Dyslexia scores - thoughts?

[Izzy]

Editing out scores. :)

[Izzy]

Editing out scores. :)

[wapiti]

There are two different WJ-III tests: one for cognitive ability (IQ) and one for achievement. AFAIK, neither the cognitive or achievement WJ-III tests, or their combination, would provide much info on dyslexia specifically (though perhaps it depends on how broadly one defines dyslexia). However, they might point toward weaknesses that need further investigation.

 

I would look at the differences in scores between, say, "oral comprehension" and "passage comprehension" - that's five grade levels. If the passage comprehension involves reading printed material, but he does fine with oral, I might wonder about ruling out vision issues.

 

The ed psych or neuropsych who performed the testing should give you a report interpreting the scores.

[Tokyomarie]

What test are the oral comprehension, math ability, and cognitive ability scores from? Has he had a WISC-IV IQ test? The oral comprehension and math ability tests are his highest scores and would be the best indicators of general ability in the average range (which would be 90-110, with 100 being dead set average). The much lower cognitive ability score seems to be way off from the others, but not knowing the test, I'm not sure how it best figures in here.

 

The many scores on measures of reading, writing, and spelling at 85 or lower cetainly would indicate dyslexia for a student with average overall cognitive ability. The phonological memory and rapid naming scores really stand out, because they are not measures of academic achievement in reading. Rather they are measures of more fundamental sound/word processing which are not so highly influenced by schooling. The phonological awareness scores are higher, and could indicate work you've already done to help him become a good reader- especially if you you used any techniques which are consistent with an Orton-Gillingham approach.

 

The low grade levels on spelling and writing fluency in comparison to some of the others is typical, and indicates that you still have a lot of hard work ahead to help him develop important skills. Applied problems in math is a relative strength and means that he has some decent problem solving skills. His passage comprehension being so much lower than his oral comprehension, again, stands out as a typical issue when you compare oral language receptive skills to written language receptive skills.

 

Do you read aloud to your son? Reading comprehension difficulty in dyslexic students typically results from having less exposure to the structure of written language, and from having poorer vocabulary development due to relative lack of exposure to print language in comparison to the amount of exposure a strong reader gets. If you read aloud to your son and/or get him reading along with audiobooks that will help him develop a stronger vocabulary and a stronger sense for language structure. In any case, in addition to work on basic word level reading skills, he'll need to have a curriculum that explicitly teaches comprehension strategies.

 

These are just some initial thoughts. I may add more later.

[Tokyomarie]

There are two different WJ-III tests: one for cognitive ability (IQ) and one for achievement. AFAIK, neither the cognitive or achievement WJ-III tests, or their combination, would provide much info on dyslexia specifically (though perhaps it depends on how broadly one defines dyslexia). However, they might point toward weaknesses that need further investigation.

 

I would look at the differences in scores between, say, "oral comprehension" and "passage comprehension" - that's five grade levels. If the passage comprehension involves reading printed material, but he does fine with oral, I might wonder about ruling out vision issues.

 

The ed psych or neuropsych who performed the testing should give you a report interpreting the scores.

 

 

The selected subtest scores the OP gave from the WJ-III achievement battery are indeed good markers in a full evaluation for dyslexia. Scores from a cognitive battery such as WJ-III cognitive, WISC-IV, or Stanford-Binet, simply establish whether the student's cognitive function is at least in the average range, which is important to establish whether word level reading skills are significantly discrepant from general intellectual ability.

 

Passage comprehension from the WJ-III is a reading test, as is the comprehension score from the GORT-5.

 

Izzy, have you had a meeting yet with the tester to go over the scores and discuss plans for intervention? That meeting will be very important because you'll get a better understanding of the meaning of all the scores and the tester's personal impressions of how they fit with the general observations of the student as he/she worked with your son as well as how they fit with your son's history.

[geodob]

The Rapid Naming score is notable, where this could be the issue?

Which is essentially a test of the fluency of the connection between our auditory and visual cortexes.

So that as you read this, the sound of the words as you read them, are recalled almost instantly.

 

But when their isn't an instant connection?

Perhaps you might consider the situation? Where you recognize the word visually, and know the sound of it.

But their is difficulty between connecting them together?

Which occurs with both reading and writing.

 

Where given his other scores, he doesn't appear to have any difficulty with auditory and visual processing.

But rather the connection between them?

[EKS]

If the scores in the first post are all standard scores, I am confused as to why there has been a diagnosis of dyslexia. It appears that your son's achievement scores are quite a bit higher than his cognitive ability score, which makes me think that there is something odd about that score (either it is on a different scale than the others or your son's performance on it was compromised somehow).

[Tokyomarie]

If the scores in the first post are all standard scores, I am confused as to why there has been a diagnosis of dyslexia. It appears that your son's achievement scores are quite a bit higher than his cognitive ability score, which makes me think that there is something odd about that score (either it is on a different scale than the others or your son's performance on it was compromised somehow).

 

I wonder what test this "cognitive ability" score is from and if it is a composite score with subtest scores. I would also like to know whether the evaluator thought it was a valid score for overall cognitive ability. As a standard score, it doesn't seem compatible with the oral comprehension and the math applied problems scores. Those two are not cognitive ability tests, but they do indicate that cognitive ability is probably much higher than the score listed suggests.

[Izzy]

I did meet with the dyslexia specialist and all of his teachers. It was kind of rushed because most of the teachers were trying to hurry it along. Even after these results they think he's fully capable and just choosing not to do his work. :/ The specialist said the high oral comprehension and math scores indicated dyslexia since his other scores were low. It's the discrepancy they look for. She did say his dyslexia class would help in most areas but spelling would likely always be low but with typing that won't be such an issue. He did have an IQ test and it was 95 I think? 80-110 was normal. I don't remember what she said about cognitive ability or if she even said anything. Like I said, the whole meeting was rushed. He'll be in OT 3 times a week and I'm hoping they can address the cognitive ability but I'm not quite sure exactly what it means. I'll be making an appt. with a neuropsych and I'm sure he'll be able to give better answers. I just hope dyslexia is our last diagnosis and we can move on with therapy. He already has ADHD, SPD, and now dyslexia. I don't know if I can take something else being wrong. :(

[Tokyomarie]

A "cognitive ability" score is intended to be a measure of a person's reasoning/"thinking skills"/problem-solving ability. In otherwords, tests in some way or another usually require a person to not just spit back a memorized fact, but to manipulate information in some manner. It's not clear to me what test the "cognitive ability" score you reported is from, but it seems that the dyslexia specialist is discounting it and looking at those oral comprehension and math applied problems scores.

 

Do you know which IQ test was done? The WISC-IV is the most frequently used test for learning disabilities assessments. It has 4 index scores, and multiple subtest scores under each index. The score of 95 that you report would be a full-scale IQ, or a composite of all those subtests. If you have the subtest scores you might find it interesting to see if there is a lot of variation, or scatter, amongst the scores. If there are lots of highs and lows- ie 13s or above mixed with 7 & below on the subtests, that gives you an indication that the child is not a straight across the board "average" thinker as the 95 suggests.

 

That's great that your son will get OT 3X/week. Occupational therapy usually addresses sensory processing issues, handwriting, and or functional daily skils such as dressing or shoe-tying, moreso than cognitive skills.

 

Do you know what curriculum or approach the dyslexia specialist is using? He should be getting instruction using an Orton-Gillingham based curriculum. Wilson is one such curriculum that is used in schools. Spelling usually is one of the most difficult skills to develop and tends to come along later, but with a good O-G curriculum, consistently applied, he should be able to make good progress. I worked on spelling well into high school with both of my children who had difficulty. One is now a good speller, the other, welll..... But he is much more functional than he was once upon a time.

 

It is not uncommon for dyslexia to co-exist/co-occur with ADHD and/or other learning or behavioral challenges. It will require you to be very involved with teaching him at home as well as what he gets at school for him to succeed. At some point, it is possible that you may decide it would be better for him to be at home full-time. Many of us have chosen that path, especially in the foundational years. When these kids get teaching appropriate to their needs, they flourish, but on a different timetable than most typical students. It is extremely important, especially with the scores you have, to make sure that the school does not treat him behaviorally as if he is "lazy" or "not trying hard enough." When a child is avoiding work and is known to have a learning disability, the work avoidance is often because the level of work, the amount of work, or the method by which it is presented is not a good match for the student's abilities. BTDT with my child, and *I* was the teacher. I had to learn a different way of working with my child to get the progress I wanted to see.

[Izzy]

I just pulled out is 2nd grade dyslexia and IQ test. His IQ was 92 but she said it would have been higher because he hadn't been exposed to multiplication yet. He was held back in K so he's older than his peers and the test grades on age not grade. Well, the only reason he wasn't diagnosed with dyslexia was because he scored an 88 in math and he had to have at least a 90.

 

Whole his IQ was 92, it was all over the place. His below averages were word order, triangles (visual construction & spatial ability), sequential, and simultaneous. The test said his cognitive ability was 92 so I don't understand why it's 77 now?

 

I am so upset looking at this. He had dyslexia all along and if I knew what I knew now things would have been so different. He's home now and I will be sure none of my kids ever attend a public school again. Oh, and he was dismissed from his IEP in 5th grade and I thought it was because he was caught up. No, it was because he wasn't *that* far behind his peers. He wasn't that far behind because all of the work I put in helping him. I so badly want to contact the district and tell them this is the reason my 4 kids won't be attending your schools. :/

[Lecka]

I think you could send a polite, non-bridge-burning letter. Maybe one letter wouldn't do much, but if they get more letters like it, maybe they would get an idea.

[PeterPan]

Do you read aloud to your son? Reading comprehension difficulty in dyslexic students typically results from having less exposure to the structure of written language, and from having poorer vocabulary development due to relative lack of exposure to print language in comparison to the amount of exposure a strong reader gets. If you read aloud to your son and/or get him reading along with audiobooks that will help him develop a stronger vocabulary and a stronger sense for language structure. In any case, in addition to work on basic word level reading skills, he'll need to have a curriculum that explicitly teaches comprehension strategies.

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain this! I've always said that my dd reads so well because when she was young she listened to HOURS AND HOURS of read alouds every day. I read aloud to her from Lang Fairy Tales while she played in the yard. She wouldn't sound out words, but when she started reading, it was as if she recognized everything (from that audio exposure) and could make the connection very, very quickly. My ds is SO wiggly (ironic when you consider the label my dd has, but whatever), and I find it harder to make sure he gets that audiobook exposure in. I've been working on it and getting in some, which he seems to enjoy. He's just not at the prolific amounts dd was. Gotta keep working on it, now that I realize what I'm fighting for, sigh.

[Izzy]

I used to read aloud to him often which could explain why his reading comprehension was higher in 2nd grade as opposed to now. I stopped reading aloud to him in about 4th grade I think? That's when they were expected to read to themselves and I always made sure he was reading something. My plan now is to check out some books on CD and have him read while listening to them. I've been looking at Oak Meadow for him and I think it fits his personality very well. They have a book list and I would read those books to him rather than having him read them himself. I'd have to modify the writing assignments and would have him do most of it orally. He'll be learning to type in OT and that will help with his written exp<b></b>ression I hope.

 

It's all so expensive! $500 for Oak Meadow curriculum which isn't bad, $300 just for the first level of Barton, and $60 a week in co-pays for OT. I think the OT is very important because they can help with some vision tracking issues he has and his organization and sequencing skills. I'm making an appt. with a neurologist and I don't know if he's going to add more to that or not. But whatever it takes to get him on the right track. I'm just relieved we finally have some answers.

[Tokyomarie]

OhElizabeth, your son is still young. He's a fairly new 4yo, right? Don't forget that boys' development tends to track a little later than girls, especially in their ability to sit still and listen. I used Before Five in a Row and Five in a Row with my son for those early years. He loved those stories and the pictures grabbed his attention. The important thing is to make sure he's getting plenty of listening at his comprehension level.

 

Izzy, it sounds like you've got on the right track with the OT; hopefully, that will all go well. It's painful thinking about the money, but in the end it will be worth it if your son develops the solid skills he needs to be a successful student and, later, a successful employee. Not successful as in rich and famous, but able to handle the demands of life and to not be held back from a position where he can use his talents due to not having reasonable reading and writing skills.