At a loss with Math

[Jamee]

DS12 has been doing Saxon since we started homeschooling two years ago. We kind of gave it up for a bit last month because he was stressed out and not really getting anywhere, so we are now doing LOF Pre Algebra with Biology which he LOVES. The problem is that he still doesn't seem to have a grasp of what I think are some of the basics: multiplying decimals, adding fractions. I'm at a loss on how to get through with him on this.

 

The other issue is that no matter how many times I tell him HE NEVER SHOWS HIS WORK.:banghead: So, more often than not his answers are wrong, but not far off. I have no idea what he's doing, he can't really explain, it all just seems so convuluted.

 

Any advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated, especially as we head into the summer. They have always done "summer work" so it's not a new concept, and I'd like him to be up to speed by the start of the fall.

[jennynd]

DS don't like to show his work too. I found going in Algebra he is much better. I started to force him writing down when he is 5th grade level and I still have hard time to get him write down anything when it comes to geometry. It just need more reinforcement

You also try Math Mammoth or Key to series for the topic that you think he has prblem. both are cheap and good pregrams

[Jamee]

Thanks! I've been been going to Math Mammoth more. I like that I can pick and choose the areas I need, but is this a sensible idea?:confused: Should I be doing something else?

[Bloggermom]

Have you considered Teaching Textbooks? That was a real life-saver for my kids.

[HollyDay]

If he is lacking in the basics of decimals and fractions, then you should get him caught up in those areas before attempting algebra. Perhaps LOF fractions/decimals/percents would be a good supplement. I've also used the Key to series to fill in gaps and give extra practice.

 

TT is also an alternative for dc who are not responding well to Saxon. The learning style is very different since it is computer based.

 

The only thing I can suggest about not showing work is to get him to redo the problem. If the answer is wrong but you can't pinpoint why due to a lack of written work, then he must produce the written work by reworking the problem step by step. Granted it is tedious, but probably the only way to find out if the error came from a calculation mistake (2+2=5) or a problem with the process.

[wapiti]

Thanks! I've been been going to Math Mammoth more. I like that I can pick and choose the areas I need, but is this a sensible idea?:confused: Should I be doing something else?

 

For shoring up weaknesses in arithmetic such as decimals and fractions, yes, this is a very sensible idea.

 

FWIW, if that works for him, there are also some prealgebra topics covered nicely in MM6, such as ratios, conversions and probability and statistics. To those, I'd add instruction on square roots and the pythagorean theorem from another source. Note that MM also has a prealgebra worksheet packet (gold), though the worksheets do not contain instruction, just some basic practice.

[Mandy in TN]

Sit and do the work with him. Demonstrate exactly the amount of written work you expect to see. If he doesn't show his work, refuse to grade it and have him do it again.

 

After this if he still cannot demonstrate a mastery of decimals and fractions, I agree with others who have said that you should stop and use Key to or something before moving on.

 

Mandy

[Elysian]

Ok, I think it sounds like he needs practice in two things: setting out work correctly, and checking it over carefully for mistakes.

 

I suggest you pick one type of problem, either the fractions or decimals one and do the following:

 

Day 1:

 

1) You show him an example (or do it in front of him) of EXACTLY how you want him to set his working out.

 

2) You ask him to do JUST ONE calculation PERFECTLY, setting out the working exactly as you did.

 

3) If there are any mistakes, ask him to correct them - show him how, if necessary. It's about quality, not quantity. When he has it perfect, cheer, praise him for working hard, and stop with maths for the day.

 

Day 2:

 

1) You show him ONE calculation that you have done (the same kind as the previous day) with all the working set out perfectly, BUT you make a deliberate mathematical mistake somewhere.

 

2) His job is to find where Mom went wrong. This teaches the really important skill of checking work over. It's much easier to practice by trying to find Mom's mistakes than your own :001_smile:

 

3) When he has rewritten the whole answer correctly, cheer, praise him for working hard and stop maths for the day.

 

Repeat the above on alternate days until he gets it. Then move on to the second kind of calculation.

 

This might throw up some underlying problem that is causing him difficulties - like say if he is shaky on his multiplication tables. In that case, you can take some time to practice that skill for a while and come back to decimals/fractions afterwards.

 

Hope that helps! Good luck.

[Trilliums]

I highly recommend he makes an account at khanacademy.org and starts on their knowledge web practice problems from the very beginning. Yes, it starts with addition, but it moves quickly. This is free and was effective for my son who was floundering with algebra. He worked up greater comfort in dealing with fractions, decimals, etc. The nice thing about it is that it covers all the basics in a systematic manner. If your son has the concept down, he can quickly move onto a new concept after jsut a few problems. If he can't work through the problems, he can go to watch the videos suggested.

[Elysian]

:iagree:

[mumto2]

Have you considered the LOF fractions and decimals books. Key to is also good. Because you write in the books DS is slightly better at showing work. Also one problem is always done. Have him follow that format for work.

[Haiku]

multiplying decimals, adding fractions.

 

Maybe you could have him work through the LOF Fractions and Decimals books, since he enjoys LOF.

 

The other issue is that no matter how many times I tell him HE NEVER SHOWS HIS WORK.:banghead:

 

This one is easy. Mark every problem where he hasn't show his work wrong and make him redo them. On his own time. After school, when he'd like to be playing/doing whatever he does.

 

Tara

[letsplaymath]

... no matter how many times I tell him HE NEVER SHOWS HIS WORK.:banghead: So, more often than not his answers are wrong, but not far off. I have no idea what he's doing, he can't really explain, it all just seems so convuluted ...

 

I am clearly in the minority here, but I think getting stressed out over a 12yo (especially a boy) not showing his work is like the king who stood on shore and commanded the tide not to come in.

 

Your real problem is that he is making a lot of mistakes and can't explain what he is doing. The mistakes may be due to plain carelessness, or to pre-adolescent mental fugue, or to deep gaps in his understanding. How can you tell? The only way I know to really find out what your student understands and doesn't understand is to do the work with him: Try Buddy Math.

 

My recommendation would be to get the targeted worksheets on the subjects that seem his weakest (like the Math Mammoth workbooks) and sit down together. Alternate problems buddy-style down the page. Don't make him do anything that you don't do. When you work your problem, model the type of explanation you want from him.

 

When he works a problem, if you don't understand what he's doing, ask him to explain again -- and here's something important: Listen carefully! Often our children think differently from the way we think, so just the fact that he does it differently does not in itself mean he's wrong. ALL of my children have done things differently than me, and I have learned a lot by trying to understand their point of view.

 

(Yes, even about math. People think it's cut-and-dried, but it's not! There are many different, valid ways to approach almost any problem. For example: Mental Addition. Or for a more recent example: these two posts.)

 

If/when your son makes a mistake, try asking Socratic questions to get him to rethink the problem.

 

And on the chance that pre-adolescence is part of his problem, be prepared for temper tantrums over mistakes and especially over being corrected. I personally have trouble being patient with such tantrums, but I've learned that my impatience only makes it worse. I went through it myself at that age, didn't you? Whenever my daughter hits a really bad tantrum, we just put the math up. Everything's usually fine when we come back to the same math problem fresh the next day.

[Jamee]

 

And on the chance that pre-adolescence is part of his problem, be prepared for temper tantrums over mistakes and especially over being corrected. I personally have trouble being patient with such tantrums, but I've learned that my impatience only makes it worse. I went through it myself at that age, didn't you? Whenever my daughter hits a really bad tantrum, we just put the math up. Everything's usually fine when we come back to the same math problem fresh the next day.

 

This is a MAJOR part of my frustration. I'll try to work with him, explain how to do a problem, try to figure out what he's done and HUGE meltdown follows. Prior to changing to Fred, he'd turn in his assignments with a horrible attitude, and claim they're all wrong before I could even correct them, throw the fit, and we're no better off. Another issue is that Dad is the "math teacher" not Mom; Dad has been deployed this year and won't be home until sometime in August. Mom "doesn't know" how to teach math.:glare:

 

I think I'll continue with the Math Mammoth and check out Kahn Academy. I've heard good things about it, but have not been there yet. Unfortunately, he's already done Fractions and Decimals and Percents, and there seem to be larger retention problems than what we first suspected.

 

I do think showing work is important, as does Dad and Oma--also a math teacher. Since we pulled him from school, he seemed to believe math had do be done mentally. Not sure what the school was doing, but hubby sees it in his classrooom as well (when he's not playing Navy:D).

 

Appreciate all the advice and suggestions. Off to research some more. I think I'll meet less resistance with the MM. His brother has been working on those worksheets as well to help fill his gaps, in addition to doing Fred Apples. If they're both doing it, it's "fair", right?:tongue_smilie:

[Jamee]

Try Buddy Math.

 

 

OMG! Your math blog is fantastic! I sent the link to my husband, I'm sure he'll enjoy reading through it.

[Trish]

I agree with Holly about the "Key To" series -- this has been a lifesaver on particular topics that the kids don't quite get, or retain, or have enough practice on. Everything is VERY clearly explained, and by the time they've done a few of those exercises they feel like experts! Also it comes broken down into separate booklets, so you don't have to focus on all the areas, just the ones giving you the most trouble. (or you can do them all and become Fractions Expert!) Much as I love Fred and his Life, this is more of a fun supplement for us, but it doesn't have the repetition needed to gain mastery if a child is struggling with a concept. (I also love how Fred just teaches things about life that are fun to know, in subjects having nothing to do with math)

 

I have trouble with BOTH my boys on showing work. So far I've let it slide with only occasional re-dos if they're getting stuff, but next year the hammer is coming down! It will be "wrong" if I don't see the work. (that's because we're tackling algebra next year, and I can't possibly figure out where anyone went wrong if I don't see work) Hubby/Principal is backing me up, in fact, he suggested it!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

DS12 has been doing Saxon since we started homeschooling two years ago. We kind of gave it up for a bit last month because he was stressed out and not really getting anywhere, so we are now doing LOF Pre Algebra with Biology which he LOVES. The problem is that he still doesn't seem to have a grasp of what I think are some of the basics: multiplying decimals, adding fractions. I'm at a loss on how to get through with him on this.

 

The other issue is that no matter how many times I tell him HE NEVER SHOWS HIS WORK.:banghead: So, more often than not his answers are wrong, but not far off. I have no idea what he's doing, he can't really explain, it all just seems so convuluted.

 

Any advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated, especially as we head into the summer. They have always done "summer work" so it's not a new concept, and I'd like him to be up to speed by the start of the fall.

 

One of the things that I've had to hammer into my kids is that I'm not very impressed if they know how do to most of a problem, cut corners on details and then get it wrong.

 

I usually give zero points to wrong answers that don't have enough work. Or that ended up wrong because they couldn't read their own handwriting or because they weren't orderly and lost track of what they were doing.

 

In fact, I've been known to assign 3-5 similar problems for every wrong answer without work shown. I tell them that if there is no work, I have no way of beginning to address the error in their understanding.

 

One thing you might do is assign him a solid block of Khan Academy or Alcumus every day for a while. Those online practice sets require that you do the work on scratch paper and then just enter the answer. An answer that is close but wrong will just be Wrong. Which will help to underscore the idea that close just isn't enough.

 

One other thing that I've told my kids is that math is often part of a conversation between scientists and engineers. It is therefore crucial that others are able to follow your work. That is a necessary step of certifying that your discovery is right or wrong.

 

When all else fails, I tell them the story of the Mars explorer that crashed because the two teams developing it were not working in the same units (one used metric and the other English Standard) and they didn't think to double check this. The angle for orbit or descent was totally wrong. Details do matter.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think there is a perception among many kids that age that if they are "good at math" or "good students" then they must be able to do all sorts of math in their heads.

 

And while I hope my kids can do things like multiplication facts automatically, that's not my goal with more difficult or complicated tasks or problems.

 

I can see cutting him slack about missing dad. We were often not at our best when dh had been gone for a long time. But that isn't excuse for a tantrum about math or for disrespect.

 

I would suggest that you not make it a battle of wills, but try to keep your voice low and calm and just explain that the marked problems are wrong and he needs to redo them.

 

And I do also like the idea of walking through some problems with him to demonstrate the level of detail that you expect in the problem solving.

[letsplaymath]

OMG! Your math blog is fantastic! I sent the link to my husband, I'm sure he'll enjoy reading through it.

Thank you for the encouraging words! :001_smile:

[Jamee]

OK, Khan Academy seems to be a hit. Who knew the computer was so much wiser than Mom.:tongue_smilie: He's showing his work, he was able to go back and correct his Bridge, and watched a few videos or parts there of. I think this will be a huge asset to our homeschool. THANK YOU!