD is reading, so I'm seeing a bit of a reversal this year (last year they read different books). DD is frustrated that DS gets through a book in days that it takes her a good week or two to finish. I switched math curriculum though and decided to keep DS back in math. He's repeating 3rd grade math, DD is on her last disc of 4th grade math and will be moving onto 5th grade math. I've seen less math frustration this year now that DS is working at a level that matches his skills. Since he and DD are doing completely different levels and it's not a matter of him "catching up" to her in the same text book, things have been better.

 

Play to their strengths. Every time DD complains about DS's great reading skills, I remind her how strong she is in math. Whenever DS complains that DD is so much further ahead in math, I remind him of his strong reading skills. There will still be many subjects you can probably do with both of them (history, science, art). If one child is more project-oriented and one is more of a writer you can teach them the same material, but have them convey their understanding of the material in a way that suits their skills and abilities.

[cheryl h]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and helpful responses. Though changing curriculum this year isn't financially going to happen, I will probably sit down and see what we can do with what we have to help him be more successful. I foresee them testing into different Saxon levels next year after we finish abeka 4 for math, and I'll have to figure out something else for spelling. I have tried giving him a few ADHD concessions, like letting him stand while working or holding a highly textured object while he works, but that didn't seem to make a difference. I will keep trying to find methods that help him with his focus. As far as i can tell, the attention span is the biggest problem for him. He knows much of the grammar of his subjects, but has a very hard time keeping focused in any multi-step process. Everything about math and English at this point is multi-steps. I have had them both at the table with me all day, so her quickness and accuracy are ever present to him. She probably needs her own work space away from him. Ok...off to figure it out. I welcome any further responses....thanks so much.

[NotSoObvious]

Also, if it helps, my dd with ADHD was only able to work independently for the first time this year (5th grade). She has a checklist to follow and does ok, but I have to stay close and check in on her every 15 minutes or so.

 

So hang in there! Maybe next year will be better. :)

[wapiti]

I have tried giving him a few ADHD concessions, like letting him stand while working or holding a highly textured object while he works, but that didn't seem to make a difference. I will keep trying to find methods that help him with his focus. As far as i can tell, the attention span is the biggest problem for him. He knows much of the grammar of his subjects, but has a very hard time keeping focused in any multi-step process. Everything about math and English at this point is multi-steps.

 

A few thoughts about ADHD: there are so many issues that can look like ADHD that if it seems focus is the most significant issue, it may be worth actually finding out if that is the case or if there is some other issue at play. In addition, while some accommodations may be helpful (I would not view them as concessions), if he were to be actually diagnosed with ADHD, at some point I'd consider whether more significant help is necessary in the form of supplements, possible medication, etc. In any event, with a bright sibling, if you go down the path of exploring LDs, I'd want a tester experienced with twice-exceptional kids (bright with LDs), and I wouldn't accept a diagnosis of ADHD without full IQ testing. If he has an LD, it would be important for his self-esteem to understand that and to do what is possible to help overcome/work around that. The Learning Challenges board is a good place to ask questions.

 

I foresee them testing into different Saxon levels next year after we finish abeka 4 for math

I would reconsider next year's plan to use Saxon for a kid who has potential attention issues. I'd look for something with shorter lessons.

[Farrar]

 

I would reconsider next year's plan to use Saxon for a kid who has potential attention issues. I'd look for something with shorter lessons.

 

I agree. Add in the fact that his sister is apparently going to be doing Saxon but at a higher level and it seems like a no brainer to ditch it for another program.

 

I think it's one thing to be in a big class with a bunch of other kids and see yourself constantly ranked with grades and with the same assignments - things go up and down, different teachers have different expectations, classes change from year to year, etc. And something else entirely to be in the same grade with one other person, using the same materials, with the same teacher, year after year. I generally think homeschooling has the clear edge over school in nearly every way, but I think in this particular way, for multiples, we have to take steps to combat the inevitable sense of comparison that arises under those circumstances.

[cheryl h]

 

 

I agree. Add in the fact that his sister is apparently going to be doing Saxon but at a higher level and it seems like a no brainer to ditch it for another program.

 

I think it's one thing to be in a big class with a bunch of other kids and see yourself constantly ranked with grades and with the same assignments - things go up and down, different teachers have different expectations, classes change from year to year, etc. And something else entirely to be in the same grade with one other person, using the same materials, with the same teacher, year after year. I generally think homeschooling has the clear edge over school in nearly every way, but I think in this particular way, for multiples, we have to take steps to combat the inevitable sense of comparison that arises under those circumstances.

 

Yes...if they had been singles..we could have easily kept him back a year and started him in K when he was 6. We were heavily advised to not do that, and I think that was a good decision for the most part, but because we homeschool there is not a good reason that I can think of that should keep us from using different curriculum to suit his needs.

[cheryl h]

 

 

A few thoughts about ADHD: there are so many issues that can look like ADHD that if it seems focus is the most significant issue, it may be worth actually finding out if that is the case or if there is some other issue at play. In addition, while some accommodations may be helpful (I would not view them as concessions), if he were to be actually diagnosed with ADHD, at some point I'd consider whether more significant help is necessary in the form of supplements, possible medication, etc. In any event, with a bright sibling, if you go down the path of exploring LDs, I'd want a tester experienced with twice-exceptional kids (bright with LDs), and I wouldn't accept a diagnosis of ADHD without full IQ testing. If he has an LD, it would be important for his self-esteem to understand that and to do what is possible to help overcome/work around that. The Learning Challenges board is a good place to ask questions.

 

So he hasn't been diagnosed ADHD yet but we have started that conversation with his dr. He has been tested for speech issues twice and didn't qualify for therapy. He has garbled speech in general conversation, but has to slow down and repeat himself to get it out clearly because his mind is racing much faster than he can speak. He also isn't in the category of ADHD kids who have behavioral issues. From what we can see, his sleep is affected because his brain won't shut down enough to sleep well, and he can't focus during seat time.

 

I would reconsider next year's plan to use Saxon for a kid who has potential attention issues. I'd look for something with shorter lessons.

 

Thank you for that thought. Do you have another recommendation? I may out of financial necessity keep with the Saxon plan since I already have it, but possibly go through one book in 2 years and throw in some Life of Fred for a fun change of pace.

 

 

ETA- I just mutilated your beautiful multi-quote with my responses...sorry.

 

Edited January 5, 2013 by cheryl h