can someone explain to me the main reasons for needing a writing program....

[ProudGrandma]

since most of them are so strongly grammar focused. I mean, we have a good grammar program and the kids are retaining that information. All of the writing programs I have found seem to want to teach grammar mostly and actually teach writing as an after thought (almost anyway).

 

So, is a writing program really needed, if you have a strong grammar program...convince me one way or the other.

[Dinomom13]

We do not use a writing program. Daughter excels in grammar skills and enjoys writing, so I've not bothered to get a formal writing program. I did, however, put writing prompts on index cards. Once a week, she has to choose a card, or come up with her own topic, and write at least a paragraph (but it usually turns into a story once her imagination gets going).

[Trish]

I don't ever remember learning writing in school, actually. Other than teachers saying how many paragraphs a book report needed to be.

 

But I use a writing curriculum because it gives the kids practice, and something TO practice.

[sagira]

:lurk5:

[edeemarie]

For me, I really feel writing is important to teach because it is a skill the children will need- at least to get them through school. I never felt like I had strong writing skills and when I was given a paper to write it was very overwhelming (not on what to write about, but how to write the paper). We are actually favoring writing over grammar in our house now and doing applied grammar/ editing instead. I never had a college professor ask me to identify a noun, but I had several ask me to write papers. So basically, I don't want my children to struggle with writing the way I did.

[laundrycrisis]

since most of them are so strongly grammar focused. I mean, we have a good grammar program and the kids are retaining that information. All of the writing programs I have found seem to want to teach grammar mostly and actually teach writing as an after thought (almost anyway).

 

So, is a writing program really needed, if you have a strong grammar program...convince me one way or the other.

 

IMO grammar is important, because without knowledge of correct grammar, you can't move on to good writing. But, if you study grammar to death, you can completely miss the point, which is learning to write well. And some people get so bogged down and distracted by grammar rules that they never do learn to express themselves very well with written language. I think it's good to expose them to grammar rules and practice, but definitely go on to editing and writing. You can keep circling back around to cover the grammar again if you see grammar problems.

 

I never had a college professor ask me to identify a noun, but I had several ask me to write papers.

 

:iagree: Writing is the skill that I eventually want them to reach. Knowledge of grammar is like a support underneath writing. But writing well is the ultimate goal.

Edited May 12, 2012 by laundrycrisis

[Hunter]

I really like CGE. The writing focuses on report writing and letter writing. All lessons are designed to be handwritten so there are excellent instructions on how to do each draft. I and my students have become too dependent, on organizing while we write on a computer, by simply shifting text around. Now we are learning a plan of attack, and are not chained to a machine. It's nice to sit and handwrite a letter out on the balcony on a nice day.

[TKDmom]

I really like CGE. The writing focuses on report writing and letter writing. All lessons are designed to be handwritten so there are excellent instructions on how to do each draft. I and my students have become too dependent, on organizing while we write on a computer, by simply shifting text around. Now we are learning a plan of attack, and are not chained to a machine. It's nice to sit and handwrite a letter out on the balcony on a nice day.

 

What is CGE?

[ProudGrandma]

What is CGE?

 

that was my question too.

[Momling]

I don't think kids really need direct instruction in paragraph or essay writing until they are logic stage. Handwriting, spelling, and mechanics are enough.

[edeemarie]

What is CGE?

Climbing to Good English

[Dinsfamily]

I use writing and grammar programs because of my own experience in school. I was not taught grammar beyond the definitions of subject and predicate or any mechanics of writing. Most of the writing instruction I received was on how to organize a research paper or build a 5 paragraph essay. That's good but organizing the paper does little good when you can't write proper, varied sentences.

 

I was okay through my engineering undergrad degree even though the papers I had to write for my English, political science, and other required humanities classes were painful. When I started my Master's in Education, I had to take a remedial writing course that opened my eyes to varies sentence structure! I'm thankful for that course as it made writing all of those papers much easier.

 

When I was in the military, I would often proofread papers for my airmen taking night classes. Most of the time, I would have to teach them how to write and organize their thoughts. Their high schools had not prepared them for college writing. In fact, they weren't even prepared for high school writing, IMHO.

 

I know some hs'ers out there can teach these things without a curriculum and that is wonderful. I need the handholding a curriculum provides.

[Hedgehog]

I need the handholding a curriculum provides.

 

:iagree: That's me, as well.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I agree that students need to know how to vary sentences and organize thought plus other things, but is a curriculum needed for this? Couldn't you just take what they write and teach the corrections and improvements?

[elegantlion]

Some children are natural writers, some are not. I was a natural writer, I've been writing since I could hold a pencil. Ds is not, a curriculum bridges the divide between my snap thought of "You should be able to do this, it's just like this..." to what he heard at the early stage, "blah, blah, blah..."

 

As I look I back I can see how more foundational training in copywork and narration would have been beneficial. I would suggest listening to SWB's lectures on writing.

 

I think it would be a rare child that doesn't need any specific instruction on writing during any of their schooling. There are many ways to approach it, from a parent/teacher designed program to following a lined out yearly program.

 

I do think, even at the elementary age, you need to have some scope of how you are going to handle writing at least through middle school. Not necessarily books but skills. It's easy to start younger and ease into the higher levels than it is to remediate copywork, narration, and dictation to a tween.

[LibraryLover]

I'll try to answer the question by telling you why I most appreciate WWS. SWB tells you exactly what good writing is, right down to telling the student not to use cliches. (I tend towards that mental laziness myself.) The specific skills taught are obvious ones, yet so rarely done well. I would be a much better technical and expressive writer had I done this program as a child. Desptie my dyslexia and comma issues ;), I am a fairly decent natural writer, but I am learning and re-learning quite a bit along with my dd as we work through the book.

Edited May 13, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Kathryn]

IMO grammar is important, because without knowledge of correct grammar, you can't move on to good writing. But, if you study grammar to death, you can completely miss the point, which is learning to write well. And some people get so bogged down and distracted by grammar rules that they never do learn to express themselves very well with written language. I think it's good to expose them to grammar rules and practice, but definitely go on to editing and writing. You can keep circling back around to cover the grammar again if you see grammar problems.

 

 

 

:iagree: Writing is the skill that I eventually want them to reach. Knowledge of grammar is like a support underneath writing. But writing well is the ultimate goal.

 

Some children are natural writers, some are not. I was a natural writer, I've been writing since I could hold a pencil. Ds is not, a curriculum bridges the divide between my snap thought of "You should be able to do this, it's just like this..." to what he heard at the early stage, "blah, blah, blah..."

 

As I look I back I can see how more foundational training in copywork and narration would have been beneficial. I would suggest listening to SWB's lectures on writing.

 

I think it would be a rare child that doesn't need any specific instruction on writing during any of their schooling. There are many ways to approach it, from a parent/teacher designed program to following a lined out yearly program.

 

I do think, even at the elementary age, you need to have some scope of how you are going to handle writing at least through middle school. Not necessarily books but skills. It's easy to start younger and ease into the higher levels than it is to remediate copywork, narration, and dictation to a tween.

 

:iagree:

[birchbark]

IMO grammar is important, because without knowledge of correct grammar, you can't move on to good writing. But, if you study grammar to death, you can completely miss the point, which is learning to write well. And some people get so bogged down and distracted by grammar rules that they never do learn to express themselves very well with written language. I think it's good to expose them to grammar rules and practice, but definitely go on to editing and writing. You can keep circling back around to cover the grammar again if you see grammar problems.

 

Writing is the skill that I eventually want them to reach. Knowledge of grammar is like a support underneath writing. But writing well is the ultimate goal.

 

I don't think kids really need direct instruction in paragraph or essay writing until they are logic stage. Handwriting, spelling, and mechanics are enough.

 

:iagree:

[boscopup]

I agree that students need to know how to vary sentences and organize thought plus other things, but is a curriculum needed for this? Couldn't you just take what they write and teach the corrections and improvements?

 

Sure, you can teach any subject without a curriculum if you know enough about that subject yourself and how to teach it.

 

Most of us use curriculum to help us teach because we either don't know enough about the subject ourselves or we don't know how to effectively convey that information to our children. I know a lot about math, but I've needed curriculum to help me with the "how to" of teaching it. My kids don't have an adult brain yet, and they haven't been taught all this stuff before. They're learning it for the first time.

 

I need a curriculum to teach writing. I would not know all that needs to be taught in that subject without a curriculum to help me out. I only had to take one writing course in college, and that was technical writing my junior year. I also had to write a few papers for a world cultures class my freshman year. That was pretty much the bulk of my writing in college. I don't remember what I was taught in high school (I did have a good grammar and writing education there). I have absolutely no clue what a child should be writing in 5th, 8th, or 12th grade without a curriculum (or SWB's brain :lol:).

 

Whether YOU need a writing curriculum to teach your kids... I can't answer that. Only you can answer that. :)

[Cosmos]

All of the writing programs I have found seem to want to teach grammar mostly and actually teach writing as an after thought (almost anyway).

 

What writing programs are you talking about? I would say that Rod and Staff fits your description (mostly grammar but with some writing instruction) but of course that's an English program not just a writing program.

 

I've never seen a writing program that's as you describe. WWE, WWS, Jump In, CW, Wordsmith, Bravewriter are just a few you may want to look at.

[MamaBear]

:lurk5: