Student failing Science. Help!

[Paisley Hedgehog]

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[Brigid in NC]

Shari - perhaps there is a local high school student (or adult) who could meet with your son once a week and tutor him. Finding tutors who will help with subjects that are challenging for your student--and that you don't want to teach (I'm right there with you on science!)--is a bit of an added expense, but in our area there are always older high schoolers looking to make a little extra $. I have seen a lot of success with one-on-one tutoring to help reinforce, explain, and fill gaps. Good luck! :)

[regentrude]

Before you can find a solution, you need to diagnose what exactly is causing the difficulties. Is he lacking math skills? Which? Where is he in math? What materials did he use to get there? On what math is he currently working?

Or is it something else?

[Chris in PA]

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Edited August 19, 2012 by Chris in PA

[SkateLeft]

Hmm. I'm not familiar with BJU physical science, but generally "physical science" doesn't incorporate much math beyond basic arithmetic. It's very unusual for a physical science course to be "math-heavy." (That's part of the reason why, as you pointed out, many of us don't consider physical science to be a high school level course.) Can I ask what level of math your son is at?

 

If your son lacks the math background to succeed in the class, then continuing with it is just going to frustrate him (and you!), and the poor grade he receives will stick on his transcript.

 

High school science will only require more and more math as you go along, so struggling at this early point is a red flag that he needs some math tutoring. I agree with the previous poster, in that it sounds like it might be helpful for you to hire someone to work with him. I'd focus on the math though, rather than just getting a tutor for science.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

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[bobbeym]

If he's not strong on math and science skills, and isn't possibly considering potential careers that might consider strong math and science, you might think about switching him to a less-intensive curriculum like PAC's Biology.

 

My DS is a just-get-it-done science kid. He doesn't like science and doesn't want to take it, and thinks "science requirements for a music/ministry major is a stupid requirement". [His words, not mine. :D] He's also an average student and pushing him to work on an AP level for most courses would only frustrated all of us.

 

This year he's taking Earth Science and next year we'll start using PAC for IPC and then Biology.

[klmama]

We are six weeks in to our year, and my 14yo 9th grade ds is doing very poorly in BJU Physical Science. We are using the dvd course with Mr Harmon, who is an excellent teacher. The class is very math-heavy, and ds just does. not. get. it. His current average is something like 55%.

 

I don't really want to switch gears at this point and find something else. For one thing, we will shortly be at the end of our first 9 weeks. For another, we paid big bucks for these materials. For a third, I don't want ds to get the idea that just because something is hard, he gets to quit.

 

All that being said, I don't want him to FAIL a class that's going on the transcript. Especially failing Physical Science, which Hive conventional wisdom says is too easy for high school anyway :glare:

 

WWYD? I'm really at a loss.

 

(Fwiw, this is one of those subjects where I am absolutely not comfortable stepping in and taking over the teaching.)

 

This is an extremely tough course for someone who is just learning algebra. If you want to continue with it, it's time for a math intensive. He needs to understand the SI, unit conversion, and scientific notation very well. However, you should also look ahead to the physics section of the course. Will he have the math he needs at that point in the year to be able to do what is expected in a reasonable amount of time? If not, NOW is the time either to change curricula or to change your plan of how much you will cover. Again, this course does not get easier. I would reconsider.

[regentrude]

One problem for sure is ds's note taking skills. He is one of those kids who relies on memory rather than notes, no matter how many times his memory has been shown to be faulty. I've started requiring him to show me his notes at the end of class every day, just so that I am sure he is doing it.

 

 

If there is a textbook, he needs top read the sections in the text that will be covered in class before that class, and take notes on his reading. That will make note taking in class much easier, because the student already has some idea what will be covered and is just filling in extra information and clarifications by the teacher.

 

Another big problem is the math, which has always been ds's weakest area. I have looked through the latest bombed test and the majority of it concerns conversions where you set up a bunch of different measurements and cancel them out and significant digits and other stuff. I don't much understand it myself :confused: so trying to explain it is out of the question.

 

Unit conversions is basic prealgebra: ratios and fractions. If your son is struggling with this, it is unlikely that he will succeed in the course. I would highly recommend that you focus on math and redo prealgebra with him, because he is not prepared for algebra. If you yourself have trouble with this, you should think about outsourcing his math education. Struggling with prealgebra is by far the bigger problem than failing the physical science class.

I would also switch science program. You are not sending the message that it is OK to quit - you are selecting a curriculum that does not set him up for failure from the very beginning.

 

As for the poster who suggested giving open book tests: IMO, this is very poor advice. A student who needs to book open to solve this kind of problems will just mimic the procedure of the examples and might just get the problem right, without any understanding what exactly is going on. He might get a passing grade, but he won't learn these basic skills. I do not consider this a valuable objective.

[JanetC]

 

I have looked through the latest bombed test and the majority of it concerns conversions where you set up a bunch of different measurements and cancel them out and significant digits and other stuff. I don't much understand it myself :confused: so trying to explain it is out of the question.

 

The Bridge Math program from Beginnings Publishing is good for those types of skills.

[AK_Mom4]

You might consider putting the dvd science program on hold for a few weeks and spend that time focusing on fractions and ratios. You wont really lose any time if he is failing the tests anyway.....

 

The "Key to" books are inexpensive and make an excellent short course for getting a subjecct mastered. "Key to Fractions" is 4 workbooks (I think) - we used them for DD when she really needed to lock in the fraction math in her brain. It only took a few weeks to work through all four books and it was well worth it to get it solid before she moved thru Algebra 1.

 

The other thing I would do is look through the BJU text - are all the chapters as math-heavy as the first ones? If so, then the suggestion of getting a tutor is a good one - someone to help him thru the math once a week.

[Mom22ns]

Another big problem is the math, which has always been ds's weakest area. We struggled through BJU's math through 6th grade, when I finally gave in and let him switch to Teaching Textbooks. I feel that BJU is objectively a much better program (higher expectations), but the comparatively easier TT fits ds's skill set. Soooo.... right now ds is at the beginning of TT Algebra I.

 

Algebra is a prerequisite for this course which is standard of high school level Physical Science classes. Either you (or someone) will have to do a lot of extra work on the math with him or you will need to switch to a science that doesn't require Algebra.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

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[Kathy in Richmond]

I have looked through the latest bombed test and the majority of it concerns conversions where you set up a bunch of different measurements and cancel them out and significant digits and other stuff. I don't much understand it myself :confused: so trying to explain it is out of the question.

 

The Bridge Math program from Beginnings Publishing is good for those types of skills.

 

:iagree: Bridge math is a short 7-week course that focuses precisely on these kinds of problems.

[AngieW in Texas]

Unfortunately, you do need to completely switch gears and do something else. Unit conversions are critical and while they are covered in prealgebra, most kids don't get comfortable with them until they finish Algebra I and some still have a hard time with them then.

 

My 16yo took chemistry for science majors at the cc this summer. She was shocked to the core that the teacher spent a full FOUR two-hour classes on unit conversions, scientific notation, and significant digits. That was a full 18% of the entire course. And some of the students still had difficulty with it. This course had a requirement of high school chemistry and Algebra II as a prerequisite.

 

You can still use BJU Physical Science, but it just isn't going to work this year. You might try Oak Meadow's Environmental Science. I know it isn't heavy on math.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[AngieW in Texas]

Beware of the biochemistry sections in holt biology. They are pretty difficult if you haven't already done high school chemistry or a solid physical science program.

 

He shouldn't have any problems with Oak Meadow's Environmental Science though.

[hose]

Just an option... you could switch over to the second half of the book while brushing up on math skills and then come back to the chemistry next semester. My son used that text his freshman year (while taking Algebra 1) and the physics was definitely was easier for him.

 

HTH.

[Heathermomster]

Shari, have you looked at AGS science books? The books are designed for high school students with SNs. I'm sorry, but I don't recall specifically your son's learning style or whether this science publisher would benefit your family.

 

This is not math related but more study related..Have you taught your son how to textmap or specifically taught him to read a non-fiction text? That skill may help your son with answering questions and note taking.

 

Good luck and please tell us how you remedy this situation.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Trilliums]

Art of Problem Solving has free online videos covering conversion factors. The whole unit on ratios in prealg might be worth watching.

[kroe1]

 

Unit conversions is basic prealgebra: ratios and fractions. If your son is struggling with this, it is unlikely that he will succeed in the course. I would highly recommend that you focus on math and redo prealgebra with him, because he is not prepared for algebra. If you yourself have trouble with this, you should think about outsourcing his math education. Struggling with prealgebra is by far the bigger problem than failing the physical science class.

I would also switch science program. You are not sending the message that it is OK to quit - you are selecting a curriculum that does not set him up for failure from the very beginning.

 

As for the poster who suggested giving open book tests: IMO, this is very poor advice. A student who needs to book open to solve this kind of problems will just mimic the procedure of the examples and might just get the problem right, without any understanding what exactly is going on. He might get a passing grade, but he won't learn these basic skills. I do not consider this a valuable objective.

 

:iagree:

[jbrig]

ignore this post--put in wrong place--sorry!

Edited August 30, 2012 by jbrig

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Mom22ns]

I've never used a DVD course from BJU, but all of the information on the tests is consistently covered in the books. Make sure he is reading the textbook assignments, not just watching the videos. That is a good lesson for college when the very same thing happens.

 

Having said that, I also think BJU is bad about picking out very minor unimportant details to put on tests. When my kids were younger and used BJU science, I would go through and make a review game with all the information I thought was important for the day before the test. Then I would check to see if I had missed anything on the test. Sometimes I had everything, sometimes half the test questions weren't included in what I thought was important.:glare:

Edited August 31, 2012 by Momto2Ns

[regentrude]

Update:

noticed that the review questions and assignments in the textbook often did not follow very well or make sense with the lecture that had just been completed. I have also looked over the chapter test that ds is taking today and a bunch of the questions are either 1) never addressed in the lecture or 2) are so poorly worded as to be unrecognizable as material that has been taught. That's NOT his fault. I sat through the lectures and understood the lesson, and I have no clue how to answer some of these test questions. It is like they are deliberately convoluted. :confused:

 

 

You say the material on the assignments is not covered in the lecture- is it covered in the textbook? Maybe the student needs to use both components? So, if there is assigned reading going with the lecture, is he doing the reading as well? Preferably before watching the lecture?

I can not imagine lectures that cover every point of a text, that would take forever. Typically, a lecture illustrates certain key concepts from a text, but the student is also responsible for knowing the material he just reads in the book.

Edited August 31, 2012 by regentrude

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm