Horse folks... some input, please.

[-M-]

My daughters returned to riding after a four-year break. Their previous experience was one year of lessons on experienced horses that did most of the work for them (if you know what I mean). Still, the girls learned to trot and canter, and they received good experience in grooming and general pre- and post-ride horse care.

 

After two months of riding at the new facility, mostly on older (seventeen and up) but less experienced horses that did some of the work for them, the instructor put Miss M-mv(i) on an older horse he describes as "somewhat fractious" and sensitive. (The horse was ill-trained and mistreated by her previous owner.) Miss M-mv(i) and that horse developed a wonderful trust, leaving the instructor was somewhat stunned and quite pleased.

 

After another month, then, the instructor moved Miss M-mv(ii) to that horse and moved Miss M-mv(i) to a three-year-old horse that he describes as "pretty fractious." Miss M-mv(i) describes the horse -- which she has groomed several times -- as beautiful, friendly, frisky, and not completely under the instructor's control, let alone hers. "She's pretty unpredictable and not completely trained, Mom."

 

So she expressed some concern -- but not fear -- that this horse may be a bit beyond the current scope of her abilities.

 

She was right: Late in the lesson, the horse bucked, causing the rider to lose her balance. Hanging from the side of the saddle, the rider nearly regained control, but the horse then bolted, rendering the rider unseated and reinless. She was forced to "bail" after a terrifying half turn around the 100X200 arena at full gallop.

 

This was just about the most frightening thing that has ever happened to the rider, but she finished the lesson. Neither rider nor horse looked particularly pleased.

 

In the days leading up to the next lesson, Miss M-mv(i) indicated that she'd like to work with the horse she has been working with for the month prior.

 

The instructor told her that she'll never learn anything that way. Miss M-mv(i) prevailed. Later, instructor asked us to call prior to next lesson to indicate which horse the girls would want. Father called two days before and indicated that they wanted the horses from lessons in the month prior to the incident.

 

Fine, the instructor replied. I guess Miss M-mv(i) doesn't want to learn to ride, then; she just wants to ride.

 

Father refrained from engaging because Miss M-mv(i) had already articulated her position to the instructor: She had explained -- clearly and respectfully -- that she did not yet feel ready for such a strong-willed and unpredictable horse. If she must change horses, is there another somewhere in difficulty between her preferred mount and the three-year-old?

 

Apparently not.

 

Instructor and rider now appear to be at an impasse with each seeming to have lost respect for the other.

 

Thank you in advance for your thoughts. Both Miss M-mv(i) and I look forward to your experience / wisdom / insight.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I'm not as experienced as some others here but have owned horses and have had daughters in riding lessons. What you've described would have me looking for a different facility.

 

There is no reason to ever put a young rider on a horse they are uncomfortable on. If she is serious about progressing her skills she will naturally request more challenging mounts as she feels more experienced. You can not rush that, and to do so will cause horse and rider to miss imperative steps in the learning process.

 

So many times instructors are all about getting them prepared for competetions. They cut corners at the expense of safety and enjoyment. I'm sorry your dd went through that, but glad that she stood her ground. I think I would have to have discussion with the instructor as to what your expectations are, what your dd's expectations are, and to express your concern at the obvious lack of respect. The instructor is priviledged to be getting paid, if the services you are receiving aren't to your expectations look elsewhere.

[Juniper]

I am sorry. That is very immature of the instructor. I cannot stand pettiness so if any of her attitude leaks into the lessons or quality of teaching (which I cannot see how it wouldn't) I would be gone. Confidence is a precious commodity in young rider!!!! Your dd would not be able to maintain any sort of confidence with a horse that needed that much work.

 

Do you have other barns to look at?

[KathyBC]

So let me get this straight - Miss M-mv(i) is paying for riding lessons, not paying to break someone else's 3yo. The instructor is trying to save face, IMO. Your family's instincts seem spot on to me.

[celticmom]

It almost sounds to me like the instructor is basically wanting to use your dd to train difficult horses. That is not something a relatively inexperienced rider should be attempting. I would probably be at the very least a little testy that my dd had been put in such a risky situation.

[Juniper]

I am also just going to point something out. A rider does not learn to ride well, by riding difficult horses. They can possibly learn to ride difficult horses well, but this is not the same thing as being a good rider equitation wise.

 

There is wisdom in being able to ride different horses, but that does not automatically = young, dangerous, spirited, green, or unpredictable.

[Chris in VA]

Switch stables--fast.

There is no way a less experienced rider should be riding a 3yo. A 3 yo!! Unbelievable. Not only is she going to get hurt, but also the horse needs an eperienced rider to continue its own training!!

 

I must say I'm impressed with your dd and her ability to be articulate, respectful and persistent.

[ma23peas]

Switch stables--fast.

There is no way a less experienced rider should be riding a 3yo. A 3 yo!! Unbelievable. Not only is she going to get hurt, but also the horse needs an eperienced rider to continue its own training!!

 

I must say I'm impressed with your dd and her ability to be articulate, respectful and persistent.

 

This ten times! We have a 4 year old that we will not mount for another year, so bad for their back! Any groundwork enorced? We do hundreds of hours of ground games before riding, pays off in spades...find a barn that utilizes natural horsemanship.

[-M-]

Thank you for the replies. While we are absolutely open to being educated on this matter, you can imagine the relief we're experiencing as we read that others agree with us -- wrong horse, wrong time, wrongheaded instructor. We'll have time to look for a new instructor and facility once summer swim season concludes.

 

I *am* proud of Miss M-mv(i)'s persistence and wisdom, by the way...and so [expletive] grateful that she walked away from that lesson with only a bruise on her leg, a sore arm, and a sand-filled helmet.

 

Thank you again.

[Dory]

Confidence in the rider is one of the most important things to develop. A good instructor should know that. You NEVER push a rider out of their comfort zone, you just push to the edge of it. She was obviously past hers. Also, I would never put a young rider on a horse that young. As my instructor used to say to me when I was younger, "green and green make black and blue when it comes to riding". I would change stables. Also, I would be appalled at any certified instructor putting any rider on such an ill mannered mount. It is one thing to put them on a high-energy, sensitive horse, but the horse should still be fairly well trained with no major vices. In my books, bucking is a major vice.

[black_midori]

Wow - that is a ridiculous situation, all around. There is absolutely NO WAY your daughter should be on that 3yo (or practically any 3yo). Good trainers won't even start a horse under saddle until the horse is AT LEAST 2.5 and more often 3 or later (some of this depends on the breed of horse - some are stockier younger, some take much longer to grow into themselves). Once started under saddle, the majority of young horses would not be ready for inexperience riders for several years. That is why a good "solid" horse for your average rider is usually over 6/7 years old. In this I would consider anyone with under, say, 5 years of dealing with a variety of horses & situations as inexperienced in the realm of newly trained horses.

 

At 1 year and 2 months of lessons, I would completely consider your daughter as inexperienced for such a situation (even if she were riding 2 times a week that entire time), especially since the majority of that riding was done quite a long time ago. It takes a certain period of time (months of consistent riding, at least) to build up the proper muscles to sit the general rythme of your horse well.

 

To approach another point mentioned - to some extent I actually agree (in part) with your trainer that learning how to truly RIDE a horse requires that you ride a horse who does NOT do everything for you. Now, there are obvious limits to that (safety being a major one, of course). I don't ride in shows, and I don't ride "pretty" anymore (long gone are the years!) but I know a lot about horses & can get mine to do a lot of things (I have 5 and give lessons on occasion). I truly do think that if you spend all your riding career learning how to ride "pretty" on a horse that goes around the arena nicely whether you are on its back or not... you lose out on a lot of true learning (the kind of learning that I, personally, am interested in teaching). When you ride a horse that tests you (as almost all horses will, outside of the limited arena of school horses - and really, almost all of those school horses have one quirk or another that you learn to deal with) you learn to cope better with behavior issues & gradually learn to deal with them better & better. This is very important, if you plan to ride outside of a fairly limited environment.

 

Those behavior issues, however, should NEVER be so extreme (buck, kick, rear, run off) unless that is the type of behavior you are specifically trying to learn about (something you might do as a more advanced rider, with MUCH more specific instruction as to dealing with it). Usually, these behaviors will be more of "barn sour", "gate sour", "requires more leg than hand", "gets tired & starts bobbing head unless you do xyz", etc.

 

So, I would say that the situation you are in is terrible and leave ASAP! However, the concept that you need to ride a horse that has problems to learn to deal with problems definitely, IMO, has a basis in truth. This depends, of course, on what your end-goal in riding is - if all your daughter wants to do is ride a fully trained school horse in a local show, then cool, learn to ride "pretty" and direct the horse. Absolutely you need to learn a lot of that anyway, regardless of what type of riding you eventually do!

[Dory]

Wow - that is a ridiculous situation, all around. There is absolutely NO WAY your daughter should be on that 3yo (or practically any 3yo). Good trainers won't even start a horse under saddle until the horse is AT LEAST 2.5 and more often 3 or later (some of this depends on the breed of horse - some are stockier younger, some take much longer to grow into themselves). Once started under saddle, the majority of young horses would not be ready for inexperience riders for several years. That is why a good "solid" horse for your average rider is usually over 6/7 years old. In this I would consider anyone with under, say, 5 years of dealing with a variety of horses & situations as inexperienced in the realm of newly trained horses.

 

At 1 year and 2 months of lessons, I would completely consider your daughter as inexperienced for such a situation (even if she were riding 2 times a week that entire time), especially since the majority of that riding was done quite a long time ago. It takes a certain period of time (months of consistent riding, at least) to build up the proper muscles to sit the general rythme of your horse well.

 

To approach another point mentioned - to some extent I actually agree (in part) with your trainer that learning how to truly RIDE a horse requires that you ride a horse who does NOT do everything for you. Now, there are obvious limits to that (safety being a major one, of course). I don't ride in shows, and I don't ride "pretty" anymore (long gone are the years!) but I know a lot about horses & can get mine to do a lot of things (I have 5 and give lessons on occasion). I truly do think that if you spend all your riding career learning how to ride "pretty" on a horse that goes around the arena nicely whether you are on its back or not... you lose out on a lot of true learning (the kind of learning that I, personally, am interested in teaching). When you ride a horse that tests you (as almost all horses will, outside of the limited arena of school horses - and really, almost all of those school horses have one quirk or another that you learn to deal with) you learn to cope better with behavior issues & gradually learn to deal with them better & better. This is very important, if you plan to ride outside of a fairly limited environment.

 

Those behavior issues, however, should NEVER be so extreme (buck, kick, rear, run off) unless that is the type of behavior you are specifically trying to learn about (something you might do as a more advanced rider, with MUCH more specific instruction as to dealing with it). Usually, these behaviors will be more of "barn sour", "gate sour", "requires more leg than hand", "gets tired & starts bobbing head unless you do xyz", etc.

 

So, I would say that the situation you are in is terrible and leave ASAP! However, the concept that you need to ride a horse that has problems to learn to deal with problems definitely, IMO, has a basis in truth. This depends, of course, on what your end-goal in riding is - if all your daughter wants to do is ride a fully trained school horse in a local show, then cool, learn to ride "pretty" and direct the horse. Absolutely you need to learn a lot of that anyway, regardless of what type of riding you eventually do!

:iagree: You have said it wonderfully. Which I suppose is why you give lessons and people like me just work with the horses. Words are not my thing. :D

[LittleIzumi]

That is absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable. I would be looking for a new instructor asap. I've been on a fractious 3-year-old, but as a trainer. I can't imagine putting an inexperienced rider on one as a lesson horse.

[creekland]

It almost sounds to me like the instructor is basically wanting to use your dd to train difficult horses. That is not something a relatively inexperienced rider should be attempting. I would probably be at the very least a little testy that my dd had been put in such a risky situation.

 

:iagree: This should NOT be happening. It's bad for both the rider and the horses involved. Two inexperienced partners being put together does not = a great partnership. It often leaves one black and blue and the other scared stiff (sometimes both with both). Anyone with any sense of horsemanship would not be doing it.

 

I am also just going to point something out. A rider does not learn to ride well, by riding difficult horses. They can possibly learn to ride difficult horses well, but this is not the same thing as being a good rider equitation wise.

 

There is wisdom in being able to ride different horses, but that does not automatically = young, dangerous, spirited, green, or unpredictable.

 

:iagree: Switch instructors and/or barns quickly! This is not a person you want lessons from.

[-M-]

Again, many thanks for the thoughtful replies / assessments. You must know how relieved and validated Miss M-mv(i) feels.