DS9 has problems with authority

[redsnapper]

Does anyone have advice for me? My ds9 has a problem with authority. He is not an angry little guy, but he does resist doing what he's told and has a bad attitude when he can't get out of stuff.

 

We were thinking about my DH taking some time off work and just working with him exclusively. Kinda like Daddy Boot Camp...

 

Also, we realized that as he's grown we've babied him a little as we tried to help deal with is powerful emotions. We're getting to the place with him where we're finally saying, "do it because I am your parent" and not explaining everything to him anymore.

 

Thoughts?

 

THanks,

Melissa

[TammyS]

We're getting to the place with him where we're finally saying, "do it because I am your parent" and not explaining everything to him anymore.

 

 

 

:grouphug: This is probably the best thing you can do for him. It's one thing to explain something to a kid who really wants to know.....but that's seldom the case. Most of the time, they just want to argue, or they just want to see if you can justify your position (which leads you to trying to justify it to their satisfaction which leads to arguing). But to answer a kid who is trying to draw you into an argument (and maybe that's not his initial idea, but it definitely becomes the pattern, intentional or not) is actually NOT a kindness to him (much less yourself).

 

Most parents (myself included), IMO, talk way too much to our kids. We want them to agree with us! We want them to say, "of course! I see your wisdom now! Why didn't I think of that!". What we want is a fairy tale. We need to learn to just shut up.

 

Give the instruction and walk away, literally. Don't even wait for the question. Be gone before he even formulates it. You might even deliberately plan then next 6 things that you have to do so that you can move with purpose. If he follows you, ignore him. If he continues to follow you, go somewhere he can't follow (stash a book in the bathroom!). Eventually, he will get it.

 

A word about attitudes: as long as he isn't being excessively nasty or destructive, ignore his attitude. He really doesn't have to be happy about. Don't let him make others miserable...but he is entitled to make himself miserable if he wants.

[Desert Rat]

Hmm.. This sounds a bit like my youngest. I find he likes to do things on his own terms. In our house, that means that I give him a task. He balks. I leave him alone and he finishes it. If I stay in the room, he continues to complain or refuse. But, if I leave the room, the task is completed, well and in good spirits. He just doesn't like me overseeing. I get that. It took my dh awhile to understand that though. And I ignore when he tells me, "no". I just tell him what needs to be done and leave the room. Maybe try this method and see if it works?

[Joshin]

DS7 is like that. He'll fight tooth and nail sometimes. But I can't just do the "because I said so" line. My parents used that on me a lot (I also had authority issues) and it really upset me as a child that they wouldn't listen to me, which made me fight back all the harder. It also made me sometimes wonder if what I had to say wasn't important to my parents, which in kid logic means "what if I'm not important to my parents?" I fought all through high school and I still bristle when I hear my parents say that to my kids.after

 

Instead, when DS starts to argue, I tell him we will discuss his thoughts on it AFTER he does whatever he has been asked. If he asks why he has to do something, I tell him because it's his responsibility and we will discuss it AFTER the task is compete. Then yes, I walk away if he keeps arguing and discipline as necessary if he completely refuses. I've found after the fact he either A) has nothing to discuss. he just didn't want to do it. Or B) he actually has a different way he could do something. Such as recently, he fought about putting away his dressup clothes. Why? Because he hated folding them to make them fit in a drawer. We discussed it after he was done cleaning up and decided to haul up a large unused suitcase he could toss them all into in the future.

 

Honestly, I don't tell my kids to do stuff just because I want to, which is what "because I said so" implies. I tell them to do stuff because we're a family and we work together, it will help teach them responsibility, it will make them better adults, and because certain tasks must be done to make life pleasant for everyone. I don't want them growing up to blindly follow authority because someone said so, i want them to grow up doing what needs to be done and understanding why they do it. His temper and defiance has softened quite a bit in the last few years since DH got on board with my method. I think it's because DS knows his thoughts and feelings will be heard and respected, even if we still decide he must do things our way.

[happi duck]

DS7 is like that. He'll fight tooth and nail sometimes. But I can't just do the "because I said so" line. My parents used that on me a lot (I also had authority issues) and it really upset me as a child that they wouldn't listen to me, which made me fight back all the harder. It also made me sometimes wonder if what I had to say wasn't important to my parents, which in kid logic means "what if I'm not important to my parents?" I fought all through high school and I still bristle when I hear my parents say that to my kids.after

 

Instead, when DS starts to argue, I tell him we will discuss his thoughts on it AFTER he does whatever he has been asked. If he asks why he has to do something, I tell him because it's his responsibility and we will discuss it AFTER the task is compete. Then yes, I walk away if he keeps arguing and discipline as necessary if he completely refuses. I've found after the fact he either A) has nothing to discuss. he just didn't want to do it. Or B) he actually has a different way he could do something. Such as recently, he fought about putting away his dressup clothes. Why? Because he hated folding them to make them fit in a drawer. We discussed it after he was done cleaning up and decided to haul up a large unused suitcase he could toss them all into in the future.

 

Honestly, I don't tell my kids to do stuff just because I want to, which is what "because I said so" implies. I tell them to do stuff because we're a family and we work together, it will help teach them responsibility, it will make them better adults, and because certain tasks must be done to make life pleasant for everyone. I don't want them growing up to blindly follow authority because someone said so, i want them to grow up doing what needs to be done and understanding why they do it. His temper and defiance has softened quite a bit in the last few years since DH got on board with my method. I think it's because DS knows his thoughts and feelings will be heard and respected, even if we still decide he must do things our way.

 

 

 

Well said.

[Chris in VA]

I think the common thread in some of these posts is the ability to and necessity of disengaging from the debate with our kiddos. LOVE the idea of "You do it first, discuss after for next time."

 

Accepting authority is a life-skill--"Accepting NO" is really a very important part of life. One of ours had such trouble with it--we realized we had given him the impression that his role as a child was equal in authority to ours as parents. He was equal in value, but not in role. It took him years to get over the fact that he was not consulted and his opinion followed in the matter of us moving to VA from TX when he was 9yo, for example. It was a mistake we made, always giving him too much choice and placating him instead of allowing him to rest in boundaries WE decided for him. I'm not saying don't give any choices, I'm just saying too much responsibility for creating his own boundaries really messed him up. YMMV.

[TXMomof4]

I think the common thread in some of these posts is the ability to and necessity of disengaging from the debate with our kiddos. LOVE the idea of "You do it first, discuss after for next time."

 

Accepting authority is a life-skill--"Accepting NO" is really a very important part of life. One of ours had such trouble with it--we realized we had given him the impression that his role as a child was equal in authority to ours as parents. He was equal in value, but not in role. It took him years to get over the fact that he was not consulted and his opinion followed in the matter of us moving to VA from TX when he was 9yo, for example. It was a mistake we made, always giving him too much choice and placating him instead of allowing him to rest in boundaries WE decided for him. I'm not saying don't give any choices, I'm just saying too much responsibility for creating his own boundaries really messed him up. YMMV.

 

:iagree:My dd 9 has been given way to much freedom to 'discuss' everything. I'll take full responsibility. I also hate the "because I said so" argument, but it's gotten to the point now that she HAS to be right. Even if I walk away from the 'discussion' she will keep talking just to have the last word. We're slowly cracking down. I don't mind real discussion, I don't even mind a little commentary - but giving a little has lead to a little tyrant and she's going to have to learn that I'm still the mommy. Of course, she seldom pulls this with dh. She knows she'll never win with him -I'm definitely the sucker in our family.

 

I'm wondering if there's some hormonal stuff starting with her as well, that might explain some of the attitude changes.

[hana]

do it because I said so is something I never want my kids to do.

 

I think its a horrible method, a terrible message and a miserable approach to parenting.

 

Do you have any suggestions to deal with OP's situation?

[TammyS]

Even if I walk away from the 'discussion' she will keep talking just to have the last word.

 

One of the best pieces of parenting advice I ever heard was:

 

Got a kid who wants the last word? Let them have it. It doesn't change anything. They can insert their final comment about the issue while you are walking away, getting on with your life. So they got the last word? Big whoop. They still have to go do (or not) whatever they were told.

[TammyS]

Accepting authority is a life-skill--"Accepting NO" is really a very important part of life.

 

I really strongly believe this. You cannot responsibly question authority, IMO, until you have first learned to obey authority. Because until you do, you will never know the difference between questioning and using a question format to argue (which is really what kids are doing 99% of the time). And you will never learn to just shut up and do what you are told, which you need to be able to do if you want to hold a job.

 

My sisters husband just lost his FedEx business because he argued with a terminal manager. They revoked his contract over one, two minute "questioning" (which was really an argument). He owned multiple routes and multiple trucks. He still owns the trucks, and the payments for them, which is mortgaged against their house. They are probably going to lose their house and end up living with my mother, with their three kids. All because my BIL couldn't keep his trap shut.

[Remudamom]

If you don't like "because I said so" say "because you are part of this family and you will do your part." Then walk away. Have set circumstances and stick to them.

[redsnapper]

If you don't like "because I said so" say "because you are part of this family and you will do your part." Then walk away. Have set circumstances and stick to them.

 

Now this is what I was talking about :iagree:

 

I didn't literally mean telling my son "because I said so". That was just a summation of, "obey because that is what is required." Believe me, we have discussed with him for years the "why" of things: why he has to do chores, why he has to share, etc. But like others have posted, it has given him a sense of power over the situation, a way to "fight" the law in our home, so to speak. Both DH and I desire to treat our kids with respect, and to respect their intelligence and independence. Yet in allowing so MUCh discussion we have, in a sense, shown weakness as leaders and thus have not earned our son's respect for our authority.

 

I really like what some of you have mentioned. Be firm. State the rule or the instruction or the discipline. Expect obedience. Not allow discussion until obedience has happened. Then allow for discussion later.

 

Partly my fear here, is that my ds is so much like my older brother, who also has a problem with authority. It has lead to a level of pridefulness in him that has caused him problems in life, in work, and in relationships. I need to do things differently than my parents did, and it starts by knowing that, and by marrying a wonderful man who parents so differently from my dad, and who also is very purposeful as a dad (love that guy!).

 

Thanks all!

=)

 

PS>> @hana - thank you ;)

[TeenagerMom]

We struggle with this with our children as well. DH's opinion is that they should learn to immediately comply simply because in an emergency situation, their life will depend on it. He won't have TIME to explain they need to get down or hide if an armed gunman enters a building where they are or if a car is careening around a corner at them.

 

I tend to somewhat agree with him. My DD has gotten a lot better with age. DS is still a work in progress.

[Trish]

do it because I said so is something I never want my kids to do.

 

I think its a horrible method, a terrible message and a miserable approach to parenting.

 

I think it works better than "do it if you WANT to." Ultimately, no matter how lovingly we explain our reasons for why they must do X,Y or Z, (and we do cover these reasons at our family meetings), they usually will not do X, Y and/or Z unless it's "because we said so," and oftentimes backed up with a consequence if they don't. Example, my 8th grader is ONLY wearing deodorant "because I said so." Eventually he may choose to, but for now, it's "because I said so." Or if it's the phrase that's bothering you, "because I asked you to."

 

I managed to survive this horrible method with its terrible message and, er, my parents' so-called "miserable approach to parenting," because we (mostly) did what we were told, and our parents loved us and showed that. And yes I think "because I said so" is a good enough reason to obey your parents. :glare:

[redsnapper]

Trish, I'd agree. The basic root of it is that we do need to obey authority simply because it is the authority. Yet we can earn their respect in the process by treating them with respect even as we demand obedience. It's all in the manner in which you lead. Lead with arrogrance and pridefulness, they may obey but they'll hate you. Lead with humility in your firmness and they'll respect the man (or woman) behind the title of parent.