MFW US History - BJU Books

[sixtimemomma]

We are going to be first time MFW users this year. I am looking at the four year High School track and realize that years 3 and 4 use BJU textbooks as the History spine.

 

I like MFW as a curriculum but I will not use any of the BJU books for History. Not sure what to do.

 

I considered using Sonlight but Core 300 and 400 don't come highly recommended. Not sure where would go for 11th and 12th grade History.

 

Wondering if I should just switch to something else now.

 

Any suggestions?

[Julie in MN]

US1 is 3 full credits, and only 0.5 credit uses the BJU text. The other credits are for government, English, and Bible. The same is true for US2, when the other half of the BJU text is used for 1 semester of US history (and there is 0.5 credit for econ and also a 0.25 geography credit in that year somewhere).

 

My son is not a textbook-y kid, but I figure for half a credit each year, he can handle it :) I also think it's good practice for his upcoming college courses. And each year, I'm seeing him grow such that so far, he's not objecting to the text for 11th grade like he would have in 9th. The new brown covers kinda look historical and more appealing to me :)

 

That's all I know so far. US1 is sitting in my dining room but we won't start until September.

Julie

[sixtimemomma]

BJU History texts have been known for racist undertones. So for that reason alone I do not want to use their texts…I guess what I'm asking is what has everyone else used for American History and Government?

 

If I use Sonlight I'm told both Core 300 and Core 400 are no good.

[Julie in MN]

BJU History texts have been known for racist undertones. So for that reason alone I do not want to use their texts…I guess what I'm asking is what has everyone else used for American History and Government?

 

If I use Sonlight I'm told both Core 300 and Core 400 are no good.

Wow, those are some big statements that might offend a few folks here. One is racist and the other is no good :eek:

 

I'm aware that BJU was slow to allow interracial dating at their college. The reasons there are very complex but anyways my student isn't attending their college. However, I've never heard that BJU textbooks are racist? I also know that the very core of MFW is God's love for the world, and their whole family spent 8 years in Siberia translating Bibles for tribal people, so I just cannot imagine that they would condone racism in a text they use? You could always call them to chat about it.

 

I did use Sonlight American History (I think it was called 7 or 100 back then). I didn't think it was no good, but I did have some things I think will be improved upon this coming year using the MFW plan.

 

There are lots of other American History texts: ABeka, Notgrass, etc.

 

(And again, MFW does not use BJU materials for government, only for the one semester of US history each year, so it might be possible to just sub out that 0.5 credit and keep the other 2.5 credits?)

 

Julie

 

ETA: Maybe this statement from BJU would help? Especially paragraphs 6 & 7:

http://www.bju.edu/communities/ministries-schools/position-statements/race-statement.php

.

.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Julie in MN

[sixtimemomma]

Thanks for responding. Let me be clear, I am aware of the IR dating issue that BJU was guilty of but I am not referring to that.

 

I am specifically referring to the way that slavery is covered in their texts.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone, just looking for some other options for curriculum.

 

I am also not saying MFW would intentionally try to harm anyone with their text choices.

 

As an AA parent I can assure that most textbooks do not tell the truth about slavery. I just want to be sure that the texts my children use not only depict the truth but that the facts come from a neutral perspective.

 

As far as saying Sonlight Core 400 is "no good" I don't know this for sure. I am restating what others on the forum have already said. I was asking for opinions and help.

 

Sorry if I was misunderstood and thanks so much for answering/helping.:001_smile:

[Julie in MN]

I'm sure that's an important topic for your family. For me, I still am left trusting the folks at MFW - a trust that is built up over many years. But maybe out of curiosity I'll read our copy this weekend. Or have my AA girlfriend read it and comment :)

 

I wonder if you should start a new thread with a different title, giving the particular issues you are looking for, so you get more answers? Or, look thru recent threads for American History texts to check out?

 

Best wishes in your search,

Julie

[sixtimemomma]

Julie

 

You are such an invaluable resource for this forum. Thanks for your input. I think I have decided to "create my own".

 

My hodgepodge will probably contain a little Sonlight and a little MFW…who knows.

 

Thanks again.

[PeterPan]

You know another option would be to use the BJU book but SKIP the chapters that offend you or supplement them radically. You'd definitely have no problems finding supplements. Between TOG and amazon, you could make a list quickly. That way you'd get to keep the MFW you like and just change out the stuff that concerns you. If you're even opposed to buying from them, then that won't work. Whatever, just tossing it out.

[cbollin]

I remember hearing that mfw wouldn't use one of jr. high bju books because of certain overtones in it. So, I'm pretty sure they are sensitive on this too.

 

I wonder how the AA staff at MFW feel about this book? I know their children aren't in high school yet, but they might have insights on this book.

have you called MFW and asked them about that? maybe they'd like to talk through it with you.

 

 

-crystal

Edited June 17, 2012 by cbollin
fixed typo that I saw

[cbollin]

I am specifically referring to the way that slavery is covered in their texts.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone, just looking for some other options for curriculum.

 

I think I'll do like Julie and grab my bju history text used in mfw us1 and us2, and see how it is covered. Julie has 4th edition and I have 3rd.

 

maybe with a feel of how it is covered, thye will help you find what might work. It could be as simple of a solution as adding in extra reading to show other perspectives. or like Elizabeth said, make sure on those chapters, you do some teaching from the book with your student.

 

the little bit I"ve seen from reading slavery topics in the book... I'm not sure what you are referring to in how it is covered? what I mean is I don't know what to look for to help you know if a certain thing is presented.

are you willing to share a little bit more about what you don't want in a text and what things are done in this specific bju text that is not what you want? that might help others to help you find a better resource for your needs. or help with ideas. :)

:)

 

A different topic.... MFW does not use BJU for government. I'm not sure that was mentioned yet.

 

-crystal

[Mom22ns]

While I've seen the negative reviews of SL 300 & 400 everyone I know IRL that has used them loves them. If you like SL, you might find it worth your time to review these in person before deciding based on the few vocal negative reviewers here.

[Sue G in PA]

If you like the rest of MFW US1 & 2, I would get a copy of the BJU text and read through it. In fact, we have the US1 package for dd15 for next year and I'm going to give it a good read through myself (you have me curious :)). I'm curious how anybody could "reinterpret" something as horrid as slavery, kwim? The rest of US1 just looks so good...perhaps you could just sub out the BJU and use Notgrass instead? Seems doable since it IS only .5 credits. Good luck with your planning if you don't use MFW. There is something "fun" about designing your own. :D

[4wildberrys]

Thanks for responding. Let me be clear, I am aware of the IR dating issue that BJU was guilty of but I am not referring to that.

 

I am specifically referring to the way that slavery is covered in their texts.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone, just looking for some other options for curriculum.

 

I am also not saying MFW would intentionally try to harm anyone with their text choices.

 

As an AA parent I can assure that most textbooks do not tell the truth about slavery. I just want to be sure that the texts my children use not only depict the truth but that the facts come from a neutral perspective.

 

As far as saying Sonlight Core 400 is "no good" I don't know this for sure. I am restating what others on the forum have already said. I was asking for opinions and help.

 

Sorry if I was misunderstood and thanks so much for answering/helping.:001_smile:

 

As a Catholic, I won't use BJu either as they are very anti-Catholic with no attempt at hiding it. Have you looked at Notgrass's Exprloring America program? SL 300 is a GREAT program! It was honestly one of our favorites. I do suggest trying to find a used copy of the older history spine 20th Century Day by Day though, as it is much better than their current spine. Have you used Core 100? Again, one of our favorites and our dd used it in 10th. The Core 400 is a VERY challenging core, but the nice thing about it is that it presents history clearly---warts and all---and in a very even handed manner. We did not care for the Bible books or the Carson Govt book, but the rest of the history titles were top notch. I am a very BIG fan of SL at the high school level because of the challenging history titles that really cause kids (and adults) to challenge and question the traditional stories of Am history that perhaps are not the full truth. SL most definitely tells the truth not only of slavery, but of race relations since then. It's been cringeworthy at times.

Edited June 18, 2012 by 4wildberrys

[LatinTea]

SL most definitely tells the truth not only of slavery, but of race relations since then. It's been cringeworthy at times.

I am in the process of trying to decide what to use next year for American history. My son did Core 100 a few years ago and frankly, I had a hard time swallowing all of SL's comments on slavery and how many slaves really loved being slaves. Like my dd said to me yesterday, 'it's like a tiger in the zoo....sure he loves the free hand-outs, but he doesn't know any better. And the tiger doesn't have to work for his hand-outs either'. So, your comment about SL telling the truth of slavery, well, maybe I just didn't get what Mr. Holzmann was saying. I know he doesn't condone slavery....but then says it's allowed in the Bible....and then says that many slaveholders were cruel....but there were plenty that were kind too. I understand that not all were cruel, but to own a person is just wrong to the very core of my being.

 

In addition, Mr. H renames The Civil War as The War for Southern Independence, and then goes on to tell the student to make up his own mind about Lincoln (after dragging Lincoln's name through the mud consistently throughout all the notes), well, it just doesn't work well that way.

 

I need to go to bed, but wanted to give my thoughts on this. Thanks for listening.

[4wildberrys]

I am in the process of trying to decide what to use next year for American history. My son did Core 100 a few years ago and frankly, I had a hard time swallowing all of SL's comments on slavery and how many slaves really loved being slaves. Like my dd said to me yesterday, 'it's like a tiger in the zoo....sure he loves the free hand-outs, but he doesn't know any better. And the tiger doesn't have to work for his hand-outs either'. So, your comment about SL telling the truth of slavery, well, maybe I just didn't get what Mr. Holzmann was saying. I know he doesn't condone slavery....but then says it's allowed in the Bible....and then says that many slaveholders were cruel....but there were plenty that were kind too. I understand that not all were cruel, but to own a person is just wrong to the very core of my being.

 

In addition, Mr. H renames The Civil War as The War for Southern Independence, and then goes on to tell the student to make up his own mind about Lincoln (after dragging Lincoln's name through the mud consistently throughout all the notes), well, it just doesn't work well that way.

 

I need to go to bed, but wanted to give my thoughts on this. Thanks for listening.

 

Well honestly, we never used the notes for 100 so I guess I might have missed a few things? :001_huh: The History of Us books didn't paint that picture and neither did any of the historical literature. In fact, we didn't start using any of the notes until 400 with the easier to use upgraded IGs, and I don't recall any sort of condonement of slavery. As far as renaming the Civil War---I do tend to agree as it wasn't simply Northern outrage of slavery, as the North was largely as racist as the South. mr. Holzmann is right that it's a bit more complicated as the typical history textbook portrays. SL just gives SO much more information to allow one to make up ones OWN mind with so many different sources and viewpoints to read from as compared to simply one text ;)

[cbollin]

As a Catholic, I won't use BJu either as they are very anti-Catholic with no attempt at hiding it. .

 

I can understand and sympathize with the idea of not supporting a group or product that one doesn't agree with. I'm that way about certain things too.

 

seeing you mention that issue my brain remembered it was the catholic issue that the mfw person told me at their convention about the other books from bju that they didn't want to use... and I'll get in a lot of trouble on this part, but one of them from mfw at convention was saying he was nervous that 4th edition of the book mfw uses needed to be previewed before mfw kept selling it, but big sigh of relief, no anti catholic was put in that specific book.

 

back to the original topic.. how slavery is discussed in the specific book in MFW so that anyone who is trying to decide if it's a toss book, or supplement, or what would work in their house..

 

I don't think Julie took her copy to the ICU Sunday morning.. (check her siggy line and click on caring bridge.. praying for you julie and hubby)

 

so how is slavery talked about in this specific book in spite of everything else?

definitely plenty of quotes in there that don't put slavery in a good light. That quote that George Mason supposedly said that all "masters" were petty tyrants. wow. or that jamestown 1619 indentured servants was not indentured servants, but the foundation for generations of racial tensions in the usa.

 

Mostly, the book talks about events that connect in history and details of events. slavery isn't ignored.

 

The 2 page spread in chapter 11. ok that tells the heart. discussed briefly how slavery made its way to north america. they talk about the money over morals issue. they give quote that "slavery is a bitter pill even if a slave had a "good" master. talk about no freedom. talks about mistakes in how to solve the problem (editing out my poorly written sentence... if you have the book look in 3rd edition chapter 11)

 

I haven't read the whole book yet. just started glancing at how reformers and abolition is covered. chapter 13 is just before civil war, but I haven't made my way through the book yet... and haven't look in the sections on discrimination much. quick glances and yes, the Japanese American part is mentioned. that's not swept under the rug. I'm seeing a lot of the same information and feel in this book that I remember from my college course at a secular university called Afro American History 101 (taught by AA professor in the dept.) but then again, I'm white.

 

I'm starting to think that book is ok. but I can understand if one didn't want to buy from bju for their reputation and all of that.

 

anyway, I hope some of that information is helpful to someone who is trying to get a sense of the book without having the book and just knowing the publisher isn't well received by all.

 

and praying for julie's family... check her siggy line for link..

 

-crystal

Edited June 18, 2012 by cbollin

[4wildberrys]

seeing you mention that issue my brain remembered it was the catholic issue that the mfw person told me at their convention about the other books from bju that they didn't want to use... and I'll get in a lot of trouble on this part, but one of them from mfw at convention was saying he was nervous that 4th edition of the book mfw uses needed to be previewed before mfw kept selling it, but big sigh of relief, no anti catholic was put in that specific book.

 

 

 

-crystal

 

Yep---no indictment for MFW on this issue whatsoever! We used Ancient History and thoroughly enjoyed it with no theological problems ;)

[LatinTea]

Well honestly, we never used the notes for 100 so I guess I might have missed a few things? :001_huh: The History of Us books didn't paint that picture and neither did any of the historical literature. In fact, we didn't start using any of the notes until 400 with the easier to use upgraded IGs, and I don't recall any sort of condonement of slavery. As far as renaming the Civil War---I do tend to agree as it wasn't simply Northern outrage of slavery, as the North was largely as racist as the South. mr. Holzmann is right that it's a bit more complicated as the typical history textbook portrays. SL just gives SO much more information to allow one to make up ones OWN mind with so many different sources and viewpoints to read from as compared to simply one text ;)

 

Let's see, yes, the notes have all the comments about slavery. The other resources in Core 100 do not go down the road. I want to clarify and say that I did not state that SL condones slavery, far from it. They do present both sides, but I feel that they go over the top in trying to portray that some slaves indeed loved their masters and their lives. I do understand that some slaves felt that they were indeed rescued from living pagan lives in Africa (Phillis Wheatley comes to mind), but then there were those such as Amos Fortune. He wanted to be free, but that did not come until he was too old to enjoy it.

 

And the name of the war is a minor issue. I also found where he calls it, America's Great War. I think that is much better than any of the terms I've heard. And yes, the North was just as racist as the South, they just didn't need slaves to work in the steel factories!

 

I totally understand that SL gives both sides so that the student can make up his or her own mind, BUT sometimes there is a lopsided amount of Mr. H's way of thinking to achieve a balanced approach (to counter the lopsided approach in regular textbooks). Mr. H is the first to say that he doesn't want to push his agenda, so I know he gets there is a danger there of this happening. And as long as the teacher recognizes the issues, then it can be an interesting journey.

 

I still might use Core 100 again with my dd; it's her last go with American history and I wouldn't want it to be boring. ;)

Edited June 18, 2012 by LatinTea

[cbollin]

Yep---no indictment for MFW on this issue whatsoever! We used Ancient History and thoroughly enjoyed it with no theological problems ;)

 

don't worry I didn't think you or anyone are saying anything against mfw.

 

I only was trying to say "oh yeah.. it was that issue with bju that they mentioned bothered them". earlier in the thread I thought it was one thing and it wasn't...so I was correcting my previous post where I thought the issue was something else and your post made me have my face palm duh memory moment.

 

-crystal

[4wildberrys]

Let's see, yes, the notes have all the comments about slavery. The other resources in Core 100 do not go down the road. I want to clarify and say that I did not state that SL condones slavery, far from it. They do present both sides, but I feel that they go over the top in trying to portray that some slaves indeed loved their masters and their lives. I do understand that some slaves felt that they were indeed rescued from living pagan lives in Africa (Phillis Wheatley comes to mind), but then there were those such as Amos Fortune. He wanted to be free, but that did not come until he was too old to enjoy it.

 

And the name of the war is a minor issue. I also found where he calls it, America's Great War. I think that is much better than any of the terms I've heard. And yes, the North was just as racist as the South, they just didn't need slaves to work in the steel factories!

 

I totally understand that SL gives both sides so that the student can make up his or her own mind, BUT sometimes there is a lopsided amount of Mr. H's way of thinking to achieve a balanced approach (to counter the lopsided approach in regular textbooks). Mr. H is the first to say that he doesn't want to push his agenda, so I know he gets there is a danger there of this happening. And as long as the teacher recognizes the issues, then it can be an interesting journey.

 

I still might use Core 100 again with my dd; it's her last go with American history and I wouldn't want it to be boring. ;)

 

We'll be using 100 again with the new IG so I guess I'll get to read all of these notes finally ;). And yes, it's anything but boring!

[barybar]

Thanks for responding. Let me be clear, I am aware of the IR dating issue that BJU was guilty of but I am not referring to that.

 

I am specifically referring to the way that slavery is covered in their texts.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone, just looking for some other options for curriculum.

 

I am also not saying MFW would intentionally try to harm anyone with their text choices.

 

As an AA parent I can assure that most textbooks do not tell the truth about slavery. I just want to be sure that the texts my children use not only depict the truth but that the facts come from a neutral perspective.

 

As far as saying Sonlight Core 400 is "no good" I don't know this for sure. I am restating what others on the forum have already said. I was asking for opinions and help.

 

Sorry if I was misunderstood and thanks so much for answering/helping.:001_smile:

Yes, I, too, am glad to read that excerpt and the apology by the Bob Jones III. I believe that I would have had my child enroll in the distance learning at BJU had it not been for antiquated historical actions that I hope is changing for the better and the more positive....Char

[cbollin]

I am specifically referring to the way that slavery is covered in their texts.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone, just looking for some other options for curriculum.

 

I am also not saying MFW would intentionally try to harm anyone with their text choices.

:

 

 

I'm not a big fan of bumping up threads from 3 months ago. So.. this is an old thread from 3 months ago... I know...

 

the reason I"m bumping it...., now, I am a little further into MFW's US1, I have some insights that might help others make their decisions. This was something I didn't know until we got to week 7 of the program....

 

It turns out that BJU text is not the only resource used on the topic of evils of racism and slavery. MFW in younger years is known for using more than one resource. In high school, it has all of the appearance in US1 that only BJU is history. turns out.. in the American Lit. Supplement, there is a history lesson on realities and evils of racism and slavery. It may not be enough for any one specific family out there - no text can do that for everyone...

 

but the combination of books and combining of topics is doing a good job to paint a fuller picture of it. No rosy pictures painted on slavery. very condemning. nothing is happy on it..... the Am Lit Supplement goes pretty far to say that even going back to Jamestown the intention was never for it to be indentured servants and just really paints the picture.

 

It may be of course that MFW is still not what is best to use for you, but if you can find the Am Lit Supplement in their program, check out lesson 7 in it. Then, also read through the BJU text on topics and see how it is not just one side of the picture.

 

anyway... sorry for bumping this back up. But if I had known this 3 months ago, I would have said it then :)

 

-crystal