Son is hitting a wall with Geometry...don't know where to go!

[Karie]

My son started Algebra in 6th grade and finished in the fall of his 7th grade year. He did really well and understood it. I was concerned about starting geometry because sometimes a child needs more mental maturity to handle it. We started off doing Jacob's geometry back in November and went through April. We took a 3 week break for some other things and weren't able to keep up with it. After 3 weeks, we started again and he declared that all 6 chapters of geometry made no sense to him and he was confused.

 

I decided to give Teaching Textbooks geometry a try because it's a bit easier. He did the first 2 chapters just fine and as soon as we hit chapter 3 with doing proofs, he has melted. He says it makes no sense!

 

I can't just skip math for a year until he matures!! He is starting 8th grade. I don't really know where to go with this situation. Ugh...what to do??? Any thoughts?

[Miss Marple]

Is there a reason you are trying to get algebra 1 and geometry finished before starting high school? Most students take those in high school usually starting in 9th grade. However there are some kids who are more math gifted who can do those courses earlier. If your son is frustrated by proofs, I would guess he is not ready for that level of thinking - which is fine and normal :)

 

You can always back off and do another program for 8th grade and begin geometry again in 9th. He might be more ready for it then. Maybe try something like Art of Problem Solving - you could certainly do algebra again with that program because it is a whole different beast than other programs. Or you could do some of their other programs: number theory, counting, etc.

 

It's sort of like potty training, IMO. If they aren't ready for it, you'll just make both of you frustrated by forcing it. Just waiting until the student is ready works so much better :)

[8filltheheart]

I use MUS's geo program as pre-geo. It is very lite on proofs, but is a good introduction to geo concepts.

[Kareni]

Another possibility might be to do Algebra 2 and return to Geometry in another year. One curriculum that follows that progression is Life of Fred.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[boscopup]

Have you looked at AoPS? Their Intro to Algebra is algebra 1 and 2. They also have Counting and Probability as well as Number Theory books that can be used after algebra 1.

 

I plan to use AoPS to help pad our sequence, as we'll likely be doing algebra in 5th. We will not do calculus in 9th. ;)

[kiana]

I'd do something else for a while and come back to geometry. Since he did well with algebra, the introductory discrete math books (counting and probability, number theory) from AOPS could be a possibility. Doing their intro to algebra book would also be a very good experience as it goes far beyond most algebra books both in the scope of material covered and in the level of difficulty of the problems.

 

Why not give him some input as well? AOPS has samples online -- see if that's something he'd enjoy, or if he'd rather do geo-without-proofs and then do geo-with-proofs in 9th grade, or do algebra 2 and then geometry in 9th grade.

[Trish]

This was why we didn't rush algebra. Maybe just strengthen his algebra skills and do some advanced work there before easing into geometry again. Also Key to Geometry might help.

[Tiramisu]

I use MUS's geo program as pre-geo. It is very lite on proofs, but is a good introduction to geo concepts.

 

:iagree:

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I would recommend taking a year and doing some kind of business math (banking, interest rates, mortgages, that kinda thing) and maybe something like Patty Paper Geometry then try Geometry again in 9th. See how that goes.

[mumto2]

How about one of the Singapore maths (NEM and Discovering) which integrate algebra and geometry. He might be more comfortable with a mix of work. They do proofs but I am not sure which year. Plus I would advise starting at the beginning.

 

LOF has a good geometry book but both the algebra and advanced algebra need to be completed first. Both are one semester courses.

 

Key to geometry has no proofs. You learn by doing constructions. There are no algebraic applications either. You learn the relationships through a series of constructions.

Edited August 4, 2012 by sawuk
correction

[Mom22ns]

I use MUS's geo program as pre-geo. It is very lite on proofs, but is a good introduction to geo concepts.

:iagree:

 

You could do MUS geometry, then return to Jacobs when he is ready. OR You could add in a second more challenging Algebra course (depending on what you used the first time)

 

This is the risk of starting Algebra early. It works for a few but most get stuck at some point. It's ok. It happens in ps where upper maths are being pushed early. They offer the high school math classes over two years for kids to slow down and developmentally catch up.

[Tiramisu]

:iagree:

 

You could do MUS geometry, then return to Jacobs when he is ready. OR You could add in a second more challenging Algebra course (depending on what you used the first time)

 

This is the risk of starting Algebra early. It works for a few but most get stuck at some point. It's ok. It happens in ps where upper maths are being pushed early. They offer the high school math classes over two years for kids to slow down and developmentally catch up.

 

I had one who seemed like a math whiz in the early years and I regret not going slower. Even doing it again, I don't know if I would slow down in the beginning, but I should have slowed down when I saw that things weren't coming as easily and skills weren't as automatic as they should have been. Advanced math is more abstract and different brains are ready for on a different timetable.

[Susan of Croton]

My ds completed NEM1 for 7th grade last year and I found the geometry problems to be fairly tough.

[masaki]

How about a tutor to help him get the hang of proofs and fill in whatever gaps there may be in his understanding of TT Geometry so far? We had a similar situation a couple of months ago with a few problems in the SM CWP 6 book. Ds hit a wall and my dh and I couldn't explain things for him in a way that really made sense to him. We used LiveOnline Math to hook up with a tutor and after a few sessions he got the hang of things and he's now sailing through the rest of the workbook. It was worth every penny to me. Sometimes there are bumps in the road, it doesn't necessarily mean curriculum is all wrong, just that a helping hand is in order. Good luck!

[EKS]

We had this exact same situation. Or almost exact.

 

My older son did Algebra I over two years in grades 5 and 6. We started with Jacobs Geometry (3rd edition) and found after a few chapters that it wasn't working. Then we tried the 2nd edition and the same thing happened.

 

So I decided that I needed time to think about the problem. I had my son work through Jacobs Mathematics: A Human Endeavor while I thought for a few months.

 

I finally decided to move to TT Geometry. And when we got to the proofs he fell apart. So I worked with him on proofs every single day until he got it. It took several weeks, but he did eventually get it.

 

Are you going over the proofs with him? If not, that's where I'd start. And it will take time. And it's important that *you* understand exactly what is going on with the proofs (each day before I worked with him, I made sure that I could come up with the proofs on my own). Also, make sure he knows that the answers for proofs in the solutions manual are not necessarily the only correct answers. (This is why, if I ever have to teach geometry again, I'll use Derek Owens instead of doing it myself because he does the grading.)

Edited August 4, 2012 by EKS