Need advice athletics and early admission to college

[Homeschoolmom3]

My son is only 12yrs. old but is more like a 9th grader and is moving at a fast pace and it has become hard to hold him back with his academics. If he continues he could "finish" high school 2 or 3 years early. I have talked to some colleges about him taking courses early and they are ok with it but I have to worry about him and his athletics. He dreams of playing baseball in college and I am not sure of the NCAA requirements and if he could be eligible when he turns 18 yrs. old to play for a college if he has already finished 2-3 years worth? Would this work and does anyone have any experience? Also, when trying to play sports for a high school team would I try to have him play with the kids his own age like where he would be normally grade level if he wasn't ahead? Hope this all makes since. Need some advice and peace!!!! Thanks so much!

[regentrude]

What is the hurry in graduating him early? I would solve the problem by simply using college level materials for homeschooling his high school years, if he is doing high school level work in middle school.

[mereminerals]

I know around here, that in order to play high school baseball the kids have to be 14 by September 1st of the school year they wish to play spring ball. It wouldn't matter what he was doing academically if he was younger than that. My son turned 15 in March and was playing against 18yo players with full beards. It is very intimidating. I honestly wouldn't recommend playing that far up (and most teams wouldn't be able to allow a player playing more than one level ahead). In regards to sports, my opinion is that they should play at the level they are age wise, especially the farther you go up. An 18yo playing against a 12 or even 13yo has so much advantage physically, that to me it isn't a fair match up. Unless, of course, the child entered into puberty very early and is able to stack up against the older, more physically mature players.

[plansrme]

Check the NCAA's website for details, but once he finishes high school, whatever that means where you are, his four or five years of NCAA eligibility starts running. So if he graduates from your high school at 14, he will be out, or nearly out, of eligibility by the time he is physically ready to play baseball with the big kids. Now, that said, you could probably do dual enrollment or something similar as part of your high school program, but be careful to call it dual enrollment, not early enrollment. Also, be careful what grade you put on his transcripts--once he starts high school, whatever that means where you are, he has four years to graduate high school before his NCAA eligibility starts running.

 

I also have an academically-advanced athlete, and eligibility is why I chose not to put my daughter into a local high school STEM magnet program after seventh grade--I was not sure she would be ready athletically at the end of eleventh grade by age. After a near-career-ending injury in her "eighth" grade year, it provided to be 100% the right decision. Instead, I threw 5 APs at her in "middle school," she will enter the magnet program with her age mates, and they have agreed to put her into advanced classes based on her middle school work. This is the best way I could find to not run out of classes for her.

 

 

Terri

[mathwonk]

this is an interesting problem. academically he is ahead, but athletically he will be better off being physically older. it depends on your priorities, but i would consider two things:

1) he will be a better athlete by waiting until he is older; on the other hand,

2) he probably will only have a short athletic career, and his academic development will determine his future for many decades.

 

(my son was briefly the best 3 point shooter in america, and temporarily played semi pro ball in europe, but that has not turned into a significant living.)

Edited August 3, 2012 by mathwonk

[Sunshine State Sue]

Our goal has always been 4 years of high school basketball and 4 years of college basketball . Ds started taking dual enrollment classes at CC in 10th grade. As long as he does not play basketball for the CC (he plays basketball for PS), he will be eligible to play college basketball when he graduates HS at the typical age. I verified this with Kevin, the hs liason at the NCAA. In fact, having CC classes on the transcript makes him a very attractive college basketball player because the schools and the NCAA know he is capable academically. And, if he gets a head start on his college credits in high school, it is possible to use his 4 years of college to earn his bachelor's and his master's.

 

Theoretically, ds could earn his AA while in HS, then complete his bachelor's and master's in 4 years at college. He's bright enough, but not that motivated. :001_huh:

 

HTH!

[Homeschoolmom3]

Sue, and what I am gathering for others. He can take as many college classes as long as we call it "dual enrollment"? Even if he takes 2 years of college we can just use that as extra classes on his "high school transcript"? NCAA would be okay with that? I would like him to attend the university for four years he really would like to finish his master's by the time he would have been if starting at a regular age. Thanks so much for all of your comments!!!! Things to think about!:)

[Candid]

I think from a purely athletic point of view that if he does graduate 2 - 3 years early, he will not make a college baseball team because he won't be ready for the level of competition on the field. My son is a freshmen and plays baseball and the difference between freshmen and seniors is astounding. Maybe other sports aren't like this, but baseball is.

[Homeschoolmom3]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear in regards to him playing baseball in college. I know academically he is ahead but I don't want to hold him back academically and he is motivated to finish early. I want to let him try for an athletic scholarship when he would actually graduate by age. My main question was if he could take college courses as much as he wanted would he still be eligible for NCAA requirements for playing when he becomes of age. Does this make sense? Thanks guys! My head is spinning.....thanks for all your inputs!!!!! :lol:

[cassiemc]

Very curious here as well. My 12 year old is a swimmer. He is doing 9th grade work this year. So far, we are planning to move along a grade a year, enroll in dual enrollment classes and AP classes and graduate at 18 so that he can swim all 4 years. I really like the idea of using the NCAA eligibility years to finish the BS and earn a Master's.

[Homeschoolmom3]

Cassie- Sounds like our kids are much alike. Hopefully we can glean from the older and wiser ones around here. :-) We have planned to do the same it sounds like. Just don't want to mess up his NCAA eligibility and at the same time not encourage his desire to finish his masters by the age of 21.

[snowbeltmom]

My main question was if he could take college courses as much as he wanted would he still be eligible for NCAA requirements for playing when he becomes of age.

 

This is an excellent question, and I would call Kevin at the NCAA Eligiblity Center and ask him directly.

 

My question would be if your son takes a slew of college courses in high school, would the 4 year college consider him an incoming freshman or a transfer student? The answer to this question may vary from college to college. If the college considered your son a transfer student, would that reduce his amount of NCAA eligibility, or would that simply enable him to continue to play baseball as a grad student?

 

:bigear:

Edited August 3, 2012 by snowbeltmom

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear in regards to him playing baseball in college. I know academically he is ahead but I don't want to hold him back academically and he is motivated to finish early. I want to let him try for an athletic scholarship when he would actually graduate by age. My main question was if he could take college courses as much as he wanted would he still be eligible for NCAA requirements for playing when he becomes of age. Does this make sense? Thanks guys! My head is spinning.....thanks for all your inputs!!!!! :lol:

 

So I have two thoughts. Graduating early removes the possibility of using those additional years to improve his academic profile. He could dual enroll or work on AP level courses and graduate with his age cohort and have a stronger transcript. (Not only will this be good if he doesn't end up as a recruited athlete, but also it may make him a more attractive recruit.)

 

If he graduates early, how will he maintain his sport training and proficiency until entering college around age 18? I ask this because there is a section in the NCAA eligibility booklet about the things that disqualifies a student from amatuer status. Delaying initial full-time college entry to play in organized sport competition is one of the disqualifiers. If you were thinking of having him enter college, but not try out until he's older; I'm still wondering how he would maintain his baseball skills without being on a team.

 

Have you looked at the resources in the NCAA eligibility center? There is a lot of info there. Not every possibility is addressed, but a lot of circumstances are.

[Homeschoolmom3]

I would rather have him do dual enrollement but I wasn't sure how many credits he can take before they would consider him more of a transfer student? He is planning on playing locally until he is of age to graduate officially anyway, I was just wondering about the eligibility for him and if there is a cut off for how many college credits he can aquire. Thanks everyone!

[Sunshine State Sue]

He can take as many college classes as long as we call it "dual enrollment"? Even if he takes 2 years of college we can just use that as extra classes on his "high school transcript"? NCAA would be okay with that?

NCAA would be happy with that. Their job is to make sure that student athletes are taking "college preparatory" classes. Obviously, CC is "college prep".

 

This is an excellent question, and I would call Kevin at the NCAA Eligiblity Center and ask him directly.

I also encourage you to call Kevin at the NCAA. Contact info is in this thread. At the bottom of the thread, hit the 'ncaa' tag and read what we've gleaned about them.

 

My question would be if your son takes a slew of college courses in high school, would the 4 year college consider him an incoming freshman or a transfer student? The answer to this question may vary from college to college. If the college considered your son a transfer student, would that reduce his amount of NCAA eligibilty, or would that simply enable him to continue to play baseball as a grad student?

Ah. Now this may be an issue. I have heard rumors of colleges that have a limit on the number of college credits a freshman may have. They do not seem to be in the majority, though. If you have an idea of what colleges your son is interested in, it would be good to check with them.

 

I have a friend who hs'ed her 5 children. 2 had all the classes required for an AA by the time the graduated HS. One was admitted as a freshman (at her request) to Florida Institute of Technology. One was admitted as a junior (at his request) to Georgia Tech. Neither were involved in sports, fwiw.

 

I would rather have him do dual enrollment but I wasn't sure how many credits he can take before they would consider him more of a transfer student?

Again, it may depend on the college. As a sports mom, I think about college and I realize that I don't want to limit where my son goes. So, I treat CC as a really good HS. If he gets college credit at his 4yr college for those CC classes, great! He can take a lighter load (which might not be bad as a student athlete) or work towards his master's degree in those 4 years. If he doesn't get college credit at his 4yr college for those CC classes, great! He will have an easier time as a student athlete. Or if it is important to him to get college credit for the CC classes, then he can limit those colleges.

 

Of course, he will get many offers. He willl find the perfect college with the exact amount of academic and athletic challenge for him. He will grow ambitious in the next 2 years. He will compete his master's degree in some highly valued engineering field. Then, he will break into the NBA. :cool:

 

a high school athlete's journey

 

HTH!

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sue in St Pete

[Candid]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear in regards to him playing baseball in college. I know academically he is ahead but I don't want to hold him back academically and he is motivated to finish early. I want to let him try for an athletic scholarship when he would actually graduate by age. My main question was if he could take college courses as much as he wanted would he still be eligible for NCAA requirements for playing when he becomes of age. Does this make sense? Thanks guys! My head is spinning.....thanks for all your inputs!!!!! :lol:

 

It does a bit, but I would really spend time talking with college coaches about this. I think you may have problems with eligibility and where is he going to play ball until college age, what do their rules say about students who are already graduated? This isn't just about academic eligibility, but about age eligibility and keeping his skills current and improving by playing with players his own level.

 

This could be perceived as gaming the system and give your son a bad rep with coaches that are striving to play within the rules; placing him on teams that are skating on the thin line of acceptability. It could wind up costing him both the ability to play in college and getting a ethical stain that will be hard to shake and will follow him into nonathletic employment.

 

Be very careful, research the rules for high school players who have graduated early. The problem is that most high school athletes don't have this problem and I'm guessing the rules may be murky and will change when you enter the system just by your entrance. It will make people think on the subject, and cause new rules to be developed. That could work for you, but it could work against you.

 

I'd lean much more to keeping him in high school but letting him take more and more advanced classes. If this means retaking some classes at college or not getting "credits" for them, so be it. College level athletes spend a lot of time on their athletics, so having some easy classes wouldn't be the end of the world. And once in a college, he may find some professors who will work with him to allow him to move ahead and skip some prereqs if he shows brilliance in his work. But again, the NCAA will have to come along for this ride.

[Bostonian]

What is the hurry in graduating him early? I would solve the problem by simply using college level materials for homeschooling his high school years, if he is doing high school level work in middle school.

 

The peak annual earnings of a smart college graduate may be $100K/year, so graduating from college X years early could mean $100K * X increased lifetime earnings. Other factors, such as sports participation (as the OP mentioned) or simply the pleasure of having your children at home with you should also be considered, of course. Yes, one can study college-level subjects at home, but once you get beyond the AP level, colleges usually will not give you any credit for such study.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The experience of gifted students here is that one can take as many dual enrollment classes as one pleases before one graduates high school. The eventual college may accept some or all, more likely some than all. The courses are usually transferred in after freshman year begins, so as not to affect the freshman scholarship eligibility. You'd need to check with the particular college to see what their procedure is.

 

The age of high school graduation is up to the family. In this area, with December K cutoff, it is routine for 12-turning-13 yrs-old-during-the-school year students to be taking high school courses as non-skipped 8th graders. 25% of students will take 9th grade math and science and receive a high school credit for each in the 8th grade. All students who complete FL1 by the end of 8th grade, and that's 95% of the cohort, get a high school credit. So roughly 25% enter 9th grade with 3 high school credits on the transcript. A few will grad in three years without compacting or testing out or summer courses. A child graduates high school when the family and school district agree that he's finished the requirements - there is no set age. You'd need to look at your state rules to see what flexibility you have.

 

Also, be aware that one can take graduate courses while still an undergrad and have them apply to the master's degree. Check the U's rules.

 

It is no longer unusual for some colleges to have a significant portion of the class coming in with credits, either through dual enrollment, AP test scores or credit by departmental examination. I think the number that UVA puts out is that their incoming class averages 5-7 AP courses (granted not all will have passed that many of their exams).

 

Even an advanced student, graduated early, will have had less time to amass these upper level courses before college entry.

 

It is true that not all dual enrollment or AP classes will receive credit. Sometimes there is a cap on credits. Sometimes the credits count mostly toward electives. Sometimes the student declines the credit because it was a course in their major and they want the full college course (not AP or CC).

 

The argument about wanting to graduate years early to get a head start on earnings IMHO needs to be tempered with a glance at how many college graduates are currently unemployed or underemployed. It is fast becoming not just a matter of being degreed, but what degree, and what network one developed through coursework, internships, coops etc. It may be worth spending a couple more years in before entering full-time four-year college working on upper level courses (AP or CC dual enrollment) so that doors to more selective and rewarding colleges stay as wide open as possible.

 

One last thought is to take a look at the number of baseball scholarships available and then to remind yourself that athletic scholarships may be cut in financial downturns, may be subject to a cut in the sport itself, or may be lost due to injury. I think a solid plan B is extra important for student athletes.

 

I'd love to think that my freshman swimmer could go on to a rewarding college swim experience along with his academics. But the What If of injury of loss of the team (not unusual with men's teams, sadly) has to stay in the back of my mind too.

[snowbeltmom]

A lot depends on what state you are in and what the policy is for academicallly advanced K-12 students.

 

As far as the NCAA is concerned, this is not always the case - educational programs established by an individual state board of education may not be acceptable to the NCAA. For example, my state's board of education has recently implemented a "credit flex program" for academically advanced students. However, this program is not acceptable to the NCAA, and high school students hoping to play at the collegiate level in their sports are advised not to participate in this program.

 

NCAA rules can trump state board of education policies. Based on my readings the last year on College Confidential, the NCAA rules and regulations also appear to change frequently, so as our kids' guidance counselors, we need to keep up to date with the NCAA website.

[K-FL]

I'll add my bit:

 

Dd#1 decided to run x-country her 1st semester @ U. She'd been a full load cc student, under dual-enrollment, for 3 yrs. She finished her AA when her age-mates were finishing hs. The only quirk w/NCAA was having all the correct classes for them to check off. Ex--dd didn't take Am. History at the cc, but had taken it at home in what would have been 8th grade (age wise) & so was not on her hs transcript. They needed to see that class (& that it was a hs level class) in order to check that box.

 

Also, both #1 & 2 were considered "freshman with credit" when they applied to schools (in-state privates & publics.) They were eligible for all the freshman scholarships, even though they were way ahead on the credit counts. Every school is different. Some don't care how many you have as long as they're DE/AP/etc, some do. Check the prospective schools for their policy--which is subject to change.

Edited August 3, 2012 by K-FL

[snowbeltmom]

You seem to be quoting me out of context.

To clarify: I was not writing of anything other than the cost differences.

Sorry about that Heigh Ho - I mistakenly read more into it. I just wanted to point out to the OP that the NCAA sets its own rules, sometimes contrary to a state board of education policy. It has been a challenge at times for the high school guidance counselors in our state.

[Candid]

The argument about wanting to graduate years early to get a head start on earnings IMHO needs to be tempered with a glance at how many college graduates are currently unemployed or underemployed. It is fast becoming not just a matter of being degreed, but what degree, and what network one developed through coursework, internships, coops etc. It may be worth spending a couple more years in before entering full-time four-year college working on upper level courses (AP or CC dual enrollment) so that doors to more selective and rewarding colleges stay as wide open as possible.

 

 

This is a good point AND there is hope for younger students: the small baby boom that occurred with the children of baby boomers is slowly drawing to an end. I've read that 2015 (high school class) is the end and after that there will be a down turn that may make getting into college and getting a first job after college easier.

[TranquilMind]

this is an interesting problem. academically he is ahead, but athletically he will be better off being physically older. it depends on your priorities, but i would consider two things:

1) he will be a better athlete by waiting until he is older; on the other hand,

2) he probably will only have a short athletic career, and his academic development will determine his future for many decades.

 

(my son was briefly the best 3 point shooter in america, and temporarily played semi pro ball in europe, but that has not turned into a significant living.)

This. You want him to be with agemates! My son is physically tall and strong, but he still notices that the guys a year ahead are more coordinated than his group when they scrimmage. Every year that changes.