ThePW Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Just started a few weeks ago with my son who is bright but never got to grips with multiplication in 3rd grade (and nor did the rest of his class that year) and then they moved on to other things. We came to a screeching halt last week because of that. I bought the Math Mammoth Multiplication unit and have just started that along with multiplication on Xtra Math, I'm hoping that will bring him up to speed. I discovered today while we were trying to work on factors that he cannot remember division (he did do it at school last year) and that caused another melt down. We are currently on Singapore 4A but I feel we cannot progress until he masters multiplication and division, the problem is that I'm not sure what to do next. Should I get another supplementation just for division, or do you think I should go back to Singapore 3A? (I think that's the level with multiplication and division) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I would stop everything until multiplying/dividing was in hand. Since he's done them but apparently not to mastery, you might have him do a few problems for each page, rather than the whole exercise, where he explains to you each step of what he's doing and why he's doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Element Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I would go back to 3A and teach from the HIG. Continue supplementing with the MM and using XtraMath daily. It may seem like math overkill but it is well worth it, I promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 It sounds like he doesn't understand the concepts. Xtra Math won't help with that. Math Mammoth will. I'm not saying not to do Xtra Math, but he should understand the concepts before you set him loose with that. Otherwise it's just rote memorization with no connection to reality in his mind. The fact that he doesn't remember division is a big red flag, too, indicating that he doesn't understand the concepts. Division IS Multiplication, just backwards. They are the same thing. Try getting some Cuisenaire rods and going over the concepts in these videos with him. He needs to "get it" before you make him practice it. My guess is that his school had a "Here's what you need to learn. Now memorize it." approach to math and that obviously didn't work for him. So, you'll want to make sure you don't follow the school's example! Singapore 2 is where they introduce multiplication. There's some basic multiplication in 3A, but they move on to multiplying larger numbers (615x4), division with remainders, and long division. Just so you know. If you already have Math Mammoth Multiplication, I'd hold off on getting Singapore, too, for now (unless you've got money to spare, I guess!) and just do MM and the videos I posted. Then start Xtra Math once he understands what it's all about. Oh, I'd also try to find living math books on the subject to read together! And play lots of games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourisenough Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I, too, have used XtraMath with my daughter to master multiplication, but not until AFTER she (1) fully understood the concept of multiplication and (2) done an entire book (Calculadder 2) of drill pages w/o time pressure. I think if you begin working on very fast timed drill (as in XtraMath) before he knows the facts, he'll be frustrated. I agree with Rosie that it sounds like he needs to thoroughly cover the concepts of multiplication and division, drill the facts until mastery is achieved, and THEN focus on speed. Math Mammoth seems like a good resource for this, especially since you already have it. He is lucky that you are taking the time to go back and shore up this essential math foundation. Advancing without understanding would be disastrous at this point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I'd also recommend just using MM's multiplication and division to re-teach it, and also use Rosie's videos. Singapore is kind of expensive to go back just for one or two topics. MM will take you step by step through the process and get him up to speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePW Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 Ok, thanks everyone.:001_smile: I'm looking at the Math Mammoth and will get one of the supplements that deals with division and we will work on that after we get done with the multiplication one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truebluexf Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I was just going to reiterate that MM is the way to go! We had to leave SM bc the multiplication work was so lacking...we went to MUS for DS though. MM is a good fit for DD though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The long division chapter in Singapore 3A is *HORRIBLE*. I use the MM "blue" Division 2 worktext to teach the topic with my kids and then use the chapter in Singapore 3A as additional practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The long division chapter in Singapore 3A is *HORRIBLE*. I use the MM "blue" Division 2 worktext to teach the topic with my kids and then use the chapter in Singapore 3A as additional practice. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Beyond horrible. Go with MM mult/div blue and Rosie's videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The long division chapter in Singapore 3A is *HORRIBLE*. I use the MM "blue" Division 2 worktext to teach the topic with my kids and then use the chapter in Singapore 3A as additional practice. Thanks for mentioning this. I think I might go back to MM for this concept too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Ok, this link takes you to a James Tanton video explaining a different way working multiplication problems. Toward the very end of video a hint of 'area multiplication' is shown I liked it very much. If his style appeals to you http://www.jamestanton.com/?category_name=think-math Now, for general purpose clean up and a more traditional how to get it done approach, Fractions and More, the text layout is a bit crowded, but the dilligent student could work their way through it. http://www.quaternionpress.com/buybooks.html ray Edited August 3, 2012 by Ray excess words removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Writerdaddy Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I would go back to 3A and teach from the HIG. Continue supplementing with the MM and using XtraMath daily. It may seem like math overkill but it is well worth it, I promise. I agree that he probably needs the HIG at level 3A or else some other guidance to learn the concepts around multiplication and division. I think it is always great to go back and cement the basic idea down. If you don't, your boy will eventually learn to do the mult and div anyway, but it might be only by knowing how to perform the techniques on paper rather than getting the concept. For division, I highly recommend you look at crewton ramone's video on youtube about division (or, I might have seen it on the $5 for 3 months pay site), where he passionately argues against the normal division algorithm we all learned in school. I also recommend a free trial at smarttutor.com, don't do the assessment, and just assign 3rd grade mult and div lessons to your kid for two weeks and not bother with the language arts or other math. It is pretty easy and painless to get across mult and div concepts with computer's moving pictures. If the level is too high, just go with 2nd grade. After a couple weeks of that, you might try reflexmath.com to get the math facts memorized in fun games, if he's allowed to play games. It's just a major headache to attempt long division without the math facts in place, although the concept of division can be taught any time. I think confidence is important to build up in math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The long division chapter in Singapore 3A is *HORRIBLE*. I use the MM "blue" Division 2 worktext to teach the topic with my kids and then use the chapter in Singapore 3A as additional practice. what you mean by horrible? Concept not taught properly? going too fast?? too slow?? I didn't use SM to teach my DS division but will use it for DD. A bit curious why is it terrible. Miquon teaches division in the red book which i think it was excellent. My 4 years old can even do some small number division in her head because she has the rod pictured in her head. I will highly recommend Miquon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Researcher Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Timez Attack at http://www.bigbrainz.com/ is a great game to solidify multiplication. There is a free and a paid version, but the best part is that kids usually love to play it and don't realize how much they are learning while playing a video game. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The long division chapter in Singapore 3A is *HORRIBLE*. I use the MM "blue" Division 2 worktext to teach the topic with my kids and then use the chapter in Singapore 3A as additional practice. Funny how different people can have completely different experiences with the same thing. I thought long division in Singapore was pretty straight forward and neither of my kids had problems with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 what you mean by horrible? Concept not taught properly? going too fast?? too slow?? I didn't use SM to teach my DS division but will use it for DD. A bit curious why is it terrible. There are major conceptual leaps in the chapter, probably the worst in all of the PM levels I've used. It jumps from point A to point E and assumes the student can follow along. The HIG isn't much help (at least not the U.S. edition one). Whereas MM walks the child through the in-between points in an incremental fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKlinda Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Multiplication and some of the division facts can be taught as a system instead of memorizing flash cards. Times 2 is a double. Divde by 2 cut the number in half. Times 3 is a double plus the number. Times 4 is a double plus a double. Divde by 4 cut the number in half twice. Times 5 count by fives. Divide by 5 count up by fives to the number. Times 6 is times five plus the number. Times 7 is times five plus a double. Times 8 is times four plus times four. Divde by 4 cut the number in half three times. Times 9 use the fold under the finger 'magic 9' method. Divide by 9 use the fold under the finger method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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