sewingmama Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 No I don't have a 2nd grader yet but I'm curious :D I had my first moderator meeting yesterday with a person from the education department. He told me that they (as in public school "they) expect kids to be able to write half a page by the end of 2nd grade (so rising 3rd graders I guess). If you have a grade level progressing child - (as in not one that struggles with writing or is advanced/gifted) do you think this is a fair goal or a low expectation. The reason I ask is that my DD will start 1st grade in Jan and is a fairly struggling writer. Even with her struggles I can see her surpassing that - or at least I think she could. I want to know if I am pushing her too hard to think she could do more then that by then or if our public school expectations are just low in general. The moderator seemed blown away by all my DD was capable of -she reads at 2nd grade level, does 1st grade math and according to him has very neat handwriting for her age. He considered her "advanced" (officially she's in K). However I have always considered her to be an average grade level learner. Especially when I read these boards - most 6 yo's seem to be doing as well as but usually more/better then she is. I think her handwriting is terrible :lol: her reading ability "average" and her math ability "usual" considering she is an older K'er. So should I cut my DD some slack or do you consider being able to write half a page by the end of Grade 2 a bit of a low expectation for the "average" on grade level student? Oh and I just wanted to make clear I don't push my DD - we school 2- 3 days a week for about 2-3 hours of lessons 10 minutes each. We haven't done any school in the last 2 weeks because we are getting ready to go on vacation and I'm already in vacation mode :lol: I keep thinking my DD is "behind" since we seem to do so little school :o but according to PS standards she is "advanced" So how much is your 2nd grader writing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoy85 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 well first there is NO way I would compare my HS child to a PS child. C is doing 2nd grade and with help she can write 1/2 page- more like copy work.. On her own to tell her to "write about your day" type thing- no shed have no idea. BUT we havent really taught that part yet. We are going a different route to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 He told me that they (as in public school "they) expect kids to be able to write half a page by the end of 2nd grade (so rising 3rd graders I guess). Is that half a page of A4/foolscap? So should I cut my DD some slack or do you consider being able to write half a page by the end of Grade 2 a bit of a low expectation for the "average" on grade level student? My kids are typical when it comes to writing by US public school standards but behind by my home country standards. My 1st grader can comfortably write a half page with spelling help. My 3rd grader could comfortable write a full A4 page if he likes the topic by end of 2nd grade. They write longer for fiction than non-fiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 well first there is NO way I would compare my HS child to a PS child. I do totally agree with this BUT since it is State required that I meet the PS standards to gain exemption to homeschool I have to take it into consideration KWIM. If I'm not meeting their goals/standards then they can make me send my child to school. One of the reasons I HS is because I consider PS expectations here low. I truely consider my DD to be an average on grade learner but she is far ahead of PS standards according to the moderator. The main reason I want to know what other HS 2nd graders are writing is so I can be reasonable in setting goals for my DD - I don't want my goals to be unrealistic KWIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Is that half a page of A4/foolscap? He didn't say but I am assuming A4 since we were discussing the NAPLAN test at the time and that is what they give the kids to use for that. *NAPLAN is the test they give in years 3,5,7 and 9 to check standards for reading, writing and maths. It is supposed to catch the kids who are failing so they can get extra help but we won't go into my views on how successful it is at that :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 IThe main reason I want to know what other HS 2nd graders are writing is so I can be reasonable in setting goals for my DD - I don't want my goals to be unrealistic KWIM. You can always set a baseline goal that you think your child would be able to achieve and a higher goal that you hope she can achieve. If she falls below the baseline than its time for evaluating whether she does not have an interest yet in writing or the writing curriculum (if you are using one) don't fit her well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 You can always set a baseline goal that you think your child would be able to achieve and a higher goal that you hope she can achieve. If she falls below the baseline than its time for evaluating whether she does not have an interest yet in writing or the writing curriculum (if you are using one) don't fit her well. So I would set the PS goal of half a page as the baseline and anything she achieves over that is gravy :lol: Yes I get what you mean. :tongue_smilie:I haven't actually started formal writing with her yet beyond forming the letters and copywork. I was waiting for 1st grade for anything formal. I just get a little confused about what my expectations should be (i.e. goals I should work towards) when every 12 months I have someone from public education coming into my home and saying "Here is the standard - oh your DD is so advanced - make sure you aren't pushing her too hard -she'll burn out" etc etc. I don't consider her "advanced" and I don't consider her "pushed too hard" for 11 months of the year but after the moderator visit I run to the board and start asking everyone if public school standards are just low or my expectations too high :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaOz Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 My ds is nearing the end of second grade (I am also in Australia.) I don't consider him advanced in any area except perhaps for maths. He can, however, easily write 3/4 of an A4 page, and sometimes more, of a narration related to his history or science. So, yes, I would think that 1/2 a page is a fairly low expectation. Just my opinion :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_the_Rabbit_Hole Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Is it just length they are looking for or quality too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 From my perspective, "writing half a page" is a fine motor goal, not an academic goal. I don't think in terms of how much of a page I want my child to fill up. My writing goal for early elementary is that my child should produce sentences that are well-formed, grammatical, correctly spelled, and correctly punctuated. When she's got sentences down, we'll move on to wel-constructed paragraphs. Public schools, at this age, tend to focus more on fluency and self-expression. Writing tends to be personal, and accurate conventions are considered to be just one component among many. So the half-page of writing might be an ode to a child's favorite kind of candy, with inventive spelling and some grammatical mistakes. That's not something I'm striving for, but when I reviewed with the city my reviewer thought my opinion on this was weird. My 2nd grader does often produce paragraphs or half-pages of that kind of free writing. It's usually letters home from Hogwarts. :D She does them in her free time, for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Is it just length they are looking for or quality too? I'm assuming they are looking for quality. They have to be able to pass the NAPLAN exam which is held at the beginning of Grade 3 and fine motor skills are not one of the things they are graded on ;) Here is an example of a writing prompt used in the exam for Year 3. Is it cruel to keep animals in cages? What do you think? Do you agree or disagree? Write to convince a reader of your opinions. Actually after reading the prompt example I'm thinking I have my answer and we need to get to work :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'm assuming they are looking for quality. Actually after reading the prompt example I'm thinking I have my answer and we need to get to work :001_huh: They are looking for quality. My guess would be that it would need to be grammatically correct with few or no spelling errors. Hopefully split into paragraphs so that it is not in one lengthy paragraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentuckymom Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 My son is in second grade in public school, and all of his writing pieces for the portfolio they have to complete every year were at least half a page in first grade. So, yes, I think your public school system has low standards. Since your daughter is already close to second grade standards in kindergarten, don't stress. Also, don't let some random official who doesn't know you or your child make you think you're doing something wrong and in danger of burning her out. If your daughter is enjoying school, keep doing what your'e doing. If she starts to complain, reevaluate and see if you need to back off a bit. I don't think you have to worry about meeting public school standards given what you're doing so far. Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 From my perspective, "writing half a page" is a fine motor goal, not an academic goal. I don't think in terms of how much of a page I want my child to fill up. My writing goal for early elementary is that my child should produce sentences that are well-formed, grammatical, correctly spelled, and correctly punctuated. When she's got sentences down, we'll move on to wel-constructed paragraphs. :iagree: We follow the WTM method of writing, we are focusing on copywork, dictation and summarization right now. I'm glad we don't have to follow ps standards here, that is part of why we hs because I don't believe those standards are the best goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I think 1/2 page is developmentally inappropriate for most children in all honesty. 2 sentences of copywork is about all I ask at this age quite honestly. We do oral narrations as well of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 My son is in second grade in public school, and all of his writing pieces for the portfolio they have to complete every year were at least half a page in first grade. So, yes, I think your public school system has low standards. Since your daughter is already close to second grade standards in kindergarten, don't stress. Also, don't let some random official who doesn't know you or your child make you think you're doing something wrong and in danger of burning her out. If your daughter is enjoying school, keep doing what your'e doing. If she starts to complain, reevaluate and see if you need to back off a bit. I don't think you have to worry about meeting public school standards given what you're doing so far. Keep up the good work! Awww thank you for this :D I'm pretty sure I am not buring her out - we school so little it seems LOL using the the Charlotte Mason method - 10 minute lessons for about 2 hours a day and most days with 3 young ones I'm the one who is burned out by day 3 so we don't do anything Thursday/Friday :tongue_smilie: My DD was a really struggling writer -hated it and wouldn't write a thing - not even one letter except when we did her HWOT lessons - that is all she would do. SO I decided to back off and wait till she started 1st grade to deal with the writing -and then what do you know -a few weeks ago she started writing -everywhere -all day long - of her own accord :D I'm still waiting till 1st grade to start formal writing lessons but I don't think I am burning her out. If only I didn't have to have her take that pesky test I would not even bat at eyelid at where she was compared to other children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeterbug Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'm assuming they are looking for quality. They have to be able to pass the NAPLAN exam which is held at the beginning of Grade 3 and fine motor skills are not one of the things they are graded on ;) Here is an example of a writing prompt used in the exam for Year 3. Actually after reading the prompt example I'm thinking I have my answer and we need to get to work :001_huh: I keep thinking I need to get one of those NAPLAN review books and go through it with my grade 2'er. Just to guage where we are. But We just don't cover things in the same order, so there's many things I'm sure he'd do poorly in. I'm in Victoria where we aren't required to submit plans and examples of work, so I'm trying not to worry about it. We'll cover it all eventually, just not in the same order as ps. I'm glad we're in Vic so I don't have to stress about it! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 If only I didn't have to have her take that pesky test I would not even bat at eyelid at where she was compared to other children. I keep thinking I need to get one of those NAPLAN review books and go through it with my grade 2'er. Year 3 Example NAPLAN Test Assessing the writing task Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 From my perspective, "writing half a page" is a fine motor goal, not an academic goal. I don't think in terms of how much of a page I want my child to fill up. My writing goal for early elementary is that my child should produce sentences that are well-formed, grammatical, correctly spelled, and correctly punctuated. When she's got sentences down, we'll move on to wel-constructed paragraphs. I think 1/2 page is developmentally inappropriate for most children in all honesty. 2 sentences of copywork is about all I ask at this age quite honestly. We do oral narrations as well of course. Thank you gals for this! I have been stressing about this. My 2nd grader is doing about 3 sentence narrations. Half a page with a prompt? No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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