mompotter Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I have an upcoming 9th grader ds that just really struggles with writing. We used IEW a couple years but he balked at most of it and I struggled to teach it. Last year we used Essentials in Writing. He did not have 8th grade finished yet and so we used 7th grade. He did much better but I feel like he just isn't ready for 9th grade work yet. I keep getting drawn back to the WWE but feel like I am starting too late. I saw the Writing with Skill and wonder if it is too young. I was wondering if anyone had tried this with an older student and did you feel like it was enough for your reluctant writer. Were they able to do a lot of it on their own? Did you beef it up with extra assignments? Extra practice? I will be using SL core 100 (US History) and he does like writing about history. I have not seen the LA that comes with that but think that maybe I could pull some writing assignments from that to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mompotter Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtsmamtj Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I too have an incoming 9th grader. I just got Essentials in Writing 8. Of all of the writing programs we have used over the years he prefers Essentials (I haven't used IEW though). I am not conviced that he will ever write an analysis paper or major research paper though before he graduates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I used it last year with my 7th and 8th graders. I thought that it was a marvelous writing program, that went a long way to providing specific instruction on outlining, writing from outlines and general improvement in writing that they accomplished. (I also think that marking WWS as only a 5th grade curriculum oversimplifies the spectrum of writing ability that writers in these ages have.) If WWS addresses his needs where he is right now, then it's a tool to use. You may want something else that covers grammar & punctuation, as this is outside the scope of WWS. I would also suggest using the skills he's learning in WWS as he goes through other subjects. He can be outlining history books and science books from the other curriculum that you've already picked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mompotter Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I too have an incoming 9th grader. I just got Essentials in Writing 8. Of all of the writing programs we have used over the years he prefers Essentials (I haven't used IEW though). I am not conviced that he will ever write an analysis paper or major research paper though before he graduates. At least I am not alone! I may just stick with Essentials. When we used 7th grade last year I also used Easy Grammar. It was a good combination if your ds is lacking in grammar. We will use Easy Grammar again this year too. It doubles up a bit with Essentials but I feel like he needs it. He did mention that 8th really was similar to 7th but with a couple extra writing assignments. I may just go on to 9th in Essentials like I originally planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mompotter Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I used it last year with my 7th and 8th graders. I thought that it was a marvelous writing program, that went a long way to providing specific instruction on outlining, writing from outlines and general improvement in writing that they accomplished. (I also think that marking WWS as only a 5th grade curriculum oversimplifies the spectrum of writing ability that writers in these ages have.) If WWS addresses his needs where he is right now, then it's a tool to use. You may want something else that covers grammar & punctuation, as this is outside the scope of WWS. I would also suggest using the skills he's learning in WWS as he goes through other subjects. He can be outlining history books and science books from the other curriculum that you've already picked. I was thinking if I did pick it up I could use it for my 7th grader too. Might be good to have them "compete" a little. She likes to write. :) I hate not being able to sit down with it first, to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I was thinking if I did pick it up I could use it for my 7th grader too. Might be good to have them "compete" a little. She likes to write. :) I hate not being able to sit down with it first, to decide. My local Barnes and Noble carries Writing with Skill. If you have one close to you, perhaps you could take a gander at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mompotter Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 My local Barnes and Noble carries Writing with Skill. If you have one close to you, perhaps you could take a gander at it. Good idea. May have to go visit the one that has a Starbucks in it. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Just subbing in case Laughing Lioness or someone joins in. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakblossoms Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 It is what we have been using for our very reluctant Aspie. I wasn't sure what else to add for Grade 9 English credit.:bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 We completed part of WWS in 8th and will finish in 9th and move into WWS 2 when available. After struggling with many programs, we found WWS to be a good fit for where ds is in his ability. As Sebastian said, there is a lot of specific instruction threaded throughout the book. It doesn't feel childish in the sense a high school student would be miffed using a book designed for younger grades. WWS has helped bridge the gap of communication and frustration ds and I would experience. SWB gets him to put words on a page and reminds him of little details to remember while doing so. In the past, by the time we'd get to the words, I'd have no energy left to explain details. As for credit, we're adding grammar (he still needs the instruction), some light vocabulary, and we have a heavy literature year. He will have a full English credit, the writing is simply one component. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) I was wondering if anyone had tried this with an older student and did you feel like it was enough for your reluctant writer. Were they able to do a lot of it on their own? Did you beef it up with extra assignments? Extra practice? I will be using SL core 100 (US History) and he does like writing about history. I have not seen the LA that comes with that but think that maybe I could pull some writing assignments from that to use. I used it with 5th-8th graders last year. The 8th grader (excellent writer) breezed through it and LOVED it. The younger kids LOVED it because the excerpts were so engaging. The Aspie in the class LOVED it because of the rubric/rules to follow (and beat everyone else over the head with:lol:). I would not assign extra assignments or practice- there's enough in there. I like what A. Pudewa says, if you kid gets a concept- move on. However, each "Week" in WWS focuses, perhaps subtley, on different skills. We were going to try to skip some weeks in order to do it in a semester and the parents and I decided not too- we would just be missing too much. So, we are taking a break for summer and picking it up in the fall- hopefully WWS II will be out by 2nd sem. It is very much enough. My ds is a deliberate writer-not really reluctant- but he needs a lot of encouragement. He felt like this program wasn't overwhelming and the source docs were always something uber cool- you should have heard the reports on the octopus, and the Titantic...they LOVED the source docs!! If your rising 9th grader needs to learn how to out-line, write from scientific or historical narratives or needs to know how to write a research paper DO NOT hesitate to get and use this program. I'ma long time IEW lover but WWS is EXCELLENT prep for high school and beyond (and more clearly specific about teaching skills than IEW). I've recommended it for some of my dh's college students who can't organize a paper, don't understand plagerism and think quoting 80% of a paper is "research" (no kidding). We are eagerly awaiting WWS II and I'll probably have h.s. want to join in. I think the grades PHP recommends are general outlines for marketing- WWS really is a SKILL builing program, not an grade/age specific program. Get the TM along with the SM- very, very much worth it. One of the Mom''s with an Aspie (we had 2- one is more challenged than the other) took notes every week from my TM to help her ds). There is a WEALTH of knowledge in the TM- my achilles heel is grammar, too and it does touch on grammar. SWB does a video on WWS and she calls the TM her "brain in a book." :lol: I would set a time for an hour a week and do it with your student. I would't have them do it on thier own. My goal for our hour was for the kids to read their papers outloud and assess if they had successfully completed the rubric, then get as many "days" of the week done together as we could. This often left 1-2 days, with a paper to write for them throughout the week. If your ds is a relunctant writer, don't leave him alone with it. The "Weeks" look daunting, but they are very do-able. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this program!! Edited July 13, 2012 by laughing lioness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mompotter Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 We completed part of WWS in 8th and will finish in 9th and move into WWS 2 when available. After struggling with many programs, we found WWS to be a good fit for where ds is in his ability. As Sebastian said, there is a lot of specific instruction threaded throughout the book. It doesn't feel childish in the sense a high school student would be miffed using a book designed for younger grades. WWS has helped bridge the gap of communication and frustration ds and I would experience. SWB gets him to put words on a page and reminds him of little details to remember while doing so. In the past, by the time we'd get to the words, I'd have no energy left to explain details. As for credit, we're adding grammar (he still needs the instruction), some light vocabulary, and we have a heavy literature year. He will have a full English credit, the writing is simply one component. We will be using SL for lit and Easy Grammar so I think this might just be a great fit for writing. I HATE to keep switching (from IEW to EIW, now this) but I really do think it would be a good fit. I love that it pulls samples from good lit., covers outlining, and I was trying to find something with literary analysis. Seems to cover what I need for him. I used it with 5th-8th graders last year. The 8th grader (excellent writer) breezed through it and LOVED it. The younger kids LOVED it because the excerpts were so engaging. The Aspie in the class LOVED it because of the rubric/rules to follow (and beat everyone else over the head with:lol:). I would not assign extra assignments or practice- there's enough in there. I like what A. Pudewa says, if you kid gets a concept- move on. However, each "Week" in WWS focuses, perhaps subtley, on different skills. We were going to try to skip some weeks in order to do it in a semester and the parents and I decided not too- we would just be missing too much. So, we are taking a break for summer and picking it up in the fall- hopefully WWS II will be out by 2nd sem. It is very much enough. My ds is a deliberate writer-not really reluctant- but he needs a lot of encouragement. He felt like this program wasn't overwhelming and the source docs were always something uber cool- you should have heard the reports on the octopus, and the Titantic...they LOVED the source docs!! If your rising 9th grader needs to learn how to out-line, write from scientific or historical narratives or needs to know how to write a research paper DO NOT hesitate to get and use this program. I'ma long time IEW lover but WWS is EXCELLENT prep for high school and beyond (and more clearly specific about teaching skills than IEW). I've recommended it for some of my dh's college students who can't organize a paper, don't understand plagerism and think quoting 80% of a paper is "research" (no kidding). We are eagerly awaiting WWS II and I'll probably have h.s. want to join in. I think the grades PHP recommends are general outlines for marketing- WWS really is a SKILL builing program, not an grade/age specific program. Get the TM along with the SM- very, very much worth it. One of the Mom''s with an Aspie (we had 2- one is more challenged than the other) took notes every week from my TM to help her ds). There is a WEALTH of knowledge in the TM- my achilles heel is grammar, too and it does touch on grammar. SWB does a video on WWS and she calls the TM her "brain in a book." :lol: I would set a time for an hour a week and do it with your student. I would't have them do it on thier own. My goal for our hour was for the kids to read their papers outloud and assess if they had successfully completed the rubric, then get as many "days" of the week done together as we could. This often left 1-2 days, with a paper to write for them throughout the week. If your ds is a relunctant writer, don't leave him alone with it. The "Weeks" look daunting, but they are very do-able. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this program!! Thank you both for your posts. It is encouraging to see how it has worked and can work for us. I am thinking of using it for my 7th grader too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 ...I saw the Writing with Skill and wonder if it is too young. I was wondering if anyone had tried this with an older student... The author did (see last paragraph in her post): http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=3059168&postcount=6 WWS really is a SKILL builing program, not an grade/age specific program. Get the TM along with the SM- very, very much worth it. I heartily agree with both points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mompotter Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 The author did (see last paragraph in her post): http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=3059168&postcount=6 Well, that settles it then!;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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