Calling cats and kids (children) in your culture.....

[momof2cm]

I have encountered many differences, but luckily I live in California. People are used to all these cultural differences and natives are very relaxed and tolerant about it.

 

Both my husband and I are from Belgium. We have lived in the States for 15 years. Our kids were born here and they enjoy the best of both cultures.

 

We are often perceived as a-social because we are quiet in public. Trust me, we have many friends, but we are not as loud as Americans and we do not just start talking to strangers. For me, that was something to get used to.

 

Obviously, there are many food differences. My friends used to make fun of me because I eat the nastiest, creepiest (escargots) things. But after they ate these dishes at my house, the were hooked. ;) I had the hardest time with breakfast. We are used to a light breakfast. We will eat a boiled egg with fresh baked bread, but that is considered a heavier meal. So when I saw steak and eggs on a menu for the first time, I was stunned! I still cannot eat this in the morning but my dh has adjusted well. :lol: And, we never eat a salad before our dinner but with our dinner. Oh, and a glass of wine is only half filled, not to the brim.

 

I have learned to prepare exotic dishes because all the ingredients ar available at the grocery stores in CA. I hardly eat real Belgian food anymore.:D

 

What I do love about American meals is the provision of lots of drinks and a glass of water. I learned to drink a lot more here. In Belgium one will receive a tiny glass which is drained in an instant.

 

Something my family overseas still cannot understand is my love for casual clothing. I love the relaxed style in CA! And I love it even more that I can just wear whatever I want. Who cares about fashion!? That would not fly in Belgium.

 

I can go on and on.

[Lucy in Australia]

And has anyone mentioned the kissing/greeting thing? I grew up in the south of France where we kiss like we breathe ;) I came to Australia in the days when it was not so cool to be multi-cultural and things were still done the proper Anglo-Saxon way :) I don't know how many people I scared when I lunged at them to say hello. I still feel mildly stressed when greeting people I don't know really well.

 

And talking about tea & coffee, when I took my poor, tea-drinking Dh to France the first time, soon after we were married, he was the one getting stressed whenever he would order tea in a restaurant because he never knew what he would get. Camomile tea, fruit infusions, fennel tea... It was always quite the surprise. All he wanted was a good cup of English Breakfast tea :lol:

[JeneralMom]

And has anyone mentioned the kissing/greeting thing? I grew up in the south of France where we kiss like we breathe ;) I came to Australia in the days when it was not so cool to be multi-cultural and things were still done the proper Anglo-Saxon way :) I don't know how many people I scared when I lunged at them to say hello. I still feel mildly stressed when greeting people I don't know really well.

 

And talking about tea & coffee, when I took my poor, tea-drinking Dh to France the first time, soon after we were married, he was the one getting stressed whenever he would order tea in a restaurant because he never knew what he would get. Camomile tea, fruit infusions, fennel tea... It was always quite the surprise. All he wanted was a good cup of English Breakfast tea :lol:

 

I am from Quebec and we do kiss on the cheek as greeting. Unfortunately, it was so ingrained in me that I kept doing it in when I moved to the Midwest (despite being accutely shy) until someone told me that I needed to back off and not be such a forward hussy. Apparently, I was getting a reputation as a lady of loose morals. Also, we would never just randomly wave at someone so when I moved to the Midwest it freaked me out that people would wave at me from cars or stop me on the street to chat. I must have come off as so rude for the first couple of years.

 

Actually in direct opposition to what Cleo observed, I as a an Anglophone Montrealer was always taught to approach a crowd quietly and wait to be acknowledge or to never barge into a conversation. It took a really really long time to figure that one out and people thought I was a wallflower.

 

Now that we've moved to Aus I realize that after my time in the USA I am much louder than anyone else, I do tend to shout to my children.

 

Oh, and Minou means "kitty" so in English we wouldn't yell "here cat, cat, cat" we would yell "here kitty, kitty" so minou would be properly used.

[Joan in GE]

we do not just start talking to strangers. For me, that was something to get used to.

 

Interesting connection...I'd just thought of people as unfriendly in some countries - but guess it is not talking to 'strangers'...It is so American to talk to strangers. A Kenyan friend told me how a stranger at a bus stop in NY told her all kinds of terrible problems he was going through, then just got on the bus and never saw her again......I'm afraid I'm still very American in respect to talking to strangers....

 

Obviously, there are many food differences. My friends used to make fun of me because I eat the nastiest, creepiest (escargots) things. But after they ate these dishes at my house, the were hooked. ;)

When we lived in SE Asia, they had those huge snails in the garden....I finally found a recipe for snails, as I really like them too, or maybe it is just the garlic, parsley and butter:)? But it was soooo complicated to me at the time that I never did do it. Do you make them yourself?

In Belgium one will receive a tiny glass which is drained in an instant.

 

At least it doesn't have all that 'ice' in it:001_smile: Guess I'm more European in that way...

 

Something my family overseas still cannot understand is my love for casual clothing. I love the relaxed style in CA! And I love it even more that I can just wear whatever I want. Who cares about fashion!? That would not fly in Belgium.

 

VERY true over here...I remember seeing a woman in the shops in her sweatpants...When first over here, I wouldn't think twice. Now she would stick out like a sore thumb. I couldn't understand why the kids would all arrive at soccer and have to change, then have to change again to go home....Ds would just go in his sweatpants and then bike home....His soccer coach was insisting that he had to shower there after practice...

 

I can go on and on.

 

Please tell us more!

 

We were just traveling in a country where I could not find any really surprising differences (I was looking for something for this thread), but it did remind me of a funny speed incident...

 

We were speeding down the highway and my husband was complaining that the car couldn't go any faster. Background: here in CH the speed limit is 120 km/hr and in France it is 130...He's used to going 140+....Ok back to the car that couldn't go any faster with the pedal to the floor...the whole car was vibrating and we were passing everybody.:) I looked over and it said 100 which was slow for our normal. But then it dawned on me that it was a rental car and the speedometer was in Miles! because we were in a country where they go by 'miles'- so we were really going pretty fast. :lol:

 

And has anyone mentioned the kissing/greeting thing? I grew up in the south of France where we kiss like we breathe ;) I came to Australia in the days when it was not so cool to be multi-cultural and things were still done the proper Anglo-Saxon way :) I don't know how many people I scared when I lunged at them to say hello. I still feel mildly stressed when greeting people I don't know really well.

 

It's fine to talk about it here....I did start a thread 'Greetings and Farewells' last year that you might find interesting...

 

I'll add that for people who are used to kissing, it can feel so cold in the US. I have an American friend here who has been here for awhile now. I want to kiss her when I see her - but I know she's uncomfortable with that - so I don't. But it does give a funny feeling to 'not'...when you feel affection for a friend. But I think it took me about 15 years to feel comfortable doing it....though I still have trouble in a large group...must be that efficiency thing....

 

Oh, and Minou means "kitty" so in English we wouldn't yell "here cat, cat, cat" we would yell "here kitty, kitty" so minou would be properly used.

 

Ah ha...I had just thought Minou was a proper name...I'd seen it in books capitalized (I think - if I'm remembering correctly)...I was thinking that 'chaton' meant 'kitten' but I guess that's what real translations are...not just the literal word, but the word used in society....

 

Joan

Edited November 4, 2012 by Joan in Geneva

[rieshy]

When we lived in Vienna (early '80's) my mom thought she was following the custom of airing out our down comforters by hanging them out the windows of our 3rd story apartment. After being screamed at by several elderly women who were standing on the street shaking their fists she realized that she was attempting to use the wrong windows and was guilty of being incredibly tacky. It's a funny memory... now:)

[Joan in GE]

When we lived in Vienna (early '80's) my mom thought she was following the custom of airing out our down comforters by hanging them out the windows of our 3rd story apartment. After being screamed at by several elderly women who were standing on the street shaking their fists she realized that she was attempting to use the wrong windows and was guilty of being incredibly tacky. It's a funny memory... now:)

 

I would never have guessed either! The longer I'm overseas the more I realize how many culturally inappropriate things I've done blindly.....That is one good thing about having an accent - they say - oh those Americans and shake their head....but give me more leeway than someone in their culture doing the same thing.....

 

Joan

[Giraffe]

 

 

I would never have guessed either! The longer I'm overseas the more I realize how many culturally inappropriate things I've done blindly.....That is one good thing about having an accent - they say - oh those Americans and shake their head....but give me more leeway than someone in their culture doing the same thing.....

 

Joan

 

 

Yep. I've loved reading this thread. Makes me feel a little less inept. I look back at all the things I've done wrong over the years and just thank goodness that Turks are very forgiving!

[Joan in GE]

thank goodness that Turks are very forgiving!

 

Yes some cultures are more forgiving than others....and sometimes they're forgiving in some ways and not in others....

 

I remember a woman who told me how she had gone back to her country (one in Europe) and hadn't gotten in line exactly correctly at the checkout....and the frowns she was getting....hmmmm, wondering if this is related to 'efficiency' (that link is a thread about efficiency)??? If everyone follows the rules exactly, then society is more efficient and less forgiving?

[Giraffe]

Yes some cultures are more forgiving than others....and sometimes they're forgiving in some ways and not in others....

 

I remember a woman who told me how she had gone back to her country (one in Europe) and hadn't gotten in line exactly correctly at the checkout....and the frowns she was getting....hmmmm, wondering if this is related to 'efficiency'(that link is a thread about efficiency)??? If everyone follows the rules exactly, then society is more efficient and less forgiving?

 

 

Oh geez, don't get me started about checkout lines in the grocery store! As an American I was used to the clerk or a bagger bagging the groceries. I was so slow at first that my order would sometimes get mixed up with the next order because that's one place where people here just keep on keeping on. Now when I go back to the US I freak the clerks out when I start frantically throwing things in bags myself, because checkout clerks here wait for no one!

 

I make a point of watching people so that I can at least pretend to blend in, so when I stumble it's usually spectacular and totally unexpected for those around me who think I might be Turkish (or at least a long time resident).

[Joan in GE]

I was so slow at first that my order would sometimes get mixed up with the next order because that's one place where people here just keep on keeping on. Now when I go back to the US I freak the clerks out when I start frantically throwing things in bags myself, because checkout clerks here wait for no one!

 

I make a point of watching people so that I can at least pretend to blend in, so when I stumble it's usually spectacular and totally unexpected for those around me who think I might be Turkish (or at least a long time resident).

 

Can you imagine what it would be like if you had a lot of children and therefore lots more food to pack? But then I guess you would have more time before the next person :-)

 

Interesting about trying to blend in.....that wasn't something on my radar for most of my time here (though I knew how to go to official meetings and look administrative)- and it caused my one son especially to have a fit when I wore bright pink socks in public....and drove to his school in a battered very old Renault 5 (Geneva is full of expensive cars - Audis, Mercedes, etc etc....) which unhappily died one cold morning....I think the kids were/are more conscious of trying to blend in than I have been....though I sometimes try to accommodate them.

 

 

Still, I tell them - look, your mom is different - for better or worse. You get a benefit in many ways - how many moms home educate here?

 

I read a pertinent quote this morning, from 1833. "Do not aim at peculiarity, but dare to be singular if principle or duty requires it." Caroline James :-)

 

Joan

[regentrude]

Can you imagine what it would be like if you had a lot of children and therefore lots more food to pack?

 

My friend in Germany has five kids and does one big shopping per week (when she gets a ride to the store as she has no car).

If you have a lot of stuff, you simply throw it back into your cart when the checker has scanned it and move out of the way to a packing table to pack. Just the way it works at Aldi in the US.

[regentrude]

 

Oh geez, don't get me started about checkout lines in the grocery store! As an American I was used to the clerk or a bagger bagging the groceries. I was so slow at first that my order would sometimes get mixed up with the next order because that's one place where people here just keep on keeping on. Now when I go back to the US I freak the clerks out when I start frantically throwing things in bags myself, because checkout clerks here wait for no one!

 

When I first lived in the US and had gotten used to packers, I was caught off guard several times when I returned back home to Germany for a visit; I would stare into space and completely forget that I had to pack. Even now I have to consciously remember to take shopping bags (here in the US, the bags live in the car.)

Btw, I now shop mostly at Aldi's and really like to pack my own groceries there. I hate the way the checkers at the other stores pack: if I bring my own bag, most have no concept how to pack a large grocery bag and won't believe me that, yes, it will hold all my items; if I forget my bags (which is rare), I get three times as many plastic bags as would have been necessary to hold my shopping. I much, much rather pack my own things in a systematic manner so the right stuff is together. (Maybe that's from conditioning by 30 years living in Germany?)

[Giraffe]

 

 

My friend in Germany has five kids and does one big shopping per week (when she gets a ride to the store as she has no car).

If you have a lot of stuff, you simply throw it back into your cart when the checker has scanned it and move out of the way to a packing table to pack. Just the way it works at Aldi in the US.

 

A packing table? A PACKING table?! My kingdom for a packing table! See, that would make sense!! Those crazy Germans...

 

[regentrude]

A packing table? A PACKING table?! My kingdom for a packing table! See, that would make sense!! Those crazy Germans...

 

To be fair, even in Germany they have them only in the big supermarkets, not in the corner stores. But that's where one would go to do the whole shopping for the week. In the smaller stores where you go every other day, they often don't have tables (although you could still step away from the counter and pack elsewhere)

[Joan in GE]

If you have a lot of stuff, you simply throw it back into your cart when the checker has scanned it and move out of the way to a packing table to pack.

 

I guess this bothers me because of handling the same food twice - not efficient :-) (Yes, I know you will say that it is efficient for the people behind you which is true)

 

 

I hate the way the checkers at the other stores pack: if I bring my own bag, most have no concept how to pack a large grocery bag and won't believe me that, yes, it will hold all my items; if I forget my bags (which is rare), I get three times as many plastic bags as would have been necessary to hold my shopping. I much, much rather pack my own things in a systematic manner so the right stuff is together. (Maybe that's from conditioning by 30 years living in Germany?)

 

I don't know the kind of bags in Germany but here they are either large strong plastic bags with an inner bottom and carrying bars across the top or large sturdy paper bags with handles that you have to pay for - about 35 c (so people normally reuse them several times) and finally end up putting paper in them for the recycler... Anyway, these types of bags are much easier to pack than that kind you get in the US at the typical food store.....

 

Joan

[regentrude]

I guess this bothers me because of handling the same food twice - not efficient :-) (Yes, I know you will say that it is efficient for the people behind you which is true)

 

Completely agree. Which I why I always manage to pack my bags before the checker is done, LOL.

 

I don't know the kind of bags in Germany but here they are either large strong plastic bags with an inner bottom and carrying bars across the top or large sturdy paper bags with handles that you have to pay for - about 35 c (so people normally reuse them several times) and finally end up putting paper in them for the recycler... Anyway, these types of bags are much easier to pack than that kind you get in the US at the typical food store.....

 

 

In Germany, the store does not provide bags, unless you pay (for a sturdy plastic bag with handles), and most people bring their own canvas bags or baskets. Which are so much roomier and nicer to pack.

Here in the US, the stores use flimsy plastic bags for free - the kind that rips on the second use. Many no longer have paper bags available (our Walmart does not; Kroeger does). Aldi's has sturdy handled plastic bags or paper bags, and you have to pay for both; I simply use a large cardboard box, since I drive to the store - it fits everything nicely, things tat need t be upright can be upright, and it is extremely quick to pack.

[Joan in GE]

I simply use a large cardboard box, since I drive to the store - it fits everything nicely, things tat need t be upright can be upright, and it is extremely quick to pack.

 

I tried those in France - where the grocery carts are larger :-) - but it got complicated filling then emptying at the checkout and refilling and the bags ended up being simpler. But maybe you use collapsible cartons? and store them under the cart?

 

Joan

[regentrude]

I tried those in France - where the grocery carts are larger :-) - but it got complicated filling then emptying at the checkout and refilling and the bags ended up being simpler. But maybe you use collapsible cartons? and store them under the cart?

 

Nope, I use a simple open top cardboard box from the store that used to have pasta boxes. I can put it under the cart, but mostly I'll have it in the cart, put the groceries next to it (and some into), and have it empty and out before the checker can start pushing my groceries over the scanner to put the scanned items in. Even at our lightning speed Aldi checkout.

[Joan in GE]

Belgians made fun of Dutch because we offer at coffeedrinking each, one cookie and close then the cookiebox (then opening it with the next round, so the cookies stay fresh).

In Belgium that is not done ;)

 

We were in France where a Parisian now married to a Dutch person told me what she preferred in the Netherlands...

 

She said it was so much easier to invite people over for a cup of coffee in the Netherlands...In Paris, you would invite people out to a restaurant. If you invited them to your home it was a very serious affair for which you would cook all day and the guests would bring very expensive presents (on the order of E150) and it maybe only happened once a year, while in the Netherlands, you could invite people over just for a cup of coffee - which she really liked.

 

I checked this anecdote with another Parisian who said that maybe the gift brought wouldn't be quite so expensive but that 'yes', dinner invitations are a very formal affair - even in the middle class.

 

Joan

[SarahW]

Belgians made fun of Dutch because we offer at coffeedrinking each, one cookie and close then the cookiebox (then opening it with the next round, so the cookies stay fresh).

In Belgium that is not done ;)

you make a plate with a diversity of cookies (and chocolate!) and that will be at the table all the time during the visit. You are allowed to take as many cookies as you want, in the Netherlands you wait until being served.

 

Another 'not done' thing is the place where you serve the coffee.

In the Netherlands you serve coffee in the livingroom, in Belgium at the kitchentable.

 

A last one:

when you are invited for the coffee in the Netherlands, they expect you at 10.00 (in the morning) or at 20.00 (in the evening), in the afternoon (15.00) you will be invited for 'tea'. Of course you can get tea at 10 en coffee at 15.00 but the word coffee or tea is implicating the time, and of course we think everybody knows that ;).

In Belgium you drink tea if you have to, as medicin. (or when you are a foreigner :lol:)

 

 

Oh, yes, that whole "would you like ONE cookie" line...lol. Even my Dutch in-laws and friends find the stingy cookie tin annoying.

 

But then I'm from the Midwest. There you put more cookies than a party 3x your size could possibly eat on the table, and all the ladies only nibble on one.

 

And I remember when my kid was about 3yo he went to a distant cousin's b-day party in The Netherlands. He refused the cake (because it had stuff on it) and then when he finished his juice box he went into the kitchen, opened the fridge door, and yelled "I want another juice!" At least he yelled that in Dutch, but still, I was so mortified.

 

About stingy cookies, I went to school with a girl who spent some time in Jordan. She got to be friends with some refugee girls there who invited her over to their house one evening to hang out and watch TV. She was very excited, and brought a pan of brownies for them to eat. Well, she put the pan between them on the floor with the spatula and then....she was the only one who ate any. My friend was offended that her friends didn't want any of her brownies, and the girls were offended that my friend brought a pan of cookies and didn't offer them any and ate them all herself. Yeah, even though she brought them to their house, she was supposed to offer each piece to them individually. They figured it out, and years later they laughed about it, but, ugh, I would have made the same mistake!

[Joan in GE]

Oh, yes, that whole "would you like ONE cookie" line...lol. Even my Dutch in-laws and friends find the stingy cookie tin annoying.

 

But then I'm from the Midwest. There you put more cookies than a party 3x your size could possibly eat on the table, and all the ladies only nibble on one.

 

And I remember when my kid was about 3yo he went to a distant cousin's b-day party in The Netherlands. He refused the cake (because it had stuff on it) and then when he finished his juice box he went into the kitchen, opened the fridge door, and yelled "I want another juice!" At least he yelled that in Dutch, but still, I was so mortified.

 

About stingy cookies, I went to school with a girl who spent some time in Jordan. She got to be friends with some refugee girls there who invited her over to their house one evening to hang out and watch TV. She was very excited, and brought a pan of brownies for them to eat. Well, she put the pan between them on the floor with the spatula and then....she was the only one who ate any. My friend was offended that her friends didn't want any of her brownies, and the girls were offended that my friend brought a pan of cookies and didn't offer them any and ate them all herself. Yeah, even though she brought them to their house, she was supposed to offer each piece to them individually. They figured it out, and years later they laughed about it, but, ugh, I would have made the same mistake!

 

 

 

Yes - isn't it something how different cultures can have such opposite customs??? and how lost we can be when the customs are the opposite of those which we know?

 

Joan

[eschuetter]

I love this thread. I wish I had something profound to share, but my mind has gone blank.

 

I could not agree more -- thanks to all for sharing your cultural adventures.

[umsami]

Whenever I visit DH's family in Egypt, the hospitality thing is tough. Arab hospitality (or Egyptian hospitality) is such that you will be offered tons of food...and it's impolite to refuse. You have to refuse like three times before they'll even consider believing you. Also, the culture is that leaving any food on your plate is completely wrong/offensive. So, while their piling all the food on your plate you need to figure out a way to eat it. :)

 

People seem to stay up very very late (to me), and will stop by very late to visit. Kids included...even if there is school the next day. Not sure how they manage. It does seem to be a very child-loving culture, though. Kids seem to be included with many things (at least that I saw).

 

One thing that bothered me is the lack of seat belts, car seats, and the like. Seat belts were added to the front seats of some cars maybe10-15 years ago. Car seats are virtually unheard of. I think part of it is the whole "Insha'Allah" (God-willing) culture. One's fate is predetermined, so why wear a seat belt? (Although there's a saying, "You should still tie your camel." (Kind of like still hitch up your horse...don't trust that God will keep it there for you.)

[Joan in GE]

That would explain why an Egyptian friend will offer so much food....

 

The "tie your camel" saying is great!!

 

Don't you think it is at least partially the heat of the day that keeps people up late? I saw the same in Spain - with kids out late....but then I can't say I've seen it in all hot countries....Hmmm...

[umsami]

That would explain why an Egyptian friend will offer so much food....

 

The "tie your camel" saying is great!!

 

Don't you think it is at least partially the heat of the day that keeps people up late? I saw the same in Spain - with kids out late....but then I can't say I've seen it in all hot countries....Hmmm...

 

 

 

Yes, it might be the heat...that's a good idea. During Ramadan, people basically stay up all night, and sleep all day... but even in other months, it's not unusual for people to be out at 10/11 at night with kids.

 

Food wise, breakfast is simple. Some people eat fuul (stewed fava beans), some eat cake (kind of like pound cake) or some cookies with tea, others eat cheese, cucumbers/salad, and bread.

 

Lunch is always the main meal of the day, and at least in my husband's time, kids would come home for lunch. It's usually around 1 p.m. or later. Then dinner is leftovers or something simple, around 7-8 p.m.... later if you're going out to eat or over to somebody's house.

 

Another thing that I found interesting is that eating fruit is really a production. :) It's often offered after the main meal...and might be dessert or dessert might be offered as well. Apples are peeled with a knife, oranges peeled....everything must be arranged "just so".

[Joan in GE]

Another thing that I found interesting is that eating fruit is really a production. :) It's often offered after the main meal...and might be dessert or dessert might be offered as well. Apples are peeled with a knife, oranges peeled....everything must be arranged "just so".

 

This part - about things being "just so" - reminded me of a complaint of my Spanish relative....she makes a dinner table look so elegant, with extremely simple settings - but it is the colors of the food, the table, and somehow the simplicity....and yes, everything has to be 'just so'. I put the carrots on the plate when I wasn't supposed to. We were supposed to eat the squid with it's ink first....then serve the orange carrots...etc.

 

I think there's a value in making it beautiful...it's somehow food for the eyes and mind, which all add up to a richer experience than just focusing on the food....

 

And that reminds me of Chinese restaurants (I forget whether it was in China or Malaysia) where someone told us that the Chinese did not want to see any fancy decorations in the restaurant because that meant it wasn't spent on the food....Perhaps that has changed or was local...it was already a long time ago....

 

But such differences....

 

Joan

[stripe]

I just read an article by a Saudi woman who is studying in the UK about how she's managing without a maid.

(Ha!)

 

Anyway part of it is her analysis of the differences in eating style and gatherings.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/449828

 

[Joan in GE]

I just read an article by a Saudi woman who is studying in the UK about how she's managing without a maid.

(Ha!)

 

Anyway part of it is her analysis of the differences in eating style and gatherings.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/449828

 

 

Very interesting! and neat to see how she has such perspective on herself...cross-cultural experiences can be so helpful in taking a new look at ourselves...

 

Joan