How would you handle this? Math question on placement when behind

[Jennifer WI]

So my sons are behind in math. I don't know why it seems we are never where we are supposed to be. Curriculum jumping was a problem, but it wasn't on purpose. It was that NOTHING seems to go well. Now my dd7 is doing fine and just doesn't have the issues her brothers have with math and critical thinking. So I don't think it's entirely my fault, but probably partly. I feel incredibly guilty.

 

To my point: We have been using CLE for a while now and they are doing fine with it. But I know that they would struggle with anything deeper at all. And I don't want that for them. What I mean by deeper is any kind of problem that is slightly outside the box, they would have no clue what to do with. They don't really 'get' numbers and why they work.

 

My ds's are 12 and 10. Would you, if these were your children to tutor, continue with a traditional memorization math where they are closer to grade level? Or would you do Singapore math (which I have younger grades in because we tried them when they were younger.) Sadly to say, they would be in the SAME levels of Singapore as when we left it before. My ds10 would be in 2B. My ds12 would be in 4B. In CLE they are about grade 4 and grade 6.

 

I've seen the knowledge of CLE not transferring from their workbooks and it scares the heck out of me. My ds12 knows the formula for the area of a triangle like no body's business, but give him a problem where a triangle was within a rectangle and he had to find the area of the triangle by subtracting that area from the total of the rectangle, he had no idea what to do with it. I was never into math as a kid, but now I find it fascinating. I would LOVE to get a better math education, and I would LOVE my children to understand it better than I did. But I don't know how to keep them at grade level and do that. I clearly can't do that.

 

I just don't know what to do and I feel a little like the rotten pumpkin still out in front of my house that needs to be thrown out over the hill. Should I do one or the other or both? Is it overkill or more confusing to do different kinds of math like that? Should I not worry and just let them do CLE? After seeing how he did on the Singapore placement I don't think I can do that in good conscience.

 

::sigh::

 

Advice please.

 

Edited: One more thing. My ds12 is also through half of LOF decimals which he seems to do well with.

[Arcadia]

What I mean by deeper is any kind of problem that is slightly outside the box, they would have no clue what to do with. They don't really 'get' numbers and why they work..........

My ds12 knows the formula for the area of a triangle like no body's business, but give him a problem where a triangle was within a rectangle and he had to find the area of the triangle by subtracting that area from the total of the rectangle, he had no idea what to do with it.

 

I have no experience with CLE. However the above problem might be reduced with more experience with word problems. I wouldn't do two math curriculum as your DS12 and DS10 already have quite a full plate but I would add in more word problems practice,

[daybreaking]

I would advise you not to switch. I think more problems come from jumping too much than from staying consistent with a math program that might not be all you desire. I also think it would be quite discouraging for a 10 yo to be back in 2B. Rather than switching, how about just adding in some "thinking out of the box" type of problems? You could supplement with some of Singapore's IP or CWP. Perhaps do CLE Monday through Thursday and do the IP & CWP on Fridays or do CLE daily, along with a few IP/CWP problems. To be honest, it's not that unsual for a child not to "see" the need to find the area of the rectangle and then subtract the triangle. I used to be a math teacher and many of my students wouldn't see that right away. If you added in some Singapore type problems, your children would get the foundation they needed from CLE, but they also would get the 'mental stretching" from Singapore that would help them more readily grasp the different type of problems. If it makes you feel better, I also taught college math and I remember a problem where the students were asked to find the empty space in a can of tennis balls. Very few of them understood they needed to find the volume of the cylinder can and then subtract the volume of the three tennis balls. The more we worked through problems like this, the more they started to "get" it, but it took time and practice. Perhaps by supplementing with Singapore, as time allows, your sons will develop that type of thinking, but without being held back.

[happyhomemaker]

It does sound like they just need more practice with word problems. Dd is the same way. I got some word problem books- we like Zaccaro- and we go through them together. We talk about how to do the problem, how to set it up before we write anything down. I try to emphazize how and why things work in math over getting the correct computation (that's important too, but I still praise dd for seeing how to solve the problem even if she makes a computation mistake). We've been doing this since the beginning of the year and I am seeing a big difference in her ability to solve word problems on her own.

[letsplaymath]

I second the recommendation for Ed Zaccaro books. They are great supplements, and fun, too! Also consider adding a few Murderous Maths titles to your homeschool library. Continue with the math program that works for your family, but enrich it with creative math beyond the workbooks. Your sons will probably learn more from the non-traditional books, but you'll have the workbooks as security.

 

Also, you might consider (if you can find the time), going through the workbooks Buddy Math style. Having to explain each problem they work, to put in their own words WHY they did it that way, or how they figured out what to do, really does strengthen a child's understanding.

[Hypatia.]

I jumped around with DS1 (8) also, and now I'm worried about him being behind also. He's enjoying Teaching Textbooks now and has asked not to switch again so I'm supplementing with CWP.

[lifesadream83]

So my sons are behind in math. I don't know why it seems we are never where we are supposed to be. Curriculum jumping was a problem, but it wasn't on purpose. It was that NOTHING seems to go well. Now my dd7 is doing fine and just doesn't have the issues her brothers have with math and critical thinking. So I don't think it's entirely my fault, but probably partly. I feel incredibly guilty.

 

To my point: We have been using CLE for a while now and they are doing fine with it. But I know that they would struggle with anything deeper at all. And I don't want that for them. What I mean by deeper is any kind of problem that is slightly outside the box, they would have no clue what to do with. They don't really 'get' numbers and why they work.

 

My ds's are 12 and 10. Would you, if these were your children to tutor, continue with a traditional memorization math where they are closer to grade level? Or would you do Singapore math (which I have younger grades in because we tried them when they were younger.) Sadly to say, they would be in the SAME levels of Singapore as when we left it before. My ds10 would be in 2B. My ds12 would be in 4B. In CLE they are about grade 4 and grade 6.

 

I've seen the knowledge of CLE not transferring from their workbooks and it scares the heck out of me. My ds12 knows the formula for the area of a triangle like no body's business, but give him a problem where a triangle was within a rectangle and he had to find the area of the triangle by subtracting that area from the total of the rectangle, he had no idea what to do with it. I was never into math as a kid, but now I find it fascinating. I would LOVE to get a better math education, and I would LOVE my children to understand it better than I did. But I don't know how to keep them at grade level and do that. I clearly can't do that.

 

I just don't know what to do and I feel a little like the rotten pumpkin still out in front of my house that needs to be thrown out over the hill. Should I do one or the other or both? Is it overkill or more confusing to do different kinds of math like that? Should I not worry and just let them do CLE? After seeing how he did on the Singapore placement I don't think I can do that in good conscience.

 

::sigh::

 

Advice please.

 

Edited: One more thing. My ds12 is also through half of LOF decimals which he seems to do well with.

 

 

Last year was my first year hsing. DD went to a private Montessori School for prek-1st. I transferred her to ps for 2 weeks of 2nd and took her out. I had her placement tested with K12 (we started our experience with K12 Independent and quickly abandoned it.) However, she tested with 100% through K work. Everything else was horrible so she started 2nd grade in 1st grade math. I had her doing 2 lessons per day which was daunting with K12.

 

I switched to Math In Focus, which is just like Singapore math. I used the Singapore math placement test and compared the textbooks by getting the online sampling. She tested into book 1b. So we started there. Over the summer she finished book 2a. Then I had her placement tested through K12 again so I could see the progress she had made. She placed into 3rd grade math. Needless to say we should finish up book 3b by the end of this summer. I like Math in Focus because I think the teachers guides are better then the Singapore math ones.

 

If I were you I would first in place of a math lesson for a few days or a week give them the placement tests for each level of Singapore Math to see what they have retained. That will help you decide where to start from again. Then before starting I would give them the k12 placement tests. K12 is more advanced then ps so it may help you to feel better about where they are at in comparison to ps kids. Now the ones I linked you is the printable one that you have to grade yourself. I had my dd tested through their automated system. The automated one is free(you have to call and request it) but takes forever for the kids to get through because they start with K and have them go through each grade. I like it though because it breaks down each section to show you what they need help in. If you call for placement just pretend you are interested in their curriculum. LOL. We were still paying for our access so that is why I did it that way plus I had the test from the beginning of the year as a baseline to go from.

 

 

Then I would go back to Singapore Math/Try Math in Focus if you would like the cool instructor guides :).

 

I think they will be fine though. My dd is catching up to where she should be now. We do 1/2 a math lesson a day through summer though and I have her continue reading books that push her reading level over summer/holiday breaks so that she doesn't lose it. Most kids lose 1/2 a grade level of math and 1 reading level or more over summer breaks if they are not feeding them.

[MerryAtHope]

We have been using CLE for a while now and they are doing fine with it.

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My ds12 is also through half of LOF decimals which he seems to do well with.

 

To me, this is one HUGE reason NOT to switch again. They are doing well with what they have, they are used to it, you are--keep on. Every math program has its own scope and sequence, and you may lose more than you gain by switching. Don't fix what's not broken, just keep on going.

 

I would advise you not to switch. I think more problems come from jumping too much than from staying consistent with a math program that might not be all you desire. I also think it would be quite discouraging for a 10 yo to be back in 2B. Rather than switching, how about just adding in some "thinking out of the box" type of problems? You could supplement with some of Singapore's IP or CWP.

 

Yes, this, or the Zacarro or something else (I think LOF offers some outside the box thinking too). I like the idea of supplementing, even if you just have a "word problem of the day" for them--something puzzle-oriented to think through. I think that would accomplish your goal, while continuing with CLE will cement the basic skills.

 

Merry :-)

[mumto2]

I have no experience with CLE but I would stick with it for continuity. If your ds is doing LOF and liking it I would keep that going also. There are so many great curriculums out there but it all comes down to actually completing the work. I wouldn't change what is getting done. LOF is great. For my dd it has turned into her primary curriculum for upper level math--she still suppliments with other. It will offer different perspectives on the same type of problem and different methods of problem solving which is what you need in an extra curriculum.

 

Just wanted to add LOF has really worked wonders with a friends sons. They have used a good program from the start,no switching, but really did not get math at all. We all have tried tutoring them and could not seem to create long term understanding. She has added in LOF and they finally are getting it. She went back to apples with the 8 yr old. Fractions for 12 yearold.

[Another Lynn]

I would not switch. CLE is a solid foundation and it is giving them what they need. If you decide to supplement with more challenging problems, don't get discouraged if they can't solve them, especially at first. They can still stretch and learn a lot from seeing you model the solution - even if you have to do it a lot.

[grantmeawish]

I never understood word problems as a child and I am good in math. I think I didn't understand them because they were rarely taught. Now I am making sure my ds gets lots of exposure to them (everyday) We do SM IP and CWP everyday. He is really starting to get the hang of it and I think its from pratice, practice, practice!

[boscopup]

I think you should keep CLE and just add in Singapore CWP, starting at the grade 3 book. Also, use Rosie's Education Unboxed mental math videos. That is often what causes kids to place lower in Singapore.

 

Also, note that different curricula have different scope and sequence. When my son was halfway through Singapore 4B, he placed into Saxon 7/6. So a 6th grader working through Singapore 4 would not be as behind grade level as the number on the book might lead you to believe.

 

I still wouldn't switch them though. Just supplement with what you think might be missing from CLE. They may understand the mental and problem solving side of things better when they've matured a bit.

[Mommy22alyns]

Exactly what boscopup said - CLE is fantastic for us, but I do add in CWP for Rebecca to broaden her horizons.