Mom2legomaniacs Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Ds is 10. I do own Teaching the Classics. I have not had time to study it yet though. I am curious as to what others do regarding discussing literature with your dc. Would anyone mind sharing this please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 In my case, I have a degree in English. I enjoy analyzing literature. It is something that comes easily to me. My dd is 11yo. So far it has worked just fine to discuss off the top of my head. However, in high school I intend to be more intentional about the process. I like the guidelines SWB enumerates in TWEM. If you are not a former English major who gets high on analysis, I would suggest using TWEM as a guide. There is also nothing wrong with using lit guides to spark discussion. Just please keep in mind that the authors of said lit guides are NOT the only ones with a valid opinion. With literature, the idea is to defend any ideas you have ABOUT the book using snippets (words, phrases, passages) FROM the book. You can supplement those snippets with facts about the author's life too. Furthermore, I suggest reading any given work (that you intend to analyze) twice. First, just read through to get a sense of the language and plot and characters. No analysis. Then read again, analyzing as you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I strongly, whole-heartedly and emphatically recommend you read the Well Educated Mind. I went to a college-prep high school, then college and grad school, and I never in all those years figured out how to analyze literature. It seemed like some innate skill you either had or didn't, and I assumed I didn't. The WEM breaks down the work of literary analysis into grammar/logic/rhetoric levels -- not the age levels we think of but levels of analysis -- with specific tasks for each level. The light bulb suddenly went off for me. It isn't rocket science after all!! It is now the method I use when we are going to tackle reading in a formal manner. But, even before I had read the WEM, and even now for all the fun books we read, I simply talk with my kids about the book -- the characters, the twists and turns of the plot and if they were unexpected or not, and what we like or don't like about the book. We often find a movie version of the book and then talk about what the movie makers got right or, more often, what they got wrong. The conversations are casual, they weave in and out of our days, sometimes lasting over the course of a week. I think having simple discussion about reading makes future literary essays a bit less daunting as sharing opinions about books is a natural part of life. One other tool I've used for tackling literature more formally has bee to use Sparknotes (sparknotes.com) which has a synopsis, character lists, context and short author biography, not to mention essay topics and quizzes, for lots of titles. It has been especially useful when the kids are reading something I've not read in years or have never read before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2legomaniacs Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 Problem is, I don't have anything off the top of my head in that area.:lol: I am a mathy gal. Discussing the fine points of literature is not my area at all. I know I will be able to do it, but am looking for a place to start, KWIM. A place to start since I have not been able to dive in to TTC yet. Can you recommend a small, easy list of things that I can begin with until I have a chance to do TTC, please? Just a few ideas to get me jump started, you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 info that perhaps you could use. We use and I highly recommend CLE reading. CLE reading helps us to carry over what we've learned with their program to understand and analyze longer works. It's a reader and 5 workbooks for 16 weeks of reading if used 5 days/wk. (we break it up with novels in between units). CLE reading 5 includes: SUNRISE READING 500 – Open Windows LightUnit 501 Vocabulary words Cause and effect Identifying strong, active verbs Describing story characters Identifying similes Defining words from context Choosing facts to support a statement Writing progressive degrees of a concept Working with personification Proving or disproving statements about a story Identifying and interpreting figures of speech Completing analogies Inferring facts not directly stated Understanding circumstantial evidence and proof Defining and using homographs Understanding the term idiom Interpreting common idioms Answering five W questions Numbering story events in order Telling what story characters learned from the way God worked Listing traits of story characters Working with rhythm and rhyme scheme in poetry LightUnit 502 Working with vocabulary words Defining words from context Understanding a proverb Creating an alternate story title Identifying character’s feelings Identifying the most important event in a story Completing analogies that have more than one correct answer Understanding a nonverbal message Predicting what happened after the story Inferring facts not directly stated Marking poetic rhythm Using principle and principal Scanning for answers or topics Evaluating story characters’ actions Identifying a story’s main lesson Understanding the meaning of prejudice and its foolishness Identifying a biography Defining foot as used in poetry Identifying metrical feet in a poem Thinking about race prejudice Working with synonyms Marking rhythm in a poem LightUnit 503 Working with vocabulary words Inferring facts not directly stated Telling what could have happened Identifying main ideas and summaries Describing story characters Identifying a characters fears and hardships Learning about other inventions of Benjamin Franklin Marking poetic rhythm and meter Working with perfect and imperfect rhyme Numbering unstated events in order Identifying figures of speech Defining and identifying metaphors Finding evidence to support statements Outlining a simple story plot Explaining a figure of speech Identifying metaphors, similes, and personification Defining words from their context Suggesting others whom the sinking of the Titanic would have affected Comparing a poem and a story Identifying main ideas of paragraphs Explaining the meanings of sentences Understanding conflict, internal conflict, and external conflict Identifying areas of conflict in the story LightUnit 504: Out in Nature Working with vocabulary words Identifying cause and effect Identifying the story purpose and details that further the story purpose Working with guide words Using the dictionary Finding metaphors in the Bible Inferring facts not directly stated Defining biography Identifying a metaphor in a poem Scanning to locate facts Writing an essay imagining he is Peter walking on the water Identifying a metaphor from the story Defining words from their context Marking the rhyme scheme of a poem Writing another title for the story Making a prediction Categorizing natural resources Naming reference books needed to find answers to given questions Identifying hints of how a character will act Defining free verse Identifying main ideas, story lessons, and summaries of stories Completing a poetic couplet Reading about KJV Bible Rewriting KJV phrases in modern English Identifying characters, setting, external and internal conflict in the story Understanding a character’s actions Imagining what might have happened LightUnit 505 Working with vocabulary words. Understanding story characters’ actions and feelings Describing story characters Working with main idea, story lesson, and summary Thinking about idle words Working with personification Making a simple outline of a story Categorizing words Explaining an idiom Identifying emotions as shown by words Interpreting figures of speech Defining circumstantial evidence Scanning for answers Imagining details not given Imagining story characters’ feelings and explaining possible reasons for their actions Telling what might have happened Defining words from their context Inferring facts not directly stated Identifying similes Choosing exact, specific verbs to replace weak ones Learning the term epigram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie in OR Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I have just the thing for you! It's called Quick Flip Questions for Critical Thinking published by Edupress. It's this small little flip chart that has 6 levels of questions depending on what you are trying to accomplish. And it's cheap (I think I paid $4 or $5 for it). Level 1 are questions for Knowledge ("What is...?" "How would you explain....?"); Level II is Comprehension ("How would you rephrase the meaning of...?"); Level III is Application ("What would result if...?"); Level IV is Analysis ("How is ____ related to _____?"); Level V is Synthesis ("Can you predict the outcome if...?" "How would you adapt _____ to create a different ____?"); Level VI is Evaluation ("Would it be better if...?" "What would you cite to defend the actions of....?") You can Google it or try their website: www.edupressinc.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyinNNV Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I like asking questions like these: http://www.teachers.ash.org.au/researchskills/Dalton.htm HTH, Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deece in MN Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Problem is, I don't have anything off the top of my head in that area.:lol: I am a mathy gal. Discussing the fine points of literature is not my area at all. I know I will be able to do it, but am looking for a place to start, KWIM. A place to start since I have not been able to dive in to TTC yet. Can you recommend a small, easy list of things that I can begin with until I have a chance to do TTC, please? Just a few ideas to get me jump started, you know? I would start simple. Take some of the basic literary terms and start by using those as a base for asking questions. Characters 1) Who is/are the main character(s)? What are they like? Here is where you can introduce protagonist and antagonist, if you want. 2) Do you identify with the main character? Why or why not? 3) Do you like or dislike the main character? Why or why not? Setting 1) Where does the story take place? 2) What time period is the story set in? 3) Is the setting a real place or imaginary? Plot 1) What are the major events of the story? 2) Can you identify the climax of the story? 3) How is the conflict resolved? Conflict 1) What type(s) of conflict are in the story? This is where you can introduce types of conflict: man v. man, man v. nature, man v. society, etc. 2) What is the main conflict of the story? Theme 1) What is the overall theme of the story? You can introduce basic themes: good v. evil, coming of age, disobedience, overcoming the odds, etc. 2) Is there a moral or message the author is trying to share? These are some basic questions to get started with. There are so many more you can ask. Sometimes just by asking one question the discussion will take on a life of it's own. You don't have to ask all the questions for a story and usually it is better not to. I would start by choosing one aspect to focus on and discuss that. The next time choose a different aspect, etc. The younger you start with introducing and talking about the different elements of a story, the easier it will be later on. Don't feel like you have to do a major analysis of a work at this age. An introduction of the basic elements and talking about them occassionally will be enough to lay a foundation. We are working with TTC now and I am really enjoying it. I decided to work through the stories in the program with my kids. I prewatched all the DVD's and now am going through them with my dc. It is fun to watch the wheels turning in their minds and how they react to the stories. I pause the DVD so we can discuss the questions and then we see what the tv people had to say. It is fun when my dc watch and go "Hey, that is what I said!". :) Anyway, have fun with it. Keep it casual and enjoyable and it will all work out just fine. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I use a variety of resources - TTC, Critical Conditioning, How to Read a Book, WEM, Ruth Beechick, websites (like this, this, and this.) Flip through your TTC manual, and you can get some ideas before you watch it. But I really encourage you to carve out time to watch it soon! Specifically, what we do: I have a list of books for the year that each dc and I will discuss. I read them ahead of time and take notes. After they read them (or during, depending on how long the book is,) we discuss and I use different methods to check comprehension. We also talk about literary technique, etc. Sometimes I use a literature guide, sometimes I make it up myself. They also have a list of books that they write repsonses to, and I check those over. Finally, they have a list that they are just to read without any of the above. I still read these, though, so that we can talk about them if they want. The Emily Fisher talk "Literature" from the Veritas Press Teacher Training is invaluable. You can get it through Wordmp3.com. It gives a great overview of what we are trying to accomplish, as well as specific steps to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2legomaniacs Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 Thanks to you all for such wonderful help and resources. I started school this week, before I have had a chance to get all of my work done! Ds started reading a book for assigned reading. I just wanted some quick ideas so that if he finishes before I have had a chance to watch the TTC dvds and such, I could go ahead and do something with him! Now I have even more ideas and resources from which to glean information. Thanks for sharing with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I am in the middle of watching TTC. I know diddly squat about lit analysis, but if you have the syllabus I'd recommend you look through there. Reading through the first two lessons and reviewing the socratic questions may give you a place to start. I started outlining our plans today, we are reading Bulfinch's Mythology. I preread and highlighted some points within the text to bring up and discuss. We are starting with baby steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 We sometimes use a form from the Senior High Form-U-La book. (We've used it in 4th-6th grades, with a few adaptations.) It has a few of the usuals on there -- noting the author, what "person" it is written in, what time period it's about, etc. But the part my son likes best is where he gives a number (1-5?) for the book's value in various categories (historical, scientific, moral, religious, even tear-jerking value LOL). He likes that he doesn't have to write much... I like taking his eval in hand and asking him why he chose to give the book a 2 for moral value, etc. I find out some interesting thoughts in my ds little brain :o) Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I love much of the advice above- to boil it down to something simple until you feel up to speed Ask-Who, What, When, Where, Why and How. That will get them thinking of the basics of plot, character, settings and action/motivation. Perhaps a good warm up exercise before you dig in deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Shock! Horror! Yes, you read that subject line right: In my opinion, a 10 year old child doesn't need to engage in literary analysis. Read. Enjoy. Chat informally if you're so led. Rinse and repeat ~ as the saying goes 'round these parts.;) I cringe when I hear/read detailed means of "discussing" literature with young ones. I'm so glad no one forced me to do that when I was 10; it likely would have led me to do a U-turn as far as my high interest in literature was concerned. Don't sweat it. Ten is young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Have you seen the suggested questions that SWB did for discussing lit? They may be in WEM, rather than WTM. She provides some great starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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